Docking and dew clawing, vet in the London area?

[wrenside]

Hello everyone, I'm back! My old username was workingcocker and my name is mary.
Some of you will know that I have a little red working cocker bitch called Bella. She has turned into a fine young lady and is a real pleasure to take shooting, she's 2 and a half. I am planning on a litter and the pups will need docking and dew clawing. However, I cannot find a london based vet who will do the procedure. I think that they all assume that london based dogs aren't used for working, which is completely untrue. I would hate to see the pups left undocked and dew clawed because my Bella is very waggy and dives into hard cover very fast, I feel if she hadn't been docked as a pup then her tail would most definitely have been broken many times by now. Also working cockers turn at such speed and so tightly that again, if the dew claws were left intact they'd be sure to tear down the back of the leg and cause a lot of suffering and lameness to the dog.

If anyone knows a London based vet who is experienced and understanding about docking and dew clawing for working dogs, please contact me with their details. This is very important to me because the pups will be top class, driven working cockers. If I can't find a London based vet then I will have to take Bella to whelp up in Cumbria were we have an experienced vet who is happy to do the docking and D/C, however this will be very inconvienient for me and also will be very stressful for bella when she's heavily pregnant. 

I have tried to contact the London cockers club working section but have recieved no reply concerning docking friendly vets.

Any advice welcomed

Best wishes Mary

PS: I am only looking so late to find a London based pro docking vet because my usual London vet after having said he'd be happy to dock and dew claw working pups, has now decided that he doesn't want to risk it because he said he finds the docking law so confusing and un clear. I don't blame him, I think it's a terribly confusing and badly written bill.

PPS: This will be our first litter, but we are very well researched, and have other experienced breeders supporting us. Bella has also been eye tested and has had a thorough MOT by our local vet, she is also in her prime and is very toned and fit.

[Colin]

Have you contacted the CDB ? They may be able to put you in touch with a vet in London.

http://www.cdb.org/

[wrenside]

Hi Colin,
 you know I've been racking my brains for about a week on how to find a pro docking vet in London and in my searches I've been on the Council for docked breeds website many times and yet I never thought to contact them 
Thankyou so much.
I've just sent them an email and hopefully they'll be able to direct me to a nice, local vet who's experienced at this procedure. Just shows a problem shared is a problem halved, and hopefully in this case solved! 

Thanks once again, you're a star

Mary

[Penel]

I take it you've got a waiting list of working homes for all the puppies to go to then, otherwise you're unlikely to find a vet willing to do those procedures.

[Tasha]

and you have to prove they are going to working homes as of 1st april.  The council of docked breed website refused to provide any details of a vet to one of my friends whose vet will now no longer do the procedure.  I hope you have better luck.

[Jane S]

The CDB have indicated they will no longer be providing a vet referral service and many of their pro-docking vets have said they will not dock after the new law comes into effect anyway (according to a survey they did)

[wrenside]

Hello all,
 
Yes, everyone on our waiting list either shoots regularly, works on shoots as beaters every season or are in the gamekeeping profession. I wouldn't let a pup go to anyone who wasn't going to train them up for a working life.

Could anyone clarify what the evidence I need to gather to prove working homes for the pups would be? What proof is accepted? 

Unfortunately DCB can't help me, as Jane said, they are no longer doing vet referral.

The search continues..

Best wishes

Mary

[Jane S]

The regulations on the docking of working dogs are being reviewed by the Lords on the 27th March. You can find a copy of these Regulations in a pdf file on the CDB website - it includes the evidence a breeder will need to supply to a vet in order for a litter to be docked (assuming these regulations are approved by the Lords this time but they may not be)

[wrenside]

Thankyou Jane,
I'm sure that I can provide at least 3 of the 8 acceptable types of evidence, so that's made me feel a lot better. Lets hope that the house of lords approves these regulations on the 27th. Now 3 days of anxious waiting to see what happens!

Thanks again

Best wishes

Mary

[PippaMattinson]

I live on the  Hampshire/Surrey border, and have two vets within 10 miles who dock and fully intend to continue docking working gundogs and terriers.   The confusion over the docking bill is not confined to breeders,  the vets are somewhat confused too.

The CDB have indicated they will no longer be providing a vet referral service and many of their pro-docking vets have said they will not dock after the new law comes into effect anyway

The council of docked breeds have put out some confusing information lately, including a not entirely accurate report that the house of lords was blocking the exemption for working gundogs..  The best source of accurate news at the moment seems to be BASC.  http://www.basc.org.uk/content/tail_docking_and_working_
I believe they are also trying to assemble a database of pro-docking vets

Basically the CDB was funded by the show fraternity and will no longer be able to provide financial support for vets threatened with action from the RCVS because their working dog members are not sufficiently numerous


My vet however,  is fairly positive that the muddles will be sorted out and  the legislation will be workable and not too restrictive. He says the RCVS are in fact climbing down as it becomes clear they can no longer oppose a procedure sanctioned by the government ( ie docking of working dogs)  He is also confident you will not have to prove that your puppies will all be worked,  only that they are of a type intended for work,  and that you work your own  dogs.  Evidence of that might be a shotgun certificate or statement from a gamekeeper/shoot manager.

Mary
We are about 50 minutes drive from London  -  if you cannot find a nearer vet (and BASC may be able to help you there) I can put you in touch if you pm me.  He may even be willing to drive to you if you reimburse him for his journey.

Pippa

[wrenside]

Pippa thankyou, I will pm you ASAP.

Mary xx

[Penel]

I would hope you DO have to prove that your puppies are all going to working homes, otherwise puppies are having their tails cut off unnecessarily.

[PippaMattinson]

I would hope you DO have to prove that your puppies are all going to working homes, otherwise puppies are having their tails cut off unnecessarily

I share your sentiments.   I for one do not support cosmetic docking at all.

However, as I understand it,  the problems here are with the workability of such legislation.   The vet cannot guarantee what will happen to puppies once he has docked their tails,  only that they are of a type to be worked and that the breeders have given evidence that they  are working their own dogs.   Even the breeder cannot guarantee what will happen to the puppy once it is sold,  however diligent they are in assessing and filtering prospective purchasers.

The only person who could offer any guarantee that a puppy will be worked would be the eventual prospective owner,  and at two or three days old when puppies are docked, so many things can change.   Even if the whole litter is pre-booked,   people sometimes change their mind or their circumstances may change unpredictably.   The final owners at eight weeks are not always the exact same people as the prospective owners at three days. 

The whole thing is very complicated.  Hopefully a workable solution will be arrived at.

Pippa

[Tori]

There is also another problem arrising regarding the tail docking of working pups in that when the vet does dock working puppies they have to sign a document stating that they have suffient evidence to prove that they are for working only.  In doing this they obviously have identified themselves......The RVC still ban all their vets from doing this and therefore the is big chances of the vet being struck off as they have to be registered with the RCV to practice

[wrenside]

Hey Tori, indeed a lot of the vets that I've called in the hope that they will dock have said that the reason they're not prepared to dock is because of the RCV and it's persistence at not allowing its vets to dock at all, even though working dogs are supposed to be exempt. Police and army spaniels are still being docked by vets though, so clearly there must be a certain level of hipocracy within the RCV about its views on docking and turning a blind eye.
Anyway, Bella is going to be mated on Sunday and I'm going to have a long chat with the stud owners about where they get their litters docked and what they think I should do etc...

If anyone can recommend a vet to me then please pm or email me, as I'd really appreciate any help and support in this matter.

Thanks again

Mary