Retrieving problem

[kcj]

Hi
Its been a while since i have posting, but i hope you all can give me some tips.  I have had working Cocker's for 10 years now and have worked them in the beating line.
The problem Chips retrieving. He is great on the stop whistle, and gun shoot, but on retrieving game he will go out pick it and drop it about a foot away . He will only hold on to it if the game is still alive.  I have tried with dummies and other retrieving objects but he has little interest in toys.  He will lose interest quickly with the dummies and wants to hunt/flush.  He is also a bit of a worrier and a soft dog. (So practicing is difficult.)  (I have heard that his mother was the same just didn't like dummies)
I have joined the local gun dog club and they are very encouraging, wanting me to enter the field trials, We have entered a few and it was good to see what i need to work on.
Oh Chip is 3 but still young in the head.
Kirsten

[happydog]

I'm absolutely no expert, but have worked springers, before my working cocker(who I didn't work in the end due to illness), but it might be worth trying to tie some 'game skins' to a dummy and work on a retrieve from that at home, away from the shoot, with a treat for a hand retrieve and perhaps a new command at the same time, specifically for game?  My OH always trained his youngsters in this way. Pigeon wings were what he used. Of course in the field I guess he won't be food orientated at all, if my experiences are typical  , but it might help him to get the hang of what you are asking of him.
HTH

[milly]

My 11 month old eventually did the same with canvas dummies, he started with a lovely retrieve, sit and present, then started to put them down a few feet away from me. I bought a rabbit skinned dummy and he loves it, no dropping that one and he's more enthusiastic with it.
Next time we have some rabbits I'm going to save the skins, dry them and sew them onto the canvas dummies, cheaper than buying more rabbit skinned ones.

[kcj]

Hi
Thanks for tips, i plan on trying the dummy in rabbit skin, with treat on retrieve to hand, i will try building it up starting in the house as he is so easily distracted by sent.  We have lots of cats and possums around the garden. This does not help. I hope it all clicks with him, i have found him so different to the bitches i have.  Thanks K
p.s i wll let you know how it goes.

[spanielcrazy]

As he is coming in to you, try taking shuffling steps backward so he has to get in closer. When he's where you want him ask for the release while having your hand at the ready so the bumper or whatever can't hit the ground, 

[Nicola]

Hi Kirsten! Just saw this, how are you getting on on NZ?? Some dogs tend not to find picking canvas dummies very attractive and Cockers can be fussy retrievers anyway which doesn't help either. Chip sounds quite similar to Rodaidh, he's also a 'soft' dog and can go into 'system overload' if I push him too much. The rabbit skin or wings tied to the dummy can help hold their interest and I would also work on his 'hold' command and getting him coming right back to you, a clicker can be really useful for this as you can shape them to release on cue and not before and you can do this in the house before progressing outside. 

He doesn't do it often but if we're out and I can see him starting to look like he's about to lose interest and drop a retrieve the method I generally use with Rodaidh is similar to what spanielcrazy has said, I start running backwards while really encouraging him (he does know a 'hold' command and I keep reinforcing it). I encourage him right up to me and even to jump up on me as if he's in that frame of mind he'd be much more likely to drop whatever he's holding if I asked him to sit. A sitting delivery is nice but even in trials it's not essential, a standing delivery is perfectly acceptable and to get them geed up if they're having issues getting them to jump on you and really praising them before gently taking the dummy can really help. You're probably not doing this but another thing is to not be too urgent taking the dummy off them, praise them first and then ask them to give. If he does drop it, no praise and do a bit of reinforcing of the 'hold' with him stood in front of you before doing any more retrieves.

[milly]

Hi
Thanks for tips, i plan on trying the dummy in rabbit skin, with treat on retrieve to hand, i will try building it up starting in the house as he is so easily distracted by sent.  We have lots of cats and possums around the garden. This does not help. I hope it all clicks with him, i have found him so different to the bitches i have.  Thanks K
p.s i wll let you know how it goes.

Be careful with the treats on retrieving, if he comes to expect a treat it may lead to spitting the dummy.

You're probably not doing this but another thing is to not be too urgent taking the dummy off them, praise them first and then ask them to give. If he does drop it, no praise and do a bit of reinforcing of the 'hold' with him stood in front of you before doing any more retrieves.

I agree with Nicola about taking your time taking the dummy, get down to him and while he's holding it stroke and praise him to reinforce and encourage the hold.

[kcj]

I have been taking your advice and he is fine in the house, i would still like him to hold on to it for longer, as i am not giving him an opportunity to drop it just now, its going to take time. We have our beater day tomorrow,( I'm i right in saying) i should probably keep him away from the retrieving. Kirsten

[kcj]

Hi
Yes NZ has been good, the trialing people are very keen to get new members and especially cockers, There are not that many here, a few up north and none down here in the south. So really want to get people interest in them.
Yes Chip sounds like your Rodaidh, he will loss interest quickly, so a few retrieves a day just now. And he worries to much, you can see him thinking.  But he is still my boy   My gemma is coming on well, a bit too keen at times but i am steadying her up. I would like her to get her nose down more, she air scents a lot.   So how many cockers do you have now? We left Skye (Blue roan) with friends, she loves being the only dog. So just the 4 for us
Kirsten

[DLK]

There are many reason why dogs do not like to bring the dummy or bird back to us.  Unfortunately the reasons are we have trained it into them without knowing we have.

Example 1 we throw out the dummy for our dog and then send the dog, the dog runs out picks the dummy and brings it back.  We praise the dog and take the dummy.

Example 2 our son or daughter have a bag of sweets they come to us and present the bag of sweets, we take them off them and praise them for bringing the sweets.

In the example 1 the dog is thinking the same as your son or daughter on example 2 "hey the last time I took the sweets/dummy they took them off me, Im Not doing that again"

So how to resolve this is find an item that your dog likes, it may be a sock or your best shoe.  Throw is for the dog and then send the dog after a small wait.  When the dog shoots out and picks this item.  Walk off with your back to the dog and dont attempt to take this item from the dog.
Only take the item from the dog when he comes right next to you with it and is walking nice and steady .  When you do take the item get as low as you can even if you have to lay on the floor.  Play with the dog whilst it is holding it and slowly remove the item.  Then praise.
DLK