CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Helly D on December 16, 2013, 05:50:10 PM
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When looking for a puppy is it best to look for a breeder who has both sire and dam tested for hereditary conditions? There are so many cocker breeders around now and I want to start doing my homework. I see some breeders only breed from stock that are both tested while others just use a sire who has been done. Last pup we bought was nearly 16 years ago and so much has changed in that time.
Thanks for your help.
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Both dogs should be tested, there's no reason for a breeder not to test their bitch other than saving themselves money and the 'hassle' of having the tests done by cutting corners. Bear in mind though that a lot of good breeders won't necessarily own the stud dog they use but will travel all over the country to find the best match for their bitch. I would question anyone who uses their own pet dog or the 'one down the road' - sometimes there is a good reason and a plan behind using your own dog as part of a planned breeding programme but often it's done for convenience and/or to save on the stud fee.
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While it is best to start with breeders who test both parents, it also depends (IMO) what (type) you are looking for, and any future plans for your dog. Show types are more regularly tested for FN, PRA and hip scored (but within working stock, all three tests together are less common). Having show types, I do know that FN was a big problem in show types some years ago, but I wasn’t fixated on ensuring my working type puppy came from FN tested parents as my research indicated that FN had not been a problem within working strain cockers. I wanted a puppy from a specific line/ stud dog who has been PRA tested clear, and I started from there. As you probably know – an affected dog cannot be produced through a mating between one clear and one carrier/affected parent. My puppy’s dam has not been screened for PRA. I looked at the risk, however, and decided that as my puppy would never be affected by PRA due to the stud dogs’ clear result, the worst case would be him as a carrier (which means he would never suffer from this condition). As I don’t intend to use him at stud, this is not an issue. If I were ever to contemplate using him, he would be tested as there is a small risk that he could carry the condition. Hip scoring (and FN testing) in workers is uncommon at present so insisting that both parents be scored and FN tested would have severely limited my choice/ selection.
Do your research carefully and try to get a feel for which breeders are in it for the right reasons. And bear in mind that some ‘in it for the money’ type breeders now advertise their many puppies as ‘from health tested parents’ as it ensures a higher price for pups –health testing isn’t necessarily a guarantee of a decent breeder. Breeders breeding to keep a puppy for themselves to work or show would IMO be the best place to start as they are more likely to be breeding for conformation, temperament, biddability, as well as health. Meet and speak to lots of breeders, find the ones you personally like, and the ones with dogs you like. Ask them about health testing.
Also do lots of reading/ questioning about health testing itself and what tests do what – for example gonioscopy is an annual eye test while pRCD-PRA is DNA/genetic testing. An annual test won’t show whether a dog is a carrier of PRA (and some breeders do the annual testing only...) Some PRA carrier dogs are bred from as well (usually to clear dogs). Some will be hereditarily clear also. Also find out the average hip score for cockers if you’re looking for scored parents (I think it’s about 14?), as dogs with above average hip scores wouldn’t be the best breeding stock. Unbalanced scores aren’t great either. Apologies for this being so long, but health testing is quite a minefield and you will do yourself a favour by finding out as much as possible about it during your research in preparation for your new puppy.
I am not advocating no health testing, just suggesting that two/ both tested parents aren’t always an absolute must as other factors may come into play and health testing of both parents shouldn’t necessarily totally outweigh other important factors such as good temperament and working ability (and vice versa). It’s a balance. This is only my personal experience and opinion, though. All the best with your search. I loved learning all about lines, health tests, etc when researching in preparation of buying my puppy.
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Thank you both. A lot to think about. We will want another show type and we won't be breeding or using for stud so just need to start looking for breeders we like I suppose. The last two have come from 'proper breeders' but there are so many advertising puppies on the KC website it's a bit of a minefield sorting the wheat from the chaff.
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Hi, I'm no expert in this but I did go through the mind field not so long ago, I found going to the local Cocker Club shows very helpfull, you can see so many dogs and after the show you get a chance to talk to the owners many of them are also breeders. One breeder did warn me that test papers are not always what they seem and that the KC website is not the be all and end all, there are some very good breeders who do not feel the need to advertise on the website ,many of there litters have homes way before there born just by word of mouth. I did feel like my head was spinning after a while but I'm so glad I took the time to pick the right breeder, even if Bea is trying to stop me typing this, clearly I'm not showing her enough attention! >:D
As I said I'm no expert as Bea is my first Cocker, thankfully COL is a wealth of knowledge and I am so greatfull for it.
Good luck in your search.
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There is no excuse not to test both parents for prcd_PRA and FN, the tests have been around for 7 years :-\.
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We are planning to go to the London Cocker Spaniel Open Show on 15 February to see the dogs and hopefully talk to some breeders. Is there an etiquette of best time to approach them as don't want to get in their way?