CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Sheryl on January 28, 2014, 04:38:01 PM
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So, I took Kali back to see Laurie for the third time because her ear is so bad. Again, Laurie cannot see down it for the swelling :-\ She has Veraflox tablets again to take the swelling down enough so she can see what's going on it, although she says it looks dirty. I am at a loss to know where these infections are coming from. She is on Lily's Kitchen, I cannot get a better food for her and I have months of alternating between the grain free and normal food so it isn't one or the other as she has had infections on both. It always starts the same, scratching, then it gets swollen, then she starts with the head shaking. I keep her ears clean so I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas?
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It's incredibly frustrating, isn't it :-\
I had massive problems there with Brodie's left ear, it took three different steroid products to sort it out. It turned out to be a 'polyp-like object' causing bother, which led to another bacterial infection. I've got to wonder if it has always been there as it's always been that left ear that gets affected. Is Kali's ear drum intact? I seem to remember at one point they were damaged? Apologies if I am thinking of someone else... Next flare up we are getting referred back to the specialist for allergy tests, and I've got to hope something shows up (and it's something I can change). Although things have massively improved since last year I feel we are going round and round in circles and not getting anywhere :(
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No, you remember right chick, she ruptured the membranes in both ears at one point... which did heal. The last time I am sure we thought it was a cross infection from the hole in her soft palate. Strangely, Lyla also had an infection in one ear but only the one and only once I think. I feel so sorry for Kali. I did ask about maintenance dose of antibiotics for her palate as she has multiple infections there but Laurie was concerned about her building up a resistance. I have to do something, I cannot watch her get infection after infection.
It must be so sore for her and I want to stop it but I don't know what 'it' is!
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Sorry no advice for little Kali :luv: but sending loads of healing thoughts for her x x x
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Is it worth getting a referral Sheryl to see if they can spot something that Laurie's missing? gentle squidges for Kali xx
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Is it worth getting a referral Sheryl to see if they can spot something that Laurie's missing? gentle squidges for Kali xx
I agree, maybe getting a camera put down would find out if there was something going on deep in the ear, if it hasn't been done in the past. It's expensive, but worth it.
It really is awful. Even when Brodie doesn't have an infection she is incredibly sensitive about getting her ear handled, I'm not sure if she's been left with some pain or if it's just the memory of it. It makes keeping the ear clean an unpleasant experience for us both.
It's odd that it is always the same ear. It's interesting to read about her cleft palette - Brodie had a rather severe underbite as a pup and had to have surgery - three teeth were removed from her left side. It does make me wonder if perhaps there is a connection...
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I suppose nothing can be ruled out! Kali aspirates drinks sometimes, food also. I did speak to the surgeon at Royal Dick Vets but he said he thought because of where it is, it might not work and there is a distinct possibility he could make it worse. :-\
You just want to sort it for them but don't know where to start. If it is her palate I cannot do anything except insist on the maintenance dose. However, if it happens again I might ask Laurie to take it further. So frustrating not to help her......
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Ear problems can be so difficult to treat as there are so many different things that cause them.
Blue had an ear problem that went on and on, red, swollen and smelly. After lots of different antibiotics and drops my vet sent an ear swab off which showed up a severe Malassezial infection, which is yeast.
He had Marbocyl antibiotics and Gentecin ear drops which cleared it up within a few weeks. We flushed his ears out weekly with Cleanaural ear cleaner and all was well. That was back in 2007 and he's never had any more problems with his ears. I clean them monthly with Quistel ear cleaner and we only get a small amount of wax.
Later that year he was referred to a skin specialist because of severe itching and hair loss, the results being he had Malassezial Dermatitis. With the correct treatment for him he's fine. Looking good for nearly 10 and hopefully will stay that way for a long while yet.
It may be worth a second opinion if her problem keeps re-occurring as there may some sort of treatment that will work for her. :D
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Poor Kali, I hope you find the answer to help her poorly ears.
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End of day 2, no difference :-\
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:( sorry to hear there's no improvement. Sheryl, can Kali take steroids? The tablets are not an option here, but we've had some success with the cortavance spray - thankfully it doesn't cause the upset the tablets do!
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I can ask doll. Thank you. This is day 3 and her ear looks the same to me. It's almost like a cauliflower ear it's so swollen but bright red too. :-\. I went into Inverurie and picked up Zantac for her as I seem to recall the vet saying the Veraflox were a strong antibiotic. She is due back to see Laurie on Wednesday so if there is no improvement, I'm not coming out of there until they have some plan of action....
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oh poor wee girl :'( :'(
Hope you can get this sorted Sheryl :bigarmhug:
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That sounds rather familiar to Brodie's recent problem - her ear was 'raspberry red'. I had to use a steroid wash, steroid drops, and the steroid spray to get rid of it, it took some time :-\. Hope you can come up with a plan - if the topic of referral to a specialist comes up I went to see Donald Mactaggart at Thistle Vets in Edinburgh, and I highly recommend him.
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We were going to put the caravan on an Edinburgh site......that might be more of a better idea than we thought!
At this rate I will have been round Scotland to see specialists......John Ferguson Fife , Malcolm Davidson Edinburgh and now maybe Edinburgh again! I will ask about a referral to Mr MacTaggart if I feel that we are going round in circles. Thanks again x
Thanks Helen. She isn't a whiner like Lyla but it must be so sore. I seem to be spending my entire time pushing her leg back down to stop her scratching because as soon as she does, it makes her cry out in pain :'(
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I am wondering whether it would be worth taking Kali off any processed food and grains and perhaps just go on a die of raw meat for a few weeks. I know that my spaniel is allergic to any processed food regardless how high quality it is (he throws up daily if I feed him any meaningful quantity of kibble). He has multiple food allergies (causing skin problems) and the only diet that keeps him itch/infection free is one type of raw meat (in his case turkey). Might be worth picking one type of meat and feed him raw for a few weeks. (And if you use a mince that contains bone and offal, then it is pretty well balanced too).
And I am sure you already know about Thornit which I sprinkle in my spaniels' ears when I see them scratching more than just a casual scratch. That's probably once every month or two. That of course is only possible though if the ear is fairly healthy to start with.
Might also be worth checking the thyroid (even if there are no other symptoms) as hypothyroidism can cause persistent infections of skin and ears too. :-)
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I cannot feed raw anymore. She was a raw fed dog but the hole in her soft palate traps meat and unless she coughs it back up, it just sits and rots. So does kibble but to a much lesser extent. As Laurie seems to think that some of these ear infections might be a cross infection from her palate, I had to take her off the raw. It's all very complex :-\
I will check the thyroid thing too though, thank you. No stone unturned, that my motto!
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I see, I understand. I assume she also had the infections when she was on raw as well anyway.
Re thyroid, you will need a comprehensive test, not just the basic one that most vets do. Check out info by Jean Dodds re what you need. ;)
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She had nasal infections but these ear infections are relatively new. I will ask about the thyroid test. Thanks.
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I have absolutely no idea what in Gods name is going on with Kalis ears. She isn't scratching as much but it is still red raw inside. I suppose the major change is that the wax has changed colour from dark brown to almost cream coloured...but there is still so much of it. Poor wee poppet.
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Oh Sheryl, I don't know how I have missed this! I had a cocker a good few years back, she had a small hole in her pallet and had terrible ear problems. She ended up having what I can only remember as an artificial ear canal making below her ear, her original ear was "closed off". It was a major op and not very successful. Is it possible for them to repair her palate?
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It does sound odd: I have never seen a cream coloured discharge before! I take it your vet had done a swab to see if there's any bacteria present? I hope the rawness goes down soon, I guess it's good she isn't scratching as much.
They just don't deserve this, do they :-\
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I was going to suggest aural resection too, where an artificial ear canal is made. I think it may have gone out of fashion as there are more drugs available to tackle re-current ear infections. I was a vet nurse about 30 odd years ago and we did a fair few then. My old cocker Sam almost had one because of his awful ears about 20 years ago as vet had run out of options drug wise. We saw a homeopathic vet who treated his problems and we managed to avoid an operation. That would probably be my next suggestion - to find a holistic vet to see if they can help.
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Oh Sheryl, I don't know how I have missed this! I had a cocker a good few years back, she had a small hole in her pallet and had terrible ear problems. She ended up having what I can only remember as an artificial ear canal making below her ear, her original ear was "closed off". It was a major op and not very successful. Is it possible for them to repair her palate?
No, no repair is possible as the hole is in a place that makes it virtually impossible. The surgeon at Edinburgh said there was no guarantee it could help and there was a distinct possibility he could make things worse. I did suggest a maintenance dose of antibiotics to stop the palate infections in the first place but Laurie said she would be worried she would build up an immunity. Strangely it was the surgeon that mentioned maintenance doses when I asked what I could do to stop those recurrent infections....and I asked the same question as Laurie! He said that at her age, they would never run out of alternatives. :-\
The discharge looks and has the consistency of just wax but it's almost cream coloured. I'm wondering if its wax but being coloured by discharge. Ach, I'm just grasping at straws! No, they don't deserve this and I am just so downhearted that I'm not fixing it for her. Anyway, she sees Laurie on Wednesday so hopefully we can come up with a plan.
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Will be thinking of you both :luv:
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Good luck. Sending healing thoughts :luv:
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Dreading today....... :-\ I am hoping her ear canal is better and it's just the outside that's sore. Why though?
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Thinking of you and Kalli today, sending lots of positive thoughts over :luv: :luv: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Just read this, thinking of you
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Thinking of you. Wish i had a helpful suggestion/cure for you. Poor thing.
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Hope all goes well today :bigarmhug:
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Thinking of you today. Everything crossed. :bigarmhug:
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Hope it goes well and you get some answers xx
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Hope you get somewhere with Laurie today Sheryl.... xx
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Lets hope you get the answers you are so desperately searching for :luv: lots of love to Kali x x x
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This is like swimming through treacle. :-\ After 9 days of Veraflox her ear is still too swollen to get a good look inside. She thinks she can see pus down there but didn't want to hurt Kali by taking too long. So, she has had a steroid injection to try and get the swelling down so we can get an idea of what's going on.
I asked her to look at her bum and lady bits as she seemed uncomfy to me. I told her it wouldn't be her glands as she has never had trouble there. It was her glands, they were infected too :'(. Laurie is still convinced her ear is a crossover infection from her palate but thinks her body was so busy trying to fight her ear problem that the glands just took the opportunity to join in!
So, she's had her steroids, she has Synulox and she goes back Monday teatime. If things are going ok she will stay on the Synulox for longer this time to try and get rid of it. If not, she will stay in and Tuesday morning she will be sedated to get a swab taken (if possible) and full blood panel to see if that gives any clues.
I heard her crying through the back and I felt so awful. You just want to fix them ..... come hell or high water.
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I think you need a few of these girl :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: x x x
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Poor little soul - hope they find a solution soon :luv:
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poor thing. Really hope they get to the bottom of this quickly for you. :bigarmhug:
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Poor thing :bigarmhug: hope they find out what's wrong soon :bigarmhug:
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Thanks. Hopefully on Monday I will know a bit more :-\
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Poor wee girl, she is really going through the mill :(. I hope the steroid injection works, and there's better news on Monday :bigarmhug:
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Aww, feel for your girlie Sheryl, let's hope Monday brings better news.
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Fingers crossed for Monday and a big hug.
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I'm not holding out much hope. There was a slight improvement after the steroid injection but she is back to scratching. From the way Lyla is sniffing her, I'm willing to bet her anal gland infection hasn't cleared up either. More worryingly, she is changing character. I knew she would have an increased appetite but she is ravenous and she cannot seem to settle. She could sleep for Scotland before and now she just lies with her eyes wide open. When she is still at all.
5pm tomorrow cannot come quick enough at all for me. I have this sinking feeling that something else is going on. I just don't know what :'(
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I hope your wrong Sheryl, but good luck.
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I hope your wrong Sheryl, but good luck.
Same from us too :luv: x x x
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Really hoping you are wrong too. Sending loads of positive thoughts and hoping that tomorrow brings some answers. :bigarmhug:
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yes me too
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Thank you :luv: I have the collywobbles already and her appointment isn't til 5pm...... :-\
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Everything crossed for 5pm :bigarmhug:
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Kali is being sedated to check what going on with her ear and anal glands. She is having bloods done too in case there is something else going on. So quiet without her. :'(
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Sorry to hear that - hopefully they will finally be able to see what is going on. Hope she is home soon :bigarmhug:
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Thank you. I'm resisting the temptation to phone :-\
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:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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:bigarmhug:'s Hope you hear some news soon and Kali's back home with you tonight. Natural to think the worst I know, but try not to worry too much xx
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:bigarmhug:
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Hope Kali is soon home and you have the answers you need to get her better.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Fingers crossed
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I hope you have sone good news, thinking of you :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Just saw your update, I hope you get some answers and they can start to make Kali better soon Sheryl, the worst thing is not knowing what's wrong with them :bigarmhug:
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Lots of positive vibes being sent up from down here Sheryl.
Finding out what's wrong is half the battle and we all hope you have some good news soon and a positive outcome for Kali soon after.
Bob'n Dot'n Milly'n Chaz :bigarmhug:
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Thinking of you x
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Well the good news is that her bloods were ok. Nothing abnormal so I can breathe again! They flushed out her anal glands which were better after the antibiotics. However, they found infection in her right ear at the bottom near the membrane which they flushed out only to see debris under the membrane. They decided it is coming from her palate, which is what I have tried to say all along. :-\ Anyway, she will stay on the Synulox for at least a month and she has a fairly new drug called Apoquel which works the same as a steroid but without the nasty side effects. That's just to help take the itching/inflammation out of it. Swabs were taken, the first results should be about a week and the last ones about 4 weeks.
I am not sure if I said but I asked about a maintenance dose of Synulox to try and stop it but the maintenance dose is the normal dose, not lower, so if it stops working, you cannot up the dose. I think if she gets it again we will try at least at the very least, a month of tablets instead of a fortnight. I did ask about an ENT referral but Laurie said they don't really have that up here but she has already e-mailed the surgeon at Edinburgh Vet School to see if he can make any suggestions.
So, all in all good news ..... but still no further forward on how we stop these infections in her palate. I cannot stop her eating so how do I stop infection? :dunno:
Anyway, here is my baby girl this morning.....photo bombed by little Miss Pain in the Bum!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/Fireblade49/daf11f54a82e28374fa69daaec65d955.jpg)
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bless :luv: :luv:
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:luv: and :luv:
hey Sheryl, sorry if this is
a daft question ,but here goes....
have you tried hand feeding her so
her head is more upright and food passes
into her oesophagus rather than getting
stuck in the sinus above her soft palate.
I don't even know if it would work :huh:
poor little lamb :016:
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Good news, I wonder if they can repair the palate? I wonder if they can remove the eardrum? Guess you can tell I am not a vet :005: anyway I hope she is better soon :luv:
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Great news :luv:
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Sounds like you may finally be getting somewhere - good to hear the blood tests were clear and hopefully the swabs will give your vet some answers and a way forward. I hope something can be done for her palate and stop these infections from happening.
They are both very pretty girls :luv:
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Aww thank you :blink:
No, nothing can be done for her palate, at least not surgery wise anyhow. I knew that already. There is a distinct possibility any op could make the problem worse because of where the hole is situated. Laurie only contacted the surgeon in case he had seen this before and if he knew of any alternative drugs that might help.
Not a daft question at all Steph :luv: I spoke to Laurie about raising her dish or getting her a dish that stopped her rushing through her food but never thought about hand feeding her! :doh:
Will give it a try!
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Such beautiful girls :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv: Sending Miss Kali gentle squidges for a speedy recovery :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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What a gorguss photo of two gorguss girlies :luv: hope miss Kali now starts to get better Sheryl x x x
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Just read thro' your thread Sheryl, so sorry what you and Kali are going thro, I do so hope they can sort her so she can be more comfortable.
M.
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Don't know if it would help but many years ago a friend of ours had a baby girl that needed a soft palate repair and it took two or three operations before the fissure was finally closed.
During this time she suffered from almost constant ear and sinus infections and her mum was advised to make sure any food was sterilised as this could help to reduce the chance of infection.
Our friend used a pressure cooker to heat and sterilise her food and it did seem to help a bit.
Don't know if it would work with Kali but it may be worth a try.
Bob.
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Hopefully things are starting to improve for your girl :D
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Aww, poor Kali, hope she can get sorted soon. Bless her. x
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Glad that you had a more positive vet visit. Bob's suggestion of sterilising the food sounds like a good one. Maybe that would help alongside the hand-feeding. I hope you can get some improvements for her soon.
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just managed to get caught up. Hope things for Kali are improving. Its a shame they can't operate and put an artificial palate in with some sort of surgical mesh. Wishful thinking on my part. hand feeding sounds like it could help reduce the food build up and infection risk.
lovely pic :luv:
hope the vets find a solution for you soon.
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Thank you all. :luv: I'm just away to post a pic in Particolours of how difficult she is finding it to relax ph34r :005: