Should i join this agility class?

[Sarah1985]

Hello

Im new to the forum but often come to read all your threads and posts and they are incredibly helpful

I own 2 cockers. One is a year and the other is 15 weeks. Now my oldest is old enough Ive started to look around for an agility class to start taking him to.

I went to see a class yesterday and was hoping his class would be right for us but Im not convinced. The instructors were really nice and used positve training methods so it seemed like I was on to a winner but it had 2 big problems

Firstly; I noticed that some of the people taking part were using very harsh punishment methods. One woman was shouting at her dog for missing a jump (this was a beginners class so I would have thought that would be expected) and I noticed another guy jabbing his dog in its side whenever it tried to say hello to the other dogs that were waiting to take part. However the instructors didnt say anything to them about them using harsh punishments. At the various obedience classes, flyball and rally obedeince classes there is a basic rule of not using any sort of physical punishment with the dogs and thats how i like it. It was uncomfortable for me to watch from the spectators bit, never mind standing right next to them like i would if i was taking part. Whiles the instructors werent instructing people to do these things to their dogs they were letting it happen

Secondly. I noticed that they werent adjusting the jumps to reflect the dog taking part. A lab jumped the same jump as a mini dashund and the jumps were rather large for such a dog so small.. Shouldnt they have been adjusting the jumps to suit the dog? From flyball I assumed the norm was for the jumps to be adjusted to suit the dogs size. Is this the case with agility?

The agility club is quite new so I could put it down to them still finding their feet but the lack of knowledge and rules concerns me. But its the only class in the local area, so its this or nothing. Would you take your dog??

Any advise would be much appreciated

[dogsgalore]

Don't know anything about agility clubs, but it doesn't sound like it is particularly well run.  If you feel uncomfortable then I think it is definitely worth looking for somewhere else.  I think I would find it difficult not to say something to those people who were being unkind to their dogs!

[Ben's mum]

thats a tricky one!  Our agility club is similar to the one you describe and there are owners (and trainers  ) that I think behave harshly or inappropriatly with their dogs. They also have some really old fashioned ideas about dominance and showing your dog who is boss  
However, if you are a confident owner who is used to doing stuff eg flyball with your dog, then you won't be swayed by other peoples methods.  I find it upsetting to watch new people arrive who then take on some bad ideas by watching others.

On the positive there are some excellent trainers and owners at our club and hopefully there will be at this class you visited.  I like to watch and learn from those that are good.  I also like to think that some of the new people joiningthe club pick up good points from the more knowlagble and skilled members (not me some of the others  )

I don't suppose the perfect agility club is out there as there are not enough to go round.  if you can stick to your guns about how you want your dogs to be treated then it might be worth a try, you can always leave if you don't feel the benfits outweigh the down sides.

Good luck

[Uli]

Maybe you can join and tell them what does make you feel uncomfortable. I would always try to talk to people in situations like those you described.

[jla]

Ref the jump heights it might depend on the experience of the dog.  An older Dachsie could very well be jumping the same height as a young lab until the lab is old enough to jump their proper height.

Personally I would probably say that if you felt uncomfortable don't join.  If you aren't sure you'll give that vibe down to your dog which you don't want to do!   

Good luck in finding a class that you are happy with.

[6thSense]

I would be wary to be honest, but you can't judge a club by a few of it's members. It's a shame though that the tutors say nothing. In my experience a dog is much more responsive to positivity than negativity. I am taking a break from Agility at the mo,but at the club that I have been going to didn't allow any sort of punishment what so ever. If the dog went wrong it was more likely to be the handlers fault and not the dog. We were even discouraged from saying no or as I had a habit uh ah if we went wrong. It's difficult to say with the jump height. A fully grown lab would definitely be jumping a larger height than a min dachshund. It could have been on a low height for both if the lab was young or in training and not jumping the larger height yet, but a min dachshund would be jumping a very low height. I think you should trust you instincts. If your unsure don't go. If you think it could be ok give it a go, after all you don't have to stay if it's not right for you.

[black taz]

My agility club is positive training as well, although each individual owner does tend to differ how they handle their dog (as with anything).  one of my concerns would be if you can get in straight away - our club has a substantial waiting list.

As others have said though - go along for a couple of classes and then judge how you feel.

good luck with it though - it is great fun.

[Sarah1985]

Its a new club (been going for a month I think) so theres no waiting list currently. I spoke to a few people that have joined and they've told me to aviod the beginners and advanced classes as this is for the more serious agility folk which I presume it why tensions were abit high. Its a shame the more agressive dog handlers are putting other people off those classes.

However the club also runs a fun class and this sounds like its more what Id be wanting. Im going to go and watch next weekend so hopefully its more suited to us.

The instructors were so nice and do advocate positive training methods so it sounded perfect, its just a shame about the other participants

[Top Barks]

I started going to a club, and there were folks shouting at their dogs (even the instructors), throwing keys at them etc.
Bayley told me what he felt of the atmosphere as every time he did a course he always went to the barn doors at the end.
His performance got worse and worse and he was begining to shut down.
He wanted out and who was I to argue.
I personally would not go to a class like this.

[johndoran]

Sometimes I wonder just who these classes are for ,the dogs or the owners ? Surely no one in their right mind would try to force a dog to do something it is not happy with.

[6thSense]

Not all serious competition folk are like this as where I have trained a lot of them there are such people and believe me they don't feel the need to treat a dog in any way but positively and get the best results as a consequence, so to be honest I think I would avoid that class as you said and try the fun one. Even if you do the fun one it doesn't stop you from competing if you wish to in the future. You can compete even if you teach your dog yourself at home, but I do think it's nice for you and your dog to mix with other people and there dogs. First and formost you and especially your dog should enjoy each and every session.

[Rosie]

I do find it a little upsetting that again agility people that enjoy competing are being branded as harsh / pushy and not positive.

My dogs would not do it if stressed and I do not want them to be stressed.  I have so much fun with my dogs that I would hate it if they were unhappy.

regardless of whether competing or not find a class you are comfortable with and you will all enjoy.  But please please do not assume because we enjoy competing it means we put our amibitions above our dogs welfare / enjoyment.  Look up Dawn Weaver - arguably one of the best agility handlers in the country and look at her ethos - Natasha Wise (medium World champion), Nic Garrett etc all their dogs adore them and doing agility becuase they are so positive and make it fun.  its not the purpose of the club but the attitude of those in charge that make the difference.

Some handlers can be hard to manage mind - you can try and try but can not change some attitudes and short of throwing them out the club you are stuck - some new clubs may not quite have the confidence to do it at an early stage.

I am lucky that now I can pick my students but in the early days came to blows with a lot of people and found myself in tears a lot - things do change and have changed a lot do not let the die hards shape your view though - most of us are trying to change the remaining minority.

[Helen]

It's an incredibly difficult situation when the trainers have one opinion and the class members another - as Rosie said there are a die hard minority that will adhere to their outdated training attitudes but it can't make it easy for those who don't and choose positive and more gentle methods, and for those who's dogs are sensitive to raised voices and aggressive humans. 

I would go to the fun classes and keep in the back of your mind it is now only a minority of people that have outdated training views and most competitive agility people would NEVER treat their dogs this way 

[LinzHenz]

are there any other classes in your area that you could have a look at to compare with? where abouts are you?

i think if you have never done agility before it would be very difficult to train yourself at home, you would need a bit of instruction at least in the beginning. plus to kit yourself out would cost a bomb.

strange that they would separate into beginners and fun...our training is same never mind whether you are just doing it for fun with your dog or if you decide to compete, no everyone wants to.

hope you find somewhere you are happy with...you will have so much fun thats for sure xx