CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Feeding => Topic started by: Geordietyke on February 07, 2014, 01:18:16 PM
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Since swapping Archie onto Simpsons Grain Free Lamb and Potato adult food around a month ago, I had hoped that a better quality kibble would reduce the amount of poo etc. Recently, he's been back doing 4 daily poos and 2 are quite large ph34r :shades:
I've never really wanted to try raw as I had imagined slabs of meat and bones all over the place :020: but then discovered you can get raw complete :lol2:.
Does anyone use this food? Can I feed one meal kibble, the other Nutriment or is it best to stick with the raw complete each day?
I'm a bit wary of some of the stories I've read re. raw feeding and problems dogs have experienced and the disdain of some vets. :-\
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Hi, Jinley is on complete raw, but meat bought from the local butcher and supermarket. She has 2 poos a day, and quite firm and not smelly. (You become a poo expert when the are fed raw). ph34r
She has a chicken wing in the morning and 250 g of meat at night, that could be beef or lamb heart, basic stewing steak or lamb, or a tin of mackerel (flash fried as she doesnt like them straight out of the fridge). She doesnt have any more bones, as all she tries to do is bury them. It is no different to preparing a family meal hygiene wise.
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I fed Nutriment and Natural Instinct when I first started and both are really good as the balance is worked out for you, you just need to defrost and weigh out
You can feed one meal kibble and one raw (as long as they are not mixed together as they digest at different rates) but I don't know if you will see the real potential on the poo side if you are still feeding one kibble (someone might be able to advise on that)
All my lot are now fed raw, have been for about 18months, and I wouldn't change back.
They all poo twice a day and I can fit all three lots into one bag now :005:
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I feed both raw and kibble (and god help me - together... seems no problem for my guys). They have two (occasionally three) small poos a day, which is in fact less than my dog that is fed raw only... :lol:
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I feed both raw and kibble (and god help me - together... seems no problem for my guys). They have two (occasionally three) small poos a day, which is in fact less than my dog that is fed raw only... :lol:
Some dogs are fine on raw mixed with kibble
I often feed raw chicken mince or raw tripe with rileys grain free kibble eden.
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Thanks everyone, very useful info.
I really couldn't face messing with heart, lungs etc - I don't with family meals :lol2: It is the thought of Archie playing and moving chicken wings all over the floor :P
I don't have a local butcher and supermarket is some miles away. My freezer doesn't have room for lots of Archie's meat either so I thought pre-packed meals would be an option.
What are the potential health risks of raw fed dogs by the way? Vets are always say (and I know they aren't nutritionists) that bones can cause blockages/pieces piercing organs etc - it makes me very wary ph34r
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I feed both raw and kibble (and god help me - together... seems no problem for my guys). They have two (occasionally three) small poos a day, which is in fact less than my dog that is fed raw only... :lol:
Some dogs are fine on raw mixed with kibble
I often feed raw chicken mince or raw tripe with rileys grain free kibble eden.
Mine have raw and kibble mixed daily. Always have. No issues. Suppose like anything, it may upset some dogs, but have never found any scientific (or other) evidence to back up the idea that it really is bad to mix the two.
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What are the potential health risks of raw fed dogs by the way? Vets are always say (and I know they aren't nutritionists) that bones can cause blockages/pieces piercing organs etc - it makes me very wary ph34r
There are the usual issues with raw meat, so good hygiene is important.
I use minces which have offal and bone ground into them as well, as I don't want to feed whole bones (regardless of how safe anyone says they are). This way they get everything and it is pretty balanced. There is still a slight risk of a bone piece getting lodged somewhere but it's considerably smaller than a whole bone.
And yes, freezer space can be an issue.
I can't think of any other disadvantages... ;)
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If you feed nutriment you will eliminate the risk of any problems from bone shards because the bone in it will be ground up. I use it for mine when they go to stay with friends or on holiday and it is very easy and a "clean" way to feed raw.
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Thanks, that's what I was thinking :lol2:
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Flavour wise, what is best to start off with?
There is salmon/beef/chicken/turkey/duck. Should I get a mix of flavours and see what suits?
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I wouldnt get a mixture. Try say chicken for a few days then introduce other flavours gradually, that way if there is anything that upsets him, you will know which one it is.
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That's what I meant. Order say 3 packs of each flavour, try one for a week or so, then another and so on.
Trying to work out portions, they state 2% of dog's weight but this means only around 240g daily, which doesn't seem much when it's not kibble (Archie is 11.2kg now)
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That's what I meant. Order say 3 packs of each flavour, try one for a week or so, then another and so on.
Trying to work out portions, they state 2% of dog's weight but this means only around 240g daily, which doesn't seem much when it's not kibble (Archie is 11.2kg now)
Charlie is on 300g. I feed him DAF, it's pre mixed to the relevant quantities of bone, meat and offal.
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Pippa is 12kg and at 3 years old is on 200g a day of raw food. She was on 300g but got a bit plump. 200g seems to suit her fine.
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I'm interested in this but have been put off as Lottie doesn't have many teeth, and because she has a habit of pulling stuff out of her bowl if she'll actually deign to touch it at all. Not liking the idea of raw meat being dragged all over the house! I might need to have a think to see how it could work.
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Nutriiment do a starter pack. Might be worth giving them a call.
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I have just been looking at the nutriment as an option when on holiday. Does it come frozen?
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Personally I don't like to feed kibble as well as raw as I don't see the need, but I know there are plenty of people who do so successfully for all sorts of reasons. If you decide to feed both I'd suggest feeding them as 2 separate meals because kibble takes a few hours longer to be digested than raw so I think it's a bit harder on the dog's digestive system having both together than separately.
Have you considered Natural Instinct? http://www.naturalinstinct.com/ or Nature's Menu? http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/
William and Louis have Natural Instinct for about 50% of their meals and "DIY raw" from various sources makes up the other 50%. I tried them on Nutriment some months ago and something in it, possibly the coconut oil, made William throw up, so I went back to Natural Instinct. I think there are probably more Natural Instinct stockists around the country than Nutriment stockists, but worth looking at both websites to see if there's a stockist near you.
Nature's Menu is sold in Pets At Home, so could be useful if there's a PAH near you. They don't tend to stock the full range though and personally I wouldn't feed the raw nuggets with rice in them as dogs don't need rice and the meat content is low.
I don't worry about the hygiene aspect. My dogs are fed in the kitchen, which has a vinyl floor, easily cleanable if they dragged their food out of the bowl (but they don't anyway). Their bowls are taken up and washed after every meal using normal washing up liquid and kitchen roll. When I prepare any raw meat, for the dogs or prior to cooking for people, I just stick to basic hygiene rules and I've never had any problems in 4+ years of raw feeding William and Louis or in the 16 years of raw feeding my previous 2 Cockers.
Edited to add: My 2 drink much less water than when they were fed kibble as they get a lot of the moisture they need from the raw food. They also produce less poo and it's easier to clean up and less smelly :005:
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Your comment Elaine about not buying the nuggets as they have rice in them, but I notice the complete raw ones also have rice too (apart from the Chicken & Salmon and Tripe one). Does this mean they are just bulking those up too with rice?
Less drinking and less poo sounds very good to me :lol2:
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I have another query re the rice - if the food is raw - does that mean the rice is too?. Pardon my ignorance - just a thought
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I used to feed raw and used natures menu. The high fat content (my cocker suffered from pancreatitis) meant I had to stop. I did try Archie on it but he wasn't interested. If the hygiene aspect is a worry and you lack freezer space then don't forget you could consider a good quality wet food as an alternative.
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Ah but which ones are high quality? I'm totally bamboozled, what with previously finding a good kibble, now looking at raw and wet!
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Have a look on Which Dog Food
Lily's Kitchen is a good wet food, but it is pricey. Arden Grange do a decent one, we use those as back up tins when I've forgotten to defrost the Natural Instinct and we're in a rush :005: Wainwrights grain free is reasonably priced, Forthglade, Nature's Menu.
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I feed Minstrel Naturediet adult and he is doing well on that £13.96 for 18 390grm trays. ( you need less than the feeding guide would have you think) ;) It is considered a good food on the Which Food Guide, as are those mentioned already.
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I use Wainwrights, both grain free and normal. I don't have a problem with a bit of brown rice in there. I also use Forthglade from time to time. All the ones mentioned by Fluff are good. My Archie was weaned on naturediet and it's what I used in an emergency (I.e. When I forgot to defrost it ph34r) when I raw fed. Archie went off it though and refused to touch it. Probably would eat it now mind you. ;)
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Your comment Elaine about not buying the nuggets as they have rice in them, but I notice the complete raw ones also have rice too (apart from the Chicken & Salmon and Tripe one). Does this mean they are just bulking those up too with rice?
Less drinking and less poo sounds very good to me :lol2:
On the Natures Menu website it says: "Par Boiled Rice is a great non starchy carbohydrate which will give your puppy an easy to digest source of b vitamins and minerals."
if that's of any help to anyone!
We are using the Natures Menu puppy nuggets - Archie seems to love them. Regarding rice, perhaps that's a "puppy thing"? after all, human babies are weaned on "baby rice". Could be that the complete meals for adult dogs don't have rice.
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and now I've realised that I am NOT in the puppy section at the moment so please ignore my irrelevant post ^^^^^^
ph34r
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and now I've realised that I am NOT in the puppy section at the moment so please ignore my irrelevant post ^^^^^^
ph34r
Just to add that Nature diet Adult food has 10% rice in most of it's varieties, 12% in the Fish & the Sensitive. 5% in puppy
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I have just ordered the Nutriment starter pack. I was feeding Wainwrights tray am and raw in evening but thought the Nutriment would be better for breakfast. Looks really good but she won't touch it :huh: probably cos it has liver in it and she doesn't like raw liver. Going to persist though as then I won't wory about her not getting correct vitamins etc :D
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Your comment Elaine about not buying the nuggets as they have rice in them, but I notice the complete raw ones also have rice too (apart from the Chicken & Salmon and Tripe one). Does this mean they are just bulking those up too with rice?
Less drinking and less poo sounds very good to me :lol2:
The view that Nature's Menu apparently takes is that they offer a range of just raw meat (like the 2kg tripe chunks, liver chunks and heart chunks that I sometimes buy), raw meat with bone (the square blocks not described as complete) and the other ranges with veggies or veggies and rice so as to give customers the widest choice possible. I don't think they're just bulking them up for the sake of it, but most raw feeders that I know don't feed rice and probably more than half don't feed veggies either. I do, but not as high a % as they put in Nature's Menu. Having said that, when I started raw it was the most readily obtainable for someone with limited freezer space so I used to select the rice free stuff and with as low a veggie content as I could find. William and Louis certainly did well on it, so I can't really knock it.
If you decide to try Nature's Menu look carefully at the labels before you buy. I think their labelling isn't the clearest with their lamb dinner containing more chicken than lamb for instance! You need to read the ingredients list on the back as well as the name on the front. But it's convenient, UK sourced and in handy sized packages. You could always buy some supermarket chicken or turkey mince to mix in with the Nature's Menu to make it a better ratio of meat and veg.
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Cheers for that :D
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I think nature's menu is prefect to see if it's liked, it's not expensive to by different flavours and it's easy to get (I did this to see which flavours were liked before moving to a proper raw company).
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I had nearly finished swopping Bob onto natures menu, using both nuggets and the blocks the then he got what the vet said was colitis or haemmorhagic gastritis. I don't know if it was caused by bacteria in puddles or food, but he is now back on Eden. Also when on the raw , he didn't seem to be digesting the tiny bits of bone. I still give him titbits of our human quality meat raw, but, Natures Menu left me slightly concerned. When it is prepared in a factory, frozen, driven, stacked in freezers, driven again to my freezer, there is always a chance for bugs to get a hold.
If I start feeding raw again ,I will only buy fresh meat.
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I had nearly finished swopping Bob onto natures menu, using both nuggets and the blocks the then he got what the vet said was colitis or haemmorhagic gastritis. I don't know if it was caused by bacteria in puddles or food, but he is now back on Eden. Also when on the raw , he didn't seem to be digesting the tiny bits of bone. I still give him titbits of our human quality meat raw, but, Natures Menu left me slightly concerned. When it is prepared in a factory, frozen, driven, stacked in freezers, driven again to my freezer, there is always a chance for bugs to get a hold.
If I start feeding raw again ,I will only buy fresh meat.
I'm sorry Bob had problems, but to be fair to Nature's Menu they've been a reputable supplier of raw for a very long time and they deliver their frozen raw to shops and to customers who've ordered online for home delivery in their own refrigerated vans. No system is ever perfect but in my opinion there's just as much scope for a dog to pick up bacteria from shop bought raw meat, or kibble or anything they come into contact with on walks :D
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hi my girl is on nutriment now. I started her on the chicken formula for the first 2 weeks, now she is on the salmon. its easy to manage just weigh the right amount and feed. I had my worries about raw but this way it is so easy, no mess. they have been a great company and answered all my questions, they have a facebook page where you can get info and ask questions. hope this helps.
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Thanks for your reply, it's helpful to hear some positive comments :D