My Cocker just chased and killed a rabbit

[Martin E]

Hi all,

I've just got back from walking Jack our 4 month old. He has been doing OK with retreiving, but he came across what I can only think was an old and ill rabbit as he got within a metre of it before it moved. Jack then chased him  - I left him to it for about 10 seconds thinking the rabbit would get away, but then he caught it out of sight and killed it. I was calling him back, but of course he was way more interested in what he'd done. I went over and picked him up and moved him well away before I put him down again and he stayed with me for the rest of the walk, but was not at all interested in any dummies I threw out for him. I'm now a bit worried that he won't be at all interested in retreive training with me with dummies and will always be after scent. Has anyone else had a similar experience, or can offer advice on how best to get him concentrated on his retrieve training.

Many thanks,
Martin

[Nicola]

I'd be more concerned with him killing the rabbit than actually chasing it, although if as you say it was old and ill it's possible that the shock got it. I would make sure you watch him from now on though and don't let him get a chance to do this again, I wouldn't be walking him on ground where there's even a chance he's going to find game at his age. The best way to manage this is just to not let it happen, take him to places where you are the most interesting thing there - and make yourself the most interesting thing there! - so that he learns to focus on you for his entertainment.

He was probably still buzzing a bit from the rabbit experience which may explain his subsequent lack of interest in the dummies so again I wouldn't overly worry about that. Take him out again fresh tomorrow and see how he goes then. At just 4 months though I'd be limiting the amount of formal retrieving I'd be expecting him to do anyway, pups that age have the attention span of a gnat and get tired and bored easily. Do plenty of work on basic obedience and getting him bonded with and focussing on you - play with him, talk to him, keep his attention, use food (the only time I use food for training is in the early puppy stage when I dispense treats randomly to them as we go along), roll a tennis ball out for him every now and then, do lots of direction changes etc. Make everything into a game and make it fun and interesting for him. All this will help him learn to keep focussed and interested in you, it'll become a habit for him and then it'll make your job easier once you come to start his proper training as he gets older.

[Martin E]

Nicola,

Many thanks for the comments. I took Jack out again this afternoon for a leg stretch to the local playing fields to do as you suggested - keep him away from game scent for a while. We played some games with an old well scented sock (!!) that he has played with lots before and he was great. I have tended to just get him used to different environments (woods, fields etc) and then occasionally throw something small and light and he loves searching it out and bringing it back to lots of fuss. I'll try and get a photo of the little fella posted as lots of you have done - now is a great time to get his paws muddy and take a camera out......

[cazza]

Martin are you using a plain dummy or one with skin or feathers on

[Martin E]

I'm still very much on a half lb canvas dummy - although Jack doesn't seem to like it very much, so I mostly use old socks, tied up strips of towel etc that I have kept in my pockets for a while to get lots of scent on. This was Jacks first experience with any fur.

[JohnW]

One of our girls Lilly was used a lamping dog by her previous owner, she will run down and kill a rabbit on sight, I no longer train her in field work because of this as she goes into this hunt mode she was trained to do when she scents them. Have you spoken to any local gamekeepers about this I am sure they have a multitude of remedies and solutions to your problem. Unfortunately for me Lilly is very entrenched with her reaction towards rabbits however I am not massively concerned about Lilly as I now have channelled her into Competitive agility which she is excelling in. I would agree with Nicola and steer clear of ground where Game is in abundance. And Seek some advice from a local gamekeeper on how they would deal with this problem, hopefully the outcome won't be nearly as bad as you first feared.  good luck.

[cazza]

as for speaking to a local game keeper - it really depends on what their training is like as a lot I know of do NOT use positive methods, I would be more inclined to locate a gundog trainer

Good luck with it

i'm sure if you PM Nicola with your area she would be able to point you in the direction of a gundog trainer 

[JohnW]

as for speaking to a local game keeper - it really depends on what their training is like as a lot I know of do NOT use positive methods, I would be more inclined to locate a gundog trainer

Good luck with it

i'm sure if you PM Nicola with your area she would be able to point you in the direction of a gundog trainer  

You could say alot of dog trainers dont use positive methods either, I really do get fed up at times on here when somebody tries to shoot down a freindly peice of advice, ALOT of the gamekeepers I have met are fantastic with their dogs granted some arent but please dont try and generalise its not very positive advice and will make the Op even more confused where to turn.  

But as said above you may also try an Experienced Gundog trainer. But you may find a Gamekeeper may have more experience of this problem thats all that I was trying to say. However like everything in life if you dont like the advice given move on until you do. Good luck. 

[Helen]

I agree with John (miracles do happen John  ) some gamekeepers are brilliant with their dogs - so take them as you find them. 

You'll soon know whether you like their methods or not    I for one like working with my local gamekeeper (well I would, he bred my dog and they have a mutual love fest every time they see each other  )

I freaked out when Jarv was 8 months old and proudly trotted towards me with a very large cock pheasant in his gob - fortunately apart from a few missing tail feathers and a big dent to it's pride he was ok and Jarv released to me instantly.  Gives you a bit of a shock though 

[Nicola]

I wouldn't have a problem with speaking to a gamekeeper or a trainer (as long as you agree with their training methods in both cases!) and it never hurts to get a professional opinion if you're worried about something but as this pup is only 4 months old and this was a one-off thing I wouldn't be seeing it as a major problem at this stage. I think as long as you keep him away from gamey ground for the time being and work on his basic training and bond with you as you would with any small pup then you shouldn't have too many problems. If he was an adolescent or adult dog showing entrenched, repeated chasing and killing behaviour then I'd definitely be getting in help but most young pups would instinctively go for something that moves right in front of them and will pick it up, it's instinct, but if you don't let him see live game again until you get him to the proper stage in his training and if the introduction is handled properly when the time comes (as it should be in all cases anyway) I think he'll be fine.

[Colin]

Just a reminder to keep the discussion polite and friendly please. It's inevitable on any forum that people will have different opinions and as long as they are expressed politely (as they were here) it's best not to take it personally. Thanks.

[JohnW]

Just noticed this was answered.

Sorry Colin and Cazza just had a bad day that day with my new business so quite stressed with everything and everyone.   a wee bit touchy that day male time of the month  

I wouldn't have a problem with speaking to a gamekeeper or a trainer (as long as you agree with their training methods in both cases!) and it never hurts to get a professional opinion if you're worried about something but as this pup is only 4 months old and this was a one-off thing I wouldn't be seeing it as a major problem at this stage. I think as long as you keep him away from gamey ground for the time being and work on his basic training and bond with you as you would with any small pup then you shouldn't have too many problems. If he was an adolescent or adult dog showing entrenched, repeated chasing and killing behaviour then I'd definitely be getting in help but most young pups would instinctively go for something that moves right in front of them and will pick it up, it's instinct, but if you don't let him see live game again until you get him to the proper stage in his training and if the introduction is handled properly when the time comes (as it should be in all cases anyway) I think he'll be fine.

I think Nicola says it all, some excellent points.

I agree with John (miracles do happen John   ) some gamekeepers are brilliant with their dogs - so take them as you find them.  

You'll soon know whether you like their methods or not    I for one like working with my local gamekeeper (well I would, he bred my dog and they have a mutual love fest every time they see each other   )

I freaked out when Jarv was 8 months old and proudly trotted towards me with a very large cock pheasant in his gob - fortunately apart from a few missing tail feathers and a big dent to it's pride he was ok and Jarv released to me instantly.  Gives you a bit of a shock though  

Helen Marry me  !!  

[pete19873.5efi]

If your dog has just caught a live bunny at such a young age i would not be too worried, its not unherd of to get the slow pupil on some rabbits quite early to give them a bit more desire to hunt.
At his early age though i would keep him well away from anything live and any area where game sent will be as you must first get him under controll and working for you.
I usualy start the real training (hunting ect) arround 1 year and will intorduce to game arround that thime if the dog is right. 

For now only take him on the local park, let him be a puppy, socalise him with other dogs. he will be off his canvas dummies for a few days but dont be too worried as he will come back to them. considering his age i think the excitment in retreiving is created by the owner using a ball, dummy, old towl, almost anything he loves to play with, do remember its all about fun for the pup, no sit and stays just let him run in like any other pup will do.

[pete19873.5efi]

one last point, if you want to work him and are not sure abut his training go and find a good gun dog trainer and have some one to one lessone, youwill learn far more than attending classes ect.

Don't worry about the bunny it was probally on its last legs if a 4 month old could catch it.