Boarding school

[supaspaniel]

. After reading this, a lot of my worries have been answered but the two remaining reasons are:-
I think she will come back a different dog; like some of her cheekiness and playfullness will go and she'll come back a working 'machine' 
They say if the dog is trained by a man, she will only listen to a man and vice versa. She will be trained by a man, I am not a man!

Definately not in Dashs' case He came back as the same Dash, but obedient and grown up I suppose...which will happen trained or not..he still knows how to try it on tho...he still stands on his hind legs and does a funny thing with his front paws when he gets excited...goes mad and snaps at water coming out of a hose pipe..he still jumps up into Matts arms..even if Matt didin't ask him to
I know Matt and I have split now, but i took Dash out for walks..he did as i asked..admittedly I didn't ask him to work as such, but he responded to me ...but he was Matts dog and didn't take any notice of me while Matt was around ..just like my dogs didn't take any notice of Matt while I was around

[Nicola]

Is it possible to obtain this kind training in a weekly/daily class environment, or even a residential arrangement in which you go along with your dog for intensive training, like some obedience schools?   

I don't know of any gundog training schools like this (and I have looked and asked around believe me). To get the kind of training and exposure Alfie is having now with me there I'd basically have to either live next door to the trainer or else stay at their house. Plus like I said, I know and trust Charlie and his methods and would rather Alfie was with him than both of us with someone I don't know.

What Cazzie says about taking a dog away from distractions etc. is also totally right. Her post sums it up really well 

Nic you HAVE done brilliant with Alfie    As for him being with Charlie - well what can i say he is a fab person and knows his stuff and trains with positive methods - i wouldn't hesitate leaving Fern with him at all unlike some 

Thanks hun 

[Nicola]

Right now the OH wants to send Wherry to school but I'm not too keen on the idea for a number of reasons, not least missing her. After reading this, a lot of my worries have been answered but the two remaining reasons are:-
I think she will come back a different dog; like some of her cheekiness and playfullness will go and she'll come back a working 'machine' 
They say if the dog is trained by a man, she will only listen to a man and vice versa. She will be trained by a man, I am not a man!

Anyone have any advice in relation to those two concerns? Thanks

I'm not a man either (last time I checked anyway  ) and Alfie is being trained by one but I don't think this will have an effect. My Stepdad trains working springers but they still work perfectly well for me and my Mum as well. I also know that if Charlie thought that this would be an issue then he would not let me waste money by having Alfie stay with him   

On the 'machine' thing I have seen enough dogs which are in for training with Charlie to know that they are most definitely still cheeky, fun loving, normal dogs who still sometimes try it on but who on the whole worship their trainer and happily do what they are asked to do. This is why I would not send any of my dogs to a trainer who I do not know and trust though. Because I know Charlie's own dogs plus some of those he has in for training PLUS he is my Rodaidh's breeder and kept him for this first 6 months I am not worried about his methods or about him 'breaking' Alfie's spirit.

As for me I miss him terribly, this is the first time that I have been at home without him for 16 months but I really truly believe that I am dong the best thing for him which is the most important thing.

[AnnieM]

If you don't mind my asking, how much does this cost?  Just curious and do they do this for non-working dogs, ie obedience training.

[Cob-Web]

If you don't mind my asking, how much does this cost?  Just curious and do they do this for non-working dogs, ie obedience training.

I have seen places advertised where you can send a pet dog to be trained in basic obedience, although I am suspicious of the training methods employed    The positive dog trainers that I have read/know emphasis the relationship between the handler and the dog, and I don't know how this can be achieved if you send the dog somewhere else to be trained by someone else  There are also reports of dogs that have been sent to these places, are well behaved for a week or two after they come back, but then revert to the original behaviour because the handling/training is not maintained 

What appeals to me are the intensive training camps that you can go on with your dog...I would love to do one of these, if only I could get over my horror of camping -  although I suspect I will end up going to YKC Training Camp in a year or two with lil'bit 
In the US they do it much better and run events in conference centres with hotel accommodation for dogs and owners 

[Jan/Billy]

These dogs are bred to do a job and have to be trained to a good standard and if not there is no point in having a working dog.

Exactly which is why I said there are differences between working dog owners & non working dog owners outlook on training.
I do understand though that those with working dogs have to put the "job" of the dog first, but for me the desire to work my dog wouldn't be enough to warrant this kind of regime. Billy is a pet, nothing more, but we are all different  

While the dog is away for training they are focused 100% on what they are doing and are taken out of the home enviroment away from loads of other distractions. It is not possible in some cases to have the dog focused all the time. In a kennel enviroment the dogs have a sharper outlook and pay attention more as less time is spent molley coddling them throughout the day.

Now you see I know for an absolute fact that with Billy he would NOT focus better away from home. He's a real home lad and would be too home sick.  He's a real softie  

Am not critising those of you who send their dogs away, am just saying it would never be for me, so guess I'll never have a working dog  

[AnnieM]

If you don't mind my asking, how much does this cost?  Just curious and do they do this for non-working dogs, ie obedience training.

I have seen places advertised where you can send a pet dog to be trained in basic obedience, although I am suspicious of the training methods employed    The positive dog trainers that I have read/know emphasis the relationship between the handler and the dog, and I don't know how this can be achieved if you send the dog somewhere else to be trained by someone else  There are also reports of dogs that have been sent to these places, are well behaved for a week or two after they come back, but then revert to the original behaviour because the handling/training is not maintained 

What appeals to me are the intensive training camps that you can go on with your dog...I would love to do one of these, if only I could get over my horror of camping -  although I suspect I will end up going to YKC Training Camp in a year or two with lil'bit 
In the US they do it much better and run events in conference centres with hotel accommodation for dogs and owners 

Please don't get me wrong, I would never send mine away for training.  I was just curious as to whether they did this for non-working dogs too and whether the price is comparable to say a normal dog training course where you take your dogs along each week.
I am satisfied with my dogs level of training and enjoy doing it with them, so wouldn't use one personally, but I can see why working dog owners would.
I think the idea of going along for a weeks worth of intensive training with your dog, is a good one though.

[Nicola]

If you don't mind my asking, how much does this cost?  Just curious and do they do this for non-working dogs, ie obedience training.

It's £100 per week and Charlie will take in non working dogs if he has the time and space for them.

[Nicola]

While the dog is away for training they are focused 100% on what they are doing and are taken out of the home enviroment away from loads of other distractions. It is not possible in some cases to have the dog focused all the time. In a kennel enviroment the dogs have a sharper outlook and pay attention more as less time is spent molley coddling them throughout the day.

Now you see I know for an absolute fact that with Billy he would NOT focus better away from home. He's a real home lad and would be too home sick.  He's a real softie  

See that's what you think but you take them away from their home and the influence of their owner for a few days and chances are you'll have a different dog. They are a lot less loyal than we like to think, Alfie is very spoiled and a real mummy's boy, he's very attached to me and he howled like a banshee when I left him yesterday but when I rang Charlie this morning he was out in the paddock charging around with a pack of other dogs happy as larry 

[Jan/Billy]

See that's what you think but you take them away from their home and the influence of their owner for a few days and chances are you'll have a different dog.

Nope! He misses his home  

He's not bad  staying with my dad but kennels are an absolute no no. He refuses to eat & becomes withdrawn   It took him days to get back to his oldself again when we picked him up.  This is why I'll never use kennels again as they just don't suit him, he's too soft  .  

Each dog is different though, we all know our dogs best 

[Cob-Web]

See that's what you think but you take them away from their home and the influence of their owner for a few days and chances are you'll have a different dog.

But that's why I don't understand how this type of training can work - once the dog is back home, then they are going to be influenced by their owner and exposed to all those distractions again.......

I thought that one of the principles of modern dog training methods was based on the fact that dogs don't generalise, so they have to be taught the same thing in different places?  Mark referred to it recently:

Some trainers reckon that you need to teach a behaviour in about twenty different locations before it is proofed.
Dogs do not generalise learning well which basically means the learning does not transfer easily from one location to another.
Then you have to train for the small matter of distractions which can be anything in everyday life.

I don't think you can compare the relationship that a working dog has with their their owner/handler to the one a "pet" dog does.....and I don't just mean fieldwork; even highly competitive agility dogs and their owners seem to relate differently; the dog will work for any experienced handler, not just their owner - which I suppose could be seen as being less loyal 

[AnnieM]

If you don't mind my asking, how much does this cost?  Just curious and do they do this for non-working dogs, ie obedience training.

It's £100 per week and Charlie will take in non working dogs if he has the time and space for them.

Wow, that is really reasonable, I had thought it would be much more than that.  Hmmm...... holiday coming up in October, wonder if he'd take 3 of them, it will probably be as cheap as kennels and I would have 3 well behaved dogs when I get home.   

[Nicola]

But that's why I don't understand how this type of training can work - once the dog is back home, then they are going to be influenced by their owner and exposed to all those distractions again.......

I thought that one of the principles of modern dog training methods was based on the fact that dogs don't generalise, so they have to be taught the same thing in different places?  Mark referred to it recently:

Some trainers reckon that you need to teach a behaviour in about twenty different locations before it is proofed.
Dogs do not generalise learning well which basically means the learning does not transfer easily from one location to another.
Then you have to train for the small matter of distractions which can be anything in everyday life.

I don't think you can compare the relationship that a working dog has with their their owner/handler to the one a "pet" dog does.....and I don't just mean fieldwork; even highly competitive agility dogs and their owners seem to relate differently; the dog will work for any experienced handler, not just their owner - which I suppose could be seen as being less loyal 

By the time they're home, if the training has been to a good enough level and the owner carries on the basis which has been laid out for them then the dog should continue to do what is asked of them. What you should get is a dog which has been exposed to different situations (live game in Alfie's case) and which has learned to focus on its handler and do what is asked regardless of what is going on around it. It is up to the owner to then work on this base that has been put in place for them and ensure that these standards are maintained when the dog comes home which should be easier because of the professional input they've had. This isn't a 'no work' option for lazy owners - you still have to put in the effort when your dog comes home but a good sound base should be there for you to work with and you will know what to do so that you do not potentially ruin a good dog.

When I referred to loyalty I didn't necessarily mean pet and working dogs, I meant dogs in general. Look at Tilly - she works but she is first and foremost a pet. She was owned and trained by someone else for the first 2 years of her life yet when people see her with me now they are always shocked to hear that I haven't had her all her life and she's been like that since day one. If this idea of 'oh no (s)he lives for me and will pine away for me' really were true there would be an awful lot of rescue dogs out there who are very miserable in there new homes which isn't the case. Dogs live in the here and now and adapt much better than people to new circumstances.

[Cazzie]

See that's what you think but you take them away from their home and the influence of their owner for a few days and chances are you'll have a different dog.

But that's why I don't understand how this type of training can work - once the dog is back home, then they are going to be influenced by their owner and exposed to all those distractions again.......

I thought that one of the principles of modern dog training methods was based on the fact that dogs don't generalise, so they have to be taught the same thing in different places?  Mark referred to it recently:

Some trainers reckon that you need to teach a behaviour in about twenty different locations before it is proofed.
Dogs do not generalise learning well which basically means the learning does not transfer easily from one location to another.
Then you have to train for the small matter of distractions which can be anything in everyday life.

I don't think you can compare the relationship that a working dog has with their their owner/handler to the one a "pet" dog does.....and I don't just mean fieldwork; even highly competitive agility dogs and their owners seem to relate differently; the dog will work for any experienced handler, not just their owner - which I suppose could be seen as being less loyal 

I think we can compare the relationship a working dog to a pet one has with their owners as ours are first and foremost pets, our working dogs have the beauty of being a pet and having the pleasure of doing what they have been bred to do at an extremely high standard. I chose working breeds so I can work them and divert their natural instincts into something positive. To watch one of my dogs work and to stop and look at me for instructions of what to do next is extremely rewarding it also shows that they are working with me as a team 

[Helen]

each to their own i think

tis a shame so many working cockers are out there now - there aren't enough shoots to go round to cater for each and every dog, so thank doG there are active pet homes for them who will keep them stimulated and happy.  In fact 3 of the shoots that I would have been able to take Jarv on have scaled back this year, so we're unemployed.

I don't think a working cocker who doesn't work is deprived as long as it has an active life (and that includes training and things like agility and gun dog scurrys etc), and I have never considered counting the cost of training and feeding - ultimately my dog is a companion pet and not a tool.

not every working dog will work - and to be brutally honest a lot of non-working working cockers have a far more active and happy life than some working dogs who are effectively only employed 4 months of the year.