Has anyone sent their dogs away for training?

[JohnW]

As previously mentioned I have started Raven's training as well as my own, Lilly one of my golden girl's and willow are previously trained gundogs also, Raven is coming along great but I have decided to enroll him into more intensive training with the gamekeeper who trains us both, I am taking Raven up to northumberland on Monday to be housed and trained for what may be up to 3 month intensive training program. He is only 7 months old and although he is quite used to sleeping in a dog run with his mother and father I am still a little worried how he will cope being away from home . But once I decide to do something I will see it through and in the long run I know Raven will only benefit from this experience. Anyone else gone to this extreme in getting their dog trained?, I am on the whole a novice also and I don't feel confident enough to train him to a fully trained worker myself, I hope once he is trained I will also benefit from this also. I have spoken to more experienced working kennel owners and they think it's a good thing to do.

 I own raven's mother and father and they are both great dogs, also I agility train Bailey, Ravens dad who is now starting to near competition level, and his mother Willow is actually reacting well to dummy retrieving and my other girl Lilly is also a trained gundog I bought, her owners were divorcing and her sale was a consequence of this I have also been doing some dummy training with her and she is remembering her previous training also, It kinda seems i have potentially 3 working dogs now but I must admit Raven is the the most promising and eager to please. Well I decided to send him to full on, in house training and I can sort of work with his mother and Lilly while he is in Northumberland and I will go to see him twice a week to see his progress and also be taught myself along the way. my biggest worry is that he will not be the same loving easy going Raven I reared from birth. I know he will be different but I hope for the better. Has any COL members done this and has your dog behaved differently when he or she has returned?  I have bought a really good camera recently and I am going to take some pictures of his progress as well as my own I will post them on over the next few weeks so you can all see how Raven and myself are progressing as well as willow and Lilly, and of-course Bailey and Bramble on the agility.   .

[milly]

I haven't done this but it's an individual decision. One of the problems with sending a dog away is the owners ability to handle the dog when it returns home, you seem to have covered this though with the plans you have made. The fun part for me is training the dog myself but you have 3 so thats differant. For me my pup is a hobby as well as a pet/worker and I'm enjoying the training. I'm lucky to have OH who has trained gundogs (though this is our first cocker) and I've enrolled with the Gundog Club.
Part of the worry would be an issue of trust and how the pup is treated whilst it away, you seem to know the person so thats reasurring. Some people let the dog go away for parts of the training they don't have the time, knowledge or facilities to train for and I'm sure someone on here will have experience of this. Good luck.

[SkyeSue]

Interesting thread. I have sometimes wondered about this (I checked out Lamington Gundogs, and they profess to work miracles!!!) I decided against it though...I just can't get my head around someone else training my dog without me being there to watch, learn and participate in it all. I suppose it depends on what you want your dog to do/behave like....I'm not going to be working Chloe, although I would love to give her the opportunity to do gun-dog training.

[milly]

John are you planning on working Raven?

[JohnW]

John are you planning on working Raven?

Hi Milly, Yes I have started his gundog training myself several weeks ago, But I feel he needs more advanced training and with us both being novices, and I am more than able to cover the expense of his training I decided i would like to take advantage of the expertise the trainer would be able to offer him, We are taking it week by week and hopefully all going well Raven will be fully trained over the next few months and then i will learn from raven so to speak along the way, I am lucky enough to have a few friends who have worked their dogs for years and I am even friends with several farmers who lease out their land to shoots or go rough shooting themselves with their own dogs so I have at least got plenty of backup and assurances so to speak, Just hope first time out myself and raven are OK, its months away yet but I am nervous thinking about it.   However I am more than assured the trainer/gamekeeper will be great with Raven as he has several cocker's and one of them is actually an aunt of Raven. 

[wrenside]

Hi John,

I think that sending ones dog away to be trained if you don't have the time is a good idea, especially if you think that your dog will enjoy it. However, it's not a quick fix solution, and all of the work that is put into Ravens training must also be put into training you too!  When he returns 'fully trained' you must have also been trained up in how to 'operate' him  so your plan to visit him twice a week during training is a very good one  But I don't think that you should expect to learn from him once he returns home because I suspect he will run rings round you and abuse your own lack of training because that's what our intelligent little friends love to do  even if you yourself have been working with them for months! 

So my advise is go for it if you feel Raven and yourself need the constant support from a professional trainer, but make sure that you absolutely learn the reins whilst Raven is still under instruction from the trainer so that he understands that you and the trainer are a united front in terms of what you both expect from him. Otherwise the whole endeavor could prove fruitless 

I personally have never sent a dog away for training, but I was on a shoot once where there was this lovely little cocker being extremely naughty and zooming all over the place    Anyway its owner was very cross indeed, and was explaining that this dog shouldn't be doing what it was doing because it had just come back from 6months training with a dog trainer and was 'fully trained'. Needless to say the owner had not bothered to put any work into learning how the dog had been trained, build up a bond with the dog, practise the commands in a controlled environment etc.... so no wonder the dog was taking such liberties and enjoying itself so much!  The poor dog then got a smack on the bum and was sent off for another 6months of boot camp, unfortunately the owner wouldn't be told that it was them and not the dog who should be attending the boot camp! 

Anyway, hope this info etc... helps 

Good luck with Raven, I'm sure he'll do you proud 

Mary x

[JohnW]

Hi Mary, I totally understand your point and I guess in the back of my mind I have a slight fear it will prove fruitless, I have had a good long chat with our trainer and he has basically told me what you said and warned me it's not a quick fix either (but not so eloquently) It's not that i don't have the time it's more probably down to confidence with Raven on my part I just don't want to let him down as he is doing so well but I feel he needs a more experienced hand to bring him on further, I agility train 2 of my other dogs now also and Agility is quite different altogether, What we have agreed on is a week by week training program, so thankfully I can pay at the end of each weeks training, and if Raven is responding well and when I visit, My trainer will then of-course show me how to best give instruction to him, If Raven is not reacting well on this route or more to the point he is not responding to my instructions while I am there, well we will have to re asses it and take a different route, I guess I just want to get things rite for both of us and I have full confidence in my trainer to bring raven on, (just hope I don't let him down) But I will no doubt keep you updated on his and my progress. 

[wrenside]

It sounds like you and your trainer are going about the challenge of training up Raven in a very sensible (and hopefully cost effective!  ) manner!! 

Good luck with it all 

Mary x

[mcphee]

Rufus's mum was sent away for training.    As a newbie, I didn't ask about her field behaviour, because she was so calm and affectionate indoors with her litter, until after I got Rufus. Big mistake, as they said she was not very biddable. I only found out when I went back to the breeder for advice on his recall. If I was starting again, I think I would know what to ask and would seriously consider using some form of training away from me. As it is, I accept I couldn't be parted from him. I didn't know about COL then!

[JohnW]

Rufus's mum was sent away for training.   As a newbie, I didn't ask about her field behaviour, because she was so calm and affectionate indoors with her litter, until after I got Rufus. Big mistake, as they said she was not very biddable. I only found out when I went back to the breeder for advice on his recall. If I was starting again, I think I would know what to ask and would seriously consider using some form of training away from me. As it is, I accept I couldn't be parted from him. I didn't know about COL then!

It's actually not as bad as you would think, it is hard when I leave him but to be honest the training he is receiving is second to non, In just 3 short weeks he is coming on magnificently, I was having trouble on the retrieving as he wouldn't stop running in, and liked to parade the dummy like a trophy, but when I was with him today he now waits for the command before he moves and when I retrieve the dummy myself he just sat and didn't flinch, The dummy was thrown 5 times and he was only commanded to retrieve it once which he did and brought it back perfectly to the hand, Even his silly jack in the box leaping on the spot has been stopped, I must admit he seems to be having a really great working HOLIDAY, He will be in training another 4 weeks at least, but to be honest I have full confidence in this method but its also down to me regularly visiting and training myself also so to speak so anyone going down this route must be prepared to visit and train with the trainer and dog regular too it's not just about dropping your dog off and picking him up in 3 months later and BINGO a fully trained gundog its more down to us as owners as its really us that need the training (well this is how I see it). He now is also swimming with the trainers other dogs, Raven loved to splodge but never swam, so it is also something else he is now doing to my utter surprise. Raven is only 8 months old so I think this short time away from home will do him good long term. well I hope so but I am not as concerned as I was a few weeks ago.

[cazza]

it's not just about dropping your dog off and picking him up in 3 months later and BINGO a fully trained gundog its more down to us as owners as its really us that need the training (well this is how I see it).   Raven is only 8 months old so I think this short time away from home will do him good long term. well I hope so but I am not as concerned as I was a few weeks ago.

See I just don't understand why you don't just go to the trainer weekly etc and train him yourself inbetween - as you say it's YOU that needs the training to train the dog. He's only 8 months old

I had the chance of Fern going away when she was younger and I didn't do it - and am so glad I didn't as I am proud of all the work I have put in with her, yes I've had help and been to one to one sessions but they were showing me how to train her and any problems I have come up against the trainer is still there for me 

Last Sept when I saw the trainer he praised me on her and that made me so proud, but without his help I wouldn't have got that far with her

I do have an issue with her which i need to get sorted and will be going for a block of one to one sessions with him as he has the equipment I need to train her with (in the way of equipment I mean a pen with rabbits etc in - so that I can get her to focus on me when there is a higher distraction about like rabbits and pheasents) I will do the work and he will watch me whilst drinking his coffee and advise me if I can do things differently etc.

Fern will NEVER make a gundog as such but that is a different story - but we have fun training together, just cos I will not use her out on a shoot doesn't mean that I don't train her as tho I would, you never know one of these days she might surprise me, and she loves agility she is not as speedy as Braan was but she and me have FUN together which is what owning a dog is all about IMO

good luck with your training and I am not having a go about what you are doing - we all have different ideas and it is nice to hear about them 

[JohnW]

it's not just about dropping your dog off and picking him up in 3 months later and BINGO a fully trained gundog its more down to us as owners as its really us that need the training (well this is how I see it).   Raven is only 8 months old so I think this short time away from home will do him good long term. well I hope so but I am not as concerned as I was a few weeks ago.

See I just don't understand why you don't just go to the trainer weekly etc and train him yourself inbetween - as you say it's YOU that needs the training to train the dog. He's only 8 months old

I had the chance of Fern going away when she was younger and I didn't do it - and am so glad I didn't as I am proud of all the work I have put in with her, yes I've had help and been to one to one sessions but they were showing me how to train her and any problems I have come up against the trainer is still there for me 

Last Sept when I saw the trainer he praised me on her and that made me so proud, but without his help I wouldn't have got that far with her

I do have an issue with her which i need to get sorted and will be going for a block of one to one sessions with him as he has the equipment I need to train her with (in the way of equipment I mean a pen with rabbits etc in - so that I can get her to focus on me when there is a higher distraction about like rabbits and pheasents) I will do the work and he will watch me whilst drinking his coffee and advise me if I can do things differently etc.

Fern will NEVER make a gundog as such but that is a different story - but we have fun training together, just cos I will not use her out on a shoot doesn't mean that I don't train her as tho I would, you never know one of these days she might surprise me, and she loves agility she is not as speedy as Braan was but she and me have FUN together which is what owning a dog is all about IMO

good luck with your training and I am not having a go about what you are doing - we all have different ideas and it is nice to hear about them 

I fully understand what you are saying but as you said fern is not going to be a gundog, but raven is. I also do agility training with 2 of my other dogs Bailey and Bramble (Bailey is now getting close to competition level) and I do all that training myself with our agility school, and the training I receive from the trainer with Raven so to speak I then pass onto my other dogs Lilly and willow who are also with me, I can understand anyone being concerned about not wanting to send their dogs away but this was not done cold heartedly it was done as I wanted the best possible start to ravens training and in fact I find its working really well for me as well. I did do several weeks on one to one training with Raven I.E driving up-to the gamekeepers house but after discussing some residential training with him I felt it would at least be worth exploring and IMO its working. I understand you weren't having a go and I also understand people have different ideas on how to train a dog or how a dog should be trained but up-to now I am happy with this method.

[cazza]

I fully understand what you are saying but as you said fern is not going to be a gundog, but raven is. I also do agility training with 2 of my other dogs Bailey and Bramble (Bailey is now getting close to competition level) and I do all that training myself with our agility school, and the training I receive from the trainer with Raven so to speak I then pass onto my other dogs Lilly and willow who are also with me, I can understand anyone being concerned about not wanting to send their dogs away but this was not done cold heartedly it was done as I wanted the best possible start to ravens training and in fact I find its working really well for me as well. I did do several weeks on one to one training with Raven I.E driving up-to the gamekeepers house but after discussing some residential training with him I felt it would at least be worth exploring and IMO its working. I understand you weren't having a go and I also understand people have different ideas on how to train a dog or how a dog should be trained but up-to now I am happy with this method.

Nah still don't see the point - as Braan was doing fantastic as a gundog before he died 4 weeks ago and I did ALL his training myself too (sorry just wanted to make the point that just cos I won't use Fern doesn't mean I haven't had and trained others totally myself)

[JohnW]

I fully understand what you are saying but as you said fern is not going to be a gundog, but raven is. I also do agility training with 2 of my other dogs Bailey and Bramble (Bailey is now getting close to competition level) and I do all that training myself with our agility school, and the training I receive from the trainer with Raven so to speak I then pass onto my other dogs Lilly and willow who are also with me, I can understand anyone being concerned about not wanting to send their dogs away but this was not done cold heartedly it was done as I wanted the best possible start to ravens training and in fact I find its working really well for me as well. I did do several weeks on one to one training with Raven I.E driving up-to the gamekeepers house but after discussing some residential training with him I felt it would at least be worth exploring and IMO its working. I understand you weren't having a go and I also understand people have different ideas on how to train a dog or how a dog should be trained but up-to now I am happy with this method.

Nah still don't see the point - as Braan was doing fantastic as a gundog before he died 4 weeks ago and I did ALL his training myself too (sorry just wanted to make the point that just cos I won't use Fern doesn't mean I haven't had and trained others totally myself)

Wether its one on one training or residential training with a trainer Cazza its still under the guidance of a trainer, Ravens training is just a bit more intensive and I do train my other dogs myself without a trainer too. I am sorry you lost Braan recently and I was not having a go about fern but I apologise if it came over that way. It seems as far as COL is concerned its uncharted territory but I am also a member of a gundog forum and after speaking to dog owners on there as well as local gundog kennels its not as uncommon as you would think, and although it does appear to be a mixed bag of fortunes I am personally happy with my decission, I will be bring Raven home in 3 to 4 weeks and Then I will resume my weekly trips to the gamekeeper from there. Raven is almost on a working holiday and its the first time I have sent any of my dogs away even if i am on holiday I will find a way round where I can take the dogs too as i don't personally like boarding kennels and don't understand people leaving their dogs while away to be looked after by strangers no matter how nice they are(sorry I am ranting now so I will stop) , but at least Raven got to know the couple he is living with beforehand and he sees me twice a week. But its ok we will just have to agree to disagree, again sorry you recently lost Braan.

But can you answer me a question I did a bit looking through the archives and came across a thread entitled Boarding school, you did appear to agree with another COL member that it was a good thing to send their dog to boarding school on a working holiday and you were even tempted to send your Fern, so what changed your mind?

[JohnW]

We have not long returned from Northumberland with Raven, and as I have just been getting a noo camera I thought I would try it out, I asked our trainer if I would be able to take some pics of Raven and his cocker's and He was very kind enough to allow this, His dogs posed beautifully for their pics and Even my little lad came up trumps, I thought I would share this picture with you all as it is my favourite of the day and not bad considering I have never used a digi camera in my life before . Its of Ebony top right she is the grandmother, Chloe the mum is top left, and Hazel The middle is Chloe's daughter its so nice to see 3 generations together, My lad Raven is obviously at the front panting as I think he is in Awe of these 3 lovely ladies.

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/woolbails/john3/Picturepupsdogs159.jpg[/img]]

I will upload more pics tomorrow as I am off for a bath but I hope you like this pic as its not bad for a complete amatuer.