CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Rikki on November 21, 2013, 08:47:14 PM
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Hi there,
First post on the forum. My partner and I recent rehomed a 4 (nearly 5) month old Working Cocker Spaniel bitch a couple of weeks ago.
We are having a lot of issues with her to the point that we don't really know what to do and, I hate to say it, I'm really starting to lose my patience and we are starting to reconsider our decision. I really hope you guys can help us.
She has started to aggressively bite, growl and bark. I know puppies do this but it's not mouthing and doesn't really seem like the normal behaviour for a pup, it seems to be getting worse and she is actively coming over, clamping down and growling. Every time you try to correct her (saying no, not physically) she will start to bite you and bark at you. We can't even play games such as fetch, tug of war or hide and seek (her toys) because she will bite and growl and hide.
We have tried ignoring the biting to no avail, she will just wait for you to come back and start doing it again or she will bark at you and try and nip. We have tried correcting her by yelping and walking away for a minute and it has the same effect. We have tried putting her on a time out in her crate and she will bark and whine until you let her out and then she will just nip again. We have even as a last resort corrected her by shouting a firm 'NO!' And giving her a tap on the nose and it just isn't working.
We have a few other typical issues such as separation anxiety, chewing and weeing which can obviously be sorted out but it's just seeming like this aggression and biting isn't going to stop.
I really hope you can help us as we really don't want to give up!
Thanks
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Hi and welcome to COL :D
Its been a while since Pearl was a pup but she certainly behaved as you are describing on more occasions than I could count! Its a brave decision to take on a pup that's a little bit older, do you know of her history? Did the previous owner do any training with her (bite inhibition?) And how socialised with other dogs is she?
Sorry to ask so many questions but its hard to offer thoughts or advice on here without knowing a little more ;)
I found the most effective action with Pearl was to ignore her - by that I mean if she nipped (or tried harder) to turn my back on her, cross my arms and look as though I was sulking! She'd take herself off for a few minutes and then come back all sweetness and cuddles :shades: until the next attempt!
She also started teething at around 5 months and was far worse if she was tired, out of normal routines or excited from playing (which its really tempting to do at that age :D )
It does get better and I'm sure someone with more experience or more recent expereince will be along soon to offer advice.
(Please don't tap on her nose as she may become frightened of your hands!)
Jayne
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Did the shelter you rehomed her from not give you any advice?
I was surprised how just how vicious puppy biting and nipping can seem, especially when they are literally jumping up to clamp their jaws around you! And it does take time to get the message that its unacceptable over to them. We had only just started to make progress around 4 months, and now pup is teething so we are sort of back to square one. I guess your rescue pup has never had any consistency to her training - which is why you're suffering so much now! Might she be teething also? Keep doing what you're doing, patience is definitely required with these little cockers! Perhaps getting a behaviourist might be an option for the barking/ growling? She's obviously still a bit insecure.
I didn't realise biting/nipping was a "perk" of the breed... it came as a big shock to me. COL is a godsend, everyone's been there, right at the end of their tether... and it really helps to know that on bad days!
Good luck x
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I had similar problems with Murphy, and still do occasionally. Just not with the growling and barking.
One thing I noticed today when Murphy was on a short walk with a neighbours 3 month old Terrier was that they literally fought the whole time they were on the walk. Just puppies being puppies and having a great time. A lot of the behaviour I saw with us was mirrored in the play fighting with the other puppy.
Time outs in another room/crate work best for Murphy.
Also, working Cockers have unbelievable amounts of energy. How much exercise is she getting?
If Murphy looks like he is about to go on one of his mad half hours I take him out for a short walk and this seems to calm him down.
Talking to many Cocker owners I meet on walks and reading many similar threads to this one, it does seem that Cocker pups are prone to biting (cockerdile is a phrase I hear a lot) but stick with it and I am sure things will get better and you will be rewarded with a fantastic companion.
After 2 weeks, I am sure 3 out of the four of us could have quite easily thrown the towel in.
Edit:Just to add, Murphy probably shows the worst behaviour of any dog in the history of dogs. He switches my Xbox off with his nose whilst I am in the middle of a game >:D (he likes the 'ping' sound it makes when it switches off and on) If that isn't grounds for being shipped out to the dog pound I don't know what is. :lol2:
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Thank you for the swift replies. Maybe I should have elaborated a bit more. She's not a rescue; we re-homed her from a family that had her from 8 weeks and now I look back on their behaviour towards her, she was definitely the dominating force in the house. She is great with other dogs and we try to socialise her as much as possible. We both work and we are both away for about 6-8 hours three days a week so she is on her own, I know this isn't ideal but she is walked morning and evening and gets at least an hours worth of walks on those days as well as play time after work. The other four days of the week at least one of us is home all day with her and we take her to a dog park for a couple of hours, as well as a 40min+ walk in the evening and some play time.
HBP, It's certainly a relief to hear that other pups have appeared rather aggressive with their biting too! You're right about the behaviourist, we have already contacted one and are in the process of arranging a 1-2-1 meeting with her and Millie (Our puppy! Just realised I hadn't said that), we were curious as to whether we should both be there? Or is it ok with just one of us?
We're both new to Cockers but have each had 18 years+ experience with other dog breeds, I guess it's a matter of finding a method that works best for her and sticking to it. As I mentioned before, Pearly, tapping her on the nose was a desperate last resort and hasn't happened since!
And Murphy, Millie has started to shuffle under our tv cabinet, unplugging my xbox from the power block in the process so I feel your pain ;) I wasn't sure whether to take Millie out for walks when she goes hyper, wouldn't that be rewarding her behaviour?
Thanks again for the support, guys, and apologies for originally posting this in the wrong section ;)
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Hi Rikki,
You have a PM.
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It does sound as though you're doing everything right :D a good behaviourist wwill help you identify Millies trigger points and what to do to either distract her or deflect her behaviour. It does get easier I promise :D
I've been a member of COL for over 2.5 years now and can honeatly say there seems to be a thread on this very subject open at all times...I'm not sure that Cockers are any more "bitey" than other breeds but couple that with their energy levels and just how lovely/affectionate at other times it is such a shock when they do something that appears out of character!
Might be worth checking if Millie is teething as it may exacerbate her play-biting?
Has anyone mentioned yet that we like photo's on here :005:
Jayne
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I remember Bracken in the early weeks I called him evil on many a times, always biting and wanting to bite me more I said no he just dived in again and again, until I found what he hated, being ignored so that was my helpline so to speak, every time he tried to bite I turned my back and every time I did he wanted a cuddle and it lessened over the next few weeks, he's 14 months old now and is the most affectionate big pupster ever, very soft mouthed, he was completely different to my late retriever when he was a pup so I was then quite shocked!
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Thanks again, guys, this has been really helpful. I have been exercising the techniques you have offered up this morning and I have a much calmer pup than usual. I think we just needed a bit of reassurance from Cocker owners that we're on the right track and that she doesn't need to be exorcised!
As requested, here's Millie staring inquisitively at the camera (or mischievously at the dangling camera strap!)
(http://i.imgur.com/gXqEjG4.jpg)
Now it's off to the dog park with us for some (attempted!) fetch and recall training
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Adorable! :luv:
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Thank you! She is the cutest thing, a lot smaller than she appears in the pictures too. We were convinced that she was actually a Springer before we got her as she really resembles one. But as soon as she drops her ears (which isn't often, she's an inquisitive one!) she's a Cocker through and through.
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Millie :luv: is beautiful - the markings on her legs are gorgeous :luv:
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Ah she's beautiful!! :luv: :luv: Glad things are better today :D
A lot of the time when H is out of control hyperactive, I put him in his bed and he usually goes straight to sleep.... he gets overtired but won't admit it!! So maybe try a nap before taking her out for a walk every time? X
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ohh what a cracking pup, workers can be very testing I know I have one of the worst ones :005: but only in the house outside walking or gundog training she has always been a good pup. They are like toddlers showing off in Sainsbury. Causes are boredom, tiredness and the fact they are working cockers.
Please stick with it I promise it will get so much better , it took Teal 10 months before her behaviour in the house became acceptable even if she still has her moments at 16 months.
Working cockers are bred for their stamina and brains so brain training is the best way to tire them out lots of brain games and sleeps in between it is easy to over exercise a young pup and it doesn't really help as they just get fitter and fitter
Teal was a champion cockerdile and still mouths a lot its one of her favourite games but now we only do this when I say so but it is very controlled she now has great bite inhibition.
Good idea to see the behaviourist, but as you can see from these posts I think you just have a normal working cocker pup.
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A reputable behaviourist is definitely a good idea, they will be able to see her behaviour first-hand and give you a tailored plan to put in place. Have you also thought about getting someone to call in with her and/or take her for a walk on the days that she is left alone? A family member, friend, neighbour or professional dog walker? 6-8 hours 3 days a week is too long for a dog to be left on its own without toilet breaks or any human company, especially a puppy.
Another thing to be aware of is the amount of exercise she's getting - working Cockers do need a lot of physical and mental stimulation but it's important to be careful when they are puppies. The guideline is 5 minutes per month of age up to 3 times a day so at 4 months old that's about 20 minutes x3/day. Pootering around on soft surfaces like grass isn't as hard on the joints as pavement walking but puppies are like small children, they will go and go without knowing when to stop and regularly overexercising them when young can lead to joint problems in later life, as well as making them overtired and actually more 'hyper'. Mental stimulation like games and training is very effective for tiring them out and keeping their active brains occupied.
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What a beautiful girl Millie is :luv: :luv: she has such an intelligent looking face, i am glad that things seem a bit easier today, hang in there. Cockers are really worth it ;)
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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I would just like to say hang in there , I've been there & know exactly what you are going through , we were first time puppy owners with our dog Amber ,
We nearly rehomed her on many occasion as she was a nightmare , felt we were doing everything wrong, cutting a long story short we didn't give up on her & she is now 4 years old & pretty good you will get through this , I never thought we would but we did . Your puppy looks adorable by the way x
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I can't give you any better advice than that which you have already received but I just had to say what an absolutely stunning girl Millie is :luv:
I do love the workers ;)
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I had similar problems with Murphy, and still do occasionally. Just not with the growling and barking.
One thing I noticed today when Murphy was on a short walk with a neighbours 3 month old Terrier was that they literally fought the whole time they were on the walk. Just puppies being puppies and having a great time. A lot of the behaviour I saw with us was mirrored in the play fighting with the other puppy.
Time outs in another room/crate work best for Murphy.
Also, working Cockers have unbelievable amounts of energy. How much exercise is she getting?
If Murphy looks like he is about to go on one of his mad half hours I take him out for a short walk and this seems to calm him down.
Talking to many Cocker owners I meet on walks and reading many similar threads to this one, it does seem that Cocker pups are prone to biting (cockerdile is a phrase I hear a lot) but stick with it and I am sure things will get better and you will be rewarded with a fantastic companion.
After 2 weeks, I am sure 3 out of the four of us could have quite easily thrown the towel in.
Edit:Just to add, Murphy probably shows the worst behaviour of any dog in the history of dogs. He switches my Xbox off with his nose whilst I am in the middle of a game >:D (he likes the 'ping' sound it makes when it switches off and on) If that isn't grounds for being shipped out to the dog pound I don't know what is. :lol2:
HA! Hudson does this... clever cockers ;)
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Working cockers are definitely a hand full, Bonnie is our first worker and compared to our previous black lab she was a nightmare pup.The wife was in tears quite often and convinced bonnie was a savage phsyco dog and was worried for our 4 year old granddaughters safety.Stick with what your already doing, time outs and regular rest periods definatey work.Bonnie is now a loving pup and will lay and have cuddles at night.Cockers seem very strong willed and harder work than a lab but are just as intelligent and far more entertaining and characterful.Bonnie was a real cockerdile but now loves me to hold a chew/bone while she chomps on it and will release straight away if she catchs my hand so has learnt the difference.Bonnie loves a good long walk in the woods off lead and her energy is limitless but is far more tired if I incorperate some training/games while were out.She is great some days and obedient and makes me proud but the day after can be totally uninterested, it is easy to expect too much from a pup and bonnie is now in adolescence so more testing times.Consistency is the key and a regular routine helps.Good luck stick with it.
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Hello all,
I'm rikkis partner (and Millie's mum)
Thank you all for all your help. After trying some of these things we have had some great progress.
She is very intelligent and can tell that by how quick she is picking things up.
Today for the first time we sat had a cuppa and mince pie with her in the room no jumping up or craving attention. A nice walk and attention before probably helped though.
Now she is fast asleep!
Sarah
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That is excellent news, but don't be worried or upset if she regresses from time to time over the next few months, its all part of the growing process.
Millie is a beautiful looking spaniel, just stick with it.
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Thank you for this reply as we had a bit of a bad day with her yesterday.
If anyone has any advice on how to calm down barking it would be appreciated as she has started barking more. She must be getting her voice.
Sarah
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Excessive barking is one of those things I just can't stand, >:D and we were worried by William as a pup as he was given to barking fits particularly in the mornings. We had never had a barker before.
It drives you mad but we found that a combination of distraction and ignoring him was the best policy for us. If it's attention seeking barking, then ignoring him proved the best but waiting for them to stop does really put pressure on the nerves.
I'm happy to say that as he matured the problem just went away and now he just gives request barks when he wants to go out.
Hopefully this is something that will resolve itself for you, another hurdle we have to cross when we take on Cockers.
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That's good to hear. Sarah is better with the barking than I am, it really grates on me! We have been ignoring her when she does it for attention and giving her a calm 'quiet' when she does it for other reasons. I don't think she has really grasped it yet but I'm sure she will.
She's doing a lot better in general though. The biting has gotten far less frequent and the hyperactivity has certainly dropped, it seems like she is settling in now.
Thanks again for the advice
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We thought we would give everyone an update on Millie!
Millie is now 9months old and after ups and downs of nipping, barking, crying, chewing and all the cocker traits we have finally broken through!
After rehoming mils at 4 months we struggled to get her routine but have finally figured each other out.
Our main problem with Millie was that she kept nipping! Naughty little pup and we tried everything!
We finally tried pet corrector ( pressurised air in a can) and it's worked not only does she not nip but she now responds to a simple "no" and knows from our tones of voices when we mean no.
She is absolutely gorgeous and glad we tried so hard with her as finally found something that has worked.
Sarah
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Lovely update, so pleased things have improved and you are now enjoying each other's company :D