Author Topic: Gundog training Long Line methods?  (Read 6510 times)

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Offline caro

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Re: Gundog training Long Line methods?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 11:06:30 AM »
Thanks Coco,

I know I couldnt do this to her.  I have written a note to the gundog trainer and my friend from work (who recommended him to me) is going to put it through his door this evening.  She didn't approve of this method either and is pleased that I am not going through with it.  I feel a whole lot better now  :D
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Offline Millomite

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Re: Gundog training Long Line methods?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 01:12:08 PM »
When we first got Fern I was given a number of a man who had cockers and he said about newspapers, he also said to walk with a tennis racket swaying left and right at your side and bop them with it if they try and get in front of you.  He also said he picks his up like a handbag!  He offered for us to take Fern over but we didn't  ph34r for obvious reasons!

I use a small bit of bamboo in a similar way to the tennis racket. If she goes too far forward she gets a tap on the nose and moves back. Trained both my dogs to walk to heel using this method. The cane is not swung strongly, simply by my walking motion so it isn't going to hurt her.

IMO there is nothing wrong with picking a dog up by the scruff of their neck to lift them over fences etc. Fair enough I wouldn't try this with my labrador but Amber weighs about 8-9 kg so it is easy to do and it doesn't hurt her. So much s that when we approach a fence she will stand up with her paws on the fence waiting for me to pick her up using this technique.

Offline pupdaddy

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Re: Gundog training Long Line methods?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 07:34:58 PM »
Our gundog trainer made the point that dogs do need to be lifted on a shoot occasionally (although I've yet to find a fence that Jarvis can't get through). He was demonstrating how you should be able to check a dog over in case of injury, including looking inside his mouth. Jarvis bit him, good and proper! Reading this, I'm not sure if his methods are acceptable - we'll find out this Sunday at our first group lesson
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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Gundog training Long Line methods?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 09:06:50 PM »
I use a small bit of bamboo in a similar way to the tennis racket. If she goes too far forward she gets a tap on the nose and moves back. Trained both my dogs to walk to heel using this method.

I have thought about this particular comment a lot today - trying to work out WHY it is so opposed to the way I feel, and I think I have finally sussed it out  ;)

I enjoy training my dogs as an activity on it's own merits - it is not something that I see as a necessary requirement with a specific purpose or outcome  ;)

Training itself is a leisure activity for me, and so the challenge for me is training using positive methods, that do not discomfort or stress my dog, because I don't have any ambition to achieve an "end product".   I am also aware that as I am an amateur dog trainer, then using only positive training methods is less risky - the use of aversives needs far more skill and experience than I have and if I were to use them, I run the risk of harming or distressing my dog  :-\

I understand that working dogs - be they guide dogs, police dogs, gundogs - are trained to serve a purpose by experienced trainers; even those dogs which are primarily pets but are worked part-time are trained in order to do something else.  Those trainers are more experienced in the use of aversives and their aim is to create a dog with a specific range of trained behaviour in the shortest possible time in order to allow the dog to become useful, in terms of work, as soon as possible  ;)

 But for me, there is no goal in mind - I might decide to try and teach a specific behaviour, or trick - but  there is no ultimate purpose to that, or time scale, it is fun and enjoyable, and if it doesn't work, then I can always move onto something else  ;)
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Re: Gundog training Long Line methods?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 09:26:17 PM »
I use a small bit of bamboo in a similar way to the tennis racket. If she goes too far forward she gets a tap on the nose and moves back. Trained both my dogs to walk to heel using this method.

I have thought about this particular comment a lot today - trying to work out WHY it is so opposed to the way I feel, and I think I have finally sussed it out  ;)

I enjoy training my dogs as an activity on it's own merits - it is not something that I see as a necessary requirement with a specific purpose or outcome  ;)

Training itself is a leisure activity for me, and so the challenge for me is training using positive methods, that do not discomfort or stress my dog, because I don't have any ambition to achieve an "end product".   I am also aware that as I am an amateur dog trainer, then using only positive training methods is less risky - the use of aversives needs far more skill and experience than I have and if I were to use them, I run the risk of harming or distressing my dog  :-\

I understand that working dogs - be they guide dogs, police dogs, gundogs - are trained to serve a purpose by experienced trainers; even those dogs which are primarily pets but are worked part-time are trained in order to do something else.  Those trainers are more experienced in the use of aversives and their aim is to create a dog with a specific range of trained behaviour in the shortest possible time in order to allow the dog to become useful, in terms of work, as soon as possible  ;)

 But for me, there is no goal in mind - I might decide to try and teach a specific behaviour, or trick - but  there is no ultimate purpose to that, or time scale, it is fun and enjoyable, and if it doesn't work, then I can always move onto something else  ;)

I will just say one thing first, no one I know with a part time working dog that uses their dog to participate in their hobby trains it the shortest possible time to allow the dog to become useful  ;)

I will admit that some and I add some (minority) will put minimal training in with a dog and use it possibly younger than anyone else and Willie who I live with is one of those. He does NOT use any cruel harsh methods with his dogs in the slighest but as he is busy most of the time he does not have the luxury of having the spare time to train like most of us. His dogs work fantastically at shoots and although not perfect tend to get away with minor mistakes as they are the keepers dogs and he is the boss  :shades:

I have tried many ways of training through the years and I have tried a thin leafy stick with Sweepie as an experiment when trying to get her to walk to heel by just waving it infront of her when she tried to advance too far, but that lasted all of 2 attempts and the idea was binned. If I knew she was of a nervous disposition I would never have tried it, but I did and it didnt work for me and I certainly will never try it on any of my dogs again as it just isnt needed.

I dont think any of us can really negatively comment on each others dog training as I am a firm believer if it works for you and your dog. The only thing that would get me up in arms is if the dog is being punished/battered or abused then Id be the first to jump in with both feet.  ;)

Edited to add: I have been known to knock a man flat on his back after taking his temper and frustration out on his dog and I certainly would not think twice about doing it again  ;) I cant stand harsh methods and the sooner people realise that not all working dogs are harshly treated the happier I will be  ;)