Author Topic: Dummies  (Read 3994 times)

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Offline KayJay

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Dummies
« on: January 08, 2012, 12:36:42 PM »
I'm looking to do a bit of fun training with my working cocker.....no intention to work to the gun, she's destined for agility but I quite like the idea of having a go at the odd scurry, and I do like to give her outlets for her natural instincts to sniff and carry. She's got a pretty good retrieve, will search long grass for a thrown toy and will remember where a second ball (thrown for my BC who doesn't always fetch hers!) has landed and will go back and get that after giving me hers, so I think we're on the right track! Looking for a suitable dummy.....what weight would be right for a cocker? Does it matter?

Cheers!  :003:
Kay Jennings CAP 1 & 2
www.fourpawsonedirection.co.uk

Offline Nicola

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 01:08:33 PM »
It depends on their age, for general training I use a 1/2 lb puppy dummy to begin with and then move to a 1lb once they're a bit bigger. I have heavier ones and other types for Rodaidh and Caoimhe when they were doing more full-on game training but for scurries etc. regular 1lb canvas dummies are standard use.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline KayJay

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 01:53:27 PM »
Dazzle's 18 months, so sounds like a 1lb one is OK. Thanks!
Kay Jennings CAP 1 & 2
www.fourpawsonedirection.co.uk

Offline JaspersMum

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 01:54:45 PM »
I am doing  2 day workshop with Louie in a few weeks.  He's never been one for carrying things or bringing back unless its a dead rabbit or squirrel, I was thinking about training with one of the dummys that you fill with treats (zipped so you take out to reward when they bring them back)  Does anyone know where I can get one (the last one I had was finished off by certain dogs cleverer than me who just removed the zip!)

OR do you think I'm better working with a fur covered one Nic as that is what he likes to carry?

Jenny - owned by Jasper, Ellie, Heidi, Louie & Charlie

Offline Nicola

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 04:26:33 PM »
I've never used a dummy with treats in it (and wouldn't), but I don't use food at all for retrieving work. If he naturally likes to pick up and carry fur then I would go for a rabbit skin dummy.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline praia

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 03:46:58 AM »
I always use 1/2 lb canvas dummies for starting pups.  If a pup needs to be introduced to feather or a dog prefers retrieving fur and feather over canvas then I like to use dummies that have elastic straps and attach bird wings to them. I also use bird or rabbit scent rubbed into dummies to help train for more effective scenting during a hunt and perhaps that might help with a dog that won't normally pick up a dummy, but will pick up a dead rabbit.

I also never use food when training for a proper retrieve and I would think that the sort of dummy described that holds treats would make some dogs run off with the dummy instead of returning it.

Offline seaangler

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 06:04:04 AM »
We...Well are trainer..never works with treats in the dummy...(tBut saying that rainers all work differently to one another)

As jasper mum say hers will pick up a dead rabbit...Are Peggy rolls in them :D as she is fifty% there already she jest needs the picking up...to be done...

jasper mum... Any good gun dog magazine or just type in Google....

We have a few of the older generation fellows that will clean one up....that will clean a rabbit or fessy up for us...





Gemma..Cindy And peggy

Offline riotous_uk

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 09:14:48 AM »
I have used treats in a dummy to help build a dogs drive for retrieving, and I do use food when training my gundogs (we also play tug...shock horror). I've used clicker training to teach a dog to pick up articles and then built on that using alsorts of interestign toys and even a toy on a lline that I could whip about to get interest. Once teh dog is retrieving happily, steadiness can be worked on and the food faded.
I have one of those dummies that you mentioned jaspersmum if you'd like to om your addy, I'll send it to you.
Pauline
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Offline praia

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 04:20:17 AM »
I think my main worry for using treats in this particular fashion (being actually inside the dummy) is that some dogs may start to think that getting the dummy is the reward, which is only fulfilling the drive to chase, when a dog should be rewarded for actually retrieving the dummy.  Some dogs may understand that in order to get the treat out of the dummy they would have to bring it back to you, but I would think that most dogs wouldn't understand the concept right away and might take up the habit of running off, which just creates a new problem.

I would think the point of these treat dispensing dummies is to make the dummy interesting to the dog, which is what rabbit skin or bird wings attached to dummies also do, but if the dog naturally picks up and retrieves fur (which the dog in question does), then use that to your advantage and find an appropriate dummy that fulfills that drive.

I'm not averse to using clicker training or rewarding a dog with food if the dog isn't a natural retriever. I've never used food in training for retrieves, because both of my spaniels are natural retrievers with great drive.  I suppose if a dog is lacking natural drive, one has to find what works for that particular dog.  If I had to train a dog that wasn't keen on retrieving I would back chain using a clicker and food, though personally, I'd rather not spend all that time training a dog to do something that it doesn't naturally enjoy doing.  Perhaps the reason why most gun dog trainers don't use food in their training is because the dogs they train have so much drive that the retrieve is reward enough in itself?  At least for me, this was the case for my own spaniels.  I also use flirt poles to build prey drive and play tug with both spaniels, but that's beside the point.

Offline JaspersMum

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 07:41:18 AM »
There is a local gun/field shop so I hope to pop in there perhaps later to look at the dummies they have, Lou's not likely to do serious training to work or trial (unless he proves to have a real passion for it at the training day) but it's good to have another way of focusing his mind.  That 1/4 worker bit in his genetic makeup makes a huge difference to him over the others!

Jenny - owned by Jasper, Ellie, Heidi, Louie & Charlie

Offline Helen

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 09:29:16 AM »
Do you mean gun dog trials or field trials?  If you mean field trials than Louis would have to be powered by Kryptonite and be Superman at his gun dog day  ;)

Casting no aspersions on any dog's ability but field trialling is really not for the faint-hearted and only the best of the best and fastest of the fast make it to that level.

Gun dog trials on the other hand are open to all levels and it would be a great thing to aim for :luv:
helen & jarvis x


Offline SteveB

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 10:06:33 AM »
All first class information in my opinion. The only bit that I would add is keep the dummy seperate from other toys. When you finish training put it away so that the dog thinks of it as that special toy.

Offline Helen

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 11:48:57 AM »
...and never use it as a plaything around other dogs - it should be kept strictly for training  ;)
helen & jarvis x


Offline JaspersMum

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 12:08:42 PM »
Do you mean gun dog trials or field trials?  If you mean field trials than Louis would have to be powered by Kryptonite and be Superman at his gun dog day  ;)

Casting no aspersions on any dog's ability but field trialling is really not for the faint-hearted and only the best of the best and fastest of the fast make it to that level.

Gun dog trials on the other hand are open to all levels and it would be a great thing to aim for :luv:

Which is why he's doing a workshop for the pet dog and any aptitude would only result in accepting on ongoing invitation to "have a go" at beating in the future

Jenny - owned by Jasper, Ellie, Heidi, Louie & Charlie

Offline SteveB

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Re: Dummies
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 01:40:20 PM »
You would probably be better ooff going Dogging in first if the dog shows the aptitude.
Its a pity as it is coming to the end of the season but if you are interested later in the year. Andrea helps out dogging in a place called Presteigne (43 miles from Worc according to AA route finder) the gamekeeper (he also trains gundogs for private individuals)  is good as gold but he will shout at you :lol2:. Andrea has taken a few novices with her and he does not have a problem. Let me know if you are interested.