Interesting information to get your dog to heel!

[Dan]

Just thought I would share what I have learnt which for me was the most successful way to get Brodie to heel! Being in the shooting and beating side of things I needed a way to make Brodie heel with out running off and getting to excited seeing other dogs etc so I talked to my dad who is a ame keeper about the most successful way he has used to get his dogs into heel! He replied 'shake a set off keys' this shocked me as I didn't think of this but for some reason dogs dot like the shake of keys so when brodie gets in front of me I say Brodie heel if she doesn't listen I shake the keys an she gets straight back into heel and the same for when I don't want her to go off with other dogs I shake the keys and say Brodie heel up and she will stay with me I tried loads of other things but I don't believe in giving treats all the time so needed something that would work and this does 100% but people have there concerns etc! The thing is you don't touch the dog with the keys to keep them in your hands and shake them when they don't listen first time!

Sorry If there is no punctuation etc and I hope you can understand what I have wrote and i hope this works for you if you give it a go! I will appreciate anyone to put there concerns etc on here also as I have a feeling some people whont believe in it for some reason lol!

Thanks
Dan

[Archie bean]

I would advise against it having seen the negative results aversive methods had on Archie. There's an excellent post here.

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=47409.msg672869#msg672869

[Dan]

What just rattling some keys effects te dog?

To be honest I appreciate your help but my dads dogs are some of the best gun dogs I no and I have seen and his advice I trust and will use to help Brodie get to tere standard and so far she is doing realy well on a shoot a dog NEEDS to be obeediant or they could possible get shot etc! At the end I the day she is lived an happy and that's the main thing but when she will be working next year she need to be safe and I'm willing to try anything to do that!

[redlottie]

We taught ours to heel using a bell in the same way as Dan uses the keys as advised by our gundog trainer.  As Dan said on a shoot to be able to get a dog to stick to your side if you ask them to is essential.

I am not sure rattling keys or a bell to encourage a dog to walk to heal would be classed as an aversive method 

[Helen]

  As Dan said on a shoot to be able to get a dog to stick to your side if you ask them to is essential.

yes it is essential, but you can easily teach your gundog to walk to heel without rattling something to 'get' their attention if they are focused as they should be on you - usually these methods are used because they get quick results.  Mine was taught with just voice and whistle and he is very reliable 

[Top Barks]

I think what you have to think about is why the dog is walking to heel, some folks may not care?
Dogs either do something to avoid punishment or to be rewarded personally i prefer the latter.
The rattling of the keys in this instance sounds like it is either punishing (the dog may not like the sound) or a warning that further punishment is coming and therefore being used as a conditioned punisher. The only problem i have with this is what do you do if the rattle of the keys stops working? What comes next as I can guarantee for some it will.

[Top Barks]

Glad you found a trainer Dan, hope you turn up to their lessons unlike you did with me, sounds like he really knows his stuff

[Dan]

Top barks- I you har any problems pm me I ha a very valid reason I couldn't attend you now that no need to shout ya big mouth out on the forum plus I'm training her myself and had advice from someone that's done it before not everything you say is right things work differently for everyone!

[Dan]

Also it is possible to stop the rattling of the keys once you are confident in your self and your dog that she will listen without Brodie is really good it's the heeling I'm using the keys for!

[jaybee]

IMO, if you can train your dog to walk to heel using positive, reward-based training, why choose to go any other way? Rattling keys is different from something like a shock collar, but I agree with Top Barks; does the key rattling make her walk to heel because she doesn't like it and wants it to stop?

I have no experience of working dogs, so you may choose to ignore the above, but if it is possible to train them without using aversive training (which it must be, as Helen's comment makes clear) then I would choose something positive and reward based every single time.

More 'traditional' (not sure if that's the right word to  use) forms of training might work quickly, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily the best.

[Top Barks]

Also it is possible to stop the rattling of the keys once you are confident in your self and your dog that she will listen without Brodie is really good it's the heeling I'm using the keys for!

Good for you, you obviously really know what you are doing so maybe you could video your exploits so we can all see.

[Dan]

Top barks- no intact I don't REALLY no what im doing I'm not a dog trainer but I love my dog and don't want to see her hurt on a shot day so I'm trying myself to get et into heel she is still over excited with other dogs which is to be expected I'm jut trying methods I have seen my self work if this doesn't Work eventually I'll keep trying new things till it does I'm not goig to give up on something I'm patonate about!

If its not your cuppa tea dont reply I didn't honestly think you would get people like this!!

[jaybee]

Sorry If there is no punctuation etc and I hope you can understand what I have wrote and i hope this works for you if you give it a go! I will appreciate anyone to put there concerns etc on here also as I have a feeling some people whont believe in it for some reason lol!

Thanks
Dan

Dan,

I don't think anyone is being rude, you asked for people's concerns and opinions and that is what people have provided.

Don't take it as a personal attack, because it isn't. You know what a supportive community this is.

[Helen]

Top barks- I you har any problems pm me I ha a very valid reason I couldn't attend you now that no need to shout ya big mouth out on the forum plus I'm training her myself and had advice from someone that's done it before not everything you say is right things work differently for everyone!

Yes, I agree pm'ing would be better in this case but there is no need for rude comments either thanks Dan.  Please keep your comments civil.

[Dan]

I'm not jaybee but people go on as if everyone should no what there doing! I'm just trying new ways off possibly training Brodie to the best of my ability! Not everyone is perfect and I don't want people to start thinking I 'punish' my dog or out because I rattle some keys!

There is some really nice and supportive people on here who I have personally talked to for information but there is the odd few that no better!