CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Feeding => Topic started by: Geordietyke on February 28, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
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Sorry everyone, another food/poo related question! Archie has been on Simpsons Grain Free Sensitive Lamb and Potato since the beginning of January. He absolutely loves it and wolfs it down in seconds but as per the Simpsons rep I spoke to, is only being fed 125g a day, which looks really pathetic over 2 meals....
Anyway, he is still producing 3/4 fairly large, soft(ish) poos a day, according to the rep, he should be doing only 2 'normal' ones.
I was thinking about changing him to the Simpsons 80/20 range, which has 38% protein (as opposed to the current 25%).
My main question is, does a higher protein level mean more retained and less waste or is it down to other factors? I'm wavering on Eden too, but that is 41% protein and I've read it can take up to 6 months for dogs to 'detox', resulting in squashy poos, which I want to eliminate in the first place!
I was also thinking of Nutriment (raw) but I still have issues about bugs etc being on and around the dog's mouth/tongue, transferring as he licks either us or other objects (toys etc) and how to successfully ensure nothing is contaminated. Lesley
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It can do if they process and utilise more of the food. However, there seems to be a bit of a drive at the moment to feed dogs some or other 'magic' food so they produce almost no waste. They are dogs, all are different and process different foods differently. Some dogs will produce more waste than others. There is no magic potion that will result in a poo-free dog. Personally, am not convinced that these super high protein foods are best (especially for pets who may not necessarily need such high protein ratios in their diet), and fibre/roughage does paly a part in a balanced diet. But that is just my opinion. Am sure there will be responses from those that feed them and have good results and drastically reduced waste output.
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When Minstrel was going through a stage of sloppy poos, my vet suggested a bit of bonemeal (dog type - not the stuff you put on the roses ;) ) and it did work, I only had to use a little amount on his food once a day for a week and then when required.
It certainly helped, but I don't think it tasted that good, if the smell was anything to go by. (Mind you it was easier to mix in and disguise in wet food than in kibble of any brand)
Now he is on the adult Nature diet sloppy poos don't seem to be a problem.
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Hi Lesley,
It's a good question, and I don't really have a straight answer, but it raises the following thoughts. Firstly, I'm sure you're right to say there are many more factors than the percentage of protein, and that may not be the most significant one. Raw-fed dogs will be on a high protein diet and we are constantly told how little waste they produce. I believe that dogs convert any excess proteins (over that which is required for body building functions) into energy. If they are being fed the right amount they will use the energy in activity. If they are being overfed, it will mean they tend to put on weight but I don't see why it should translate into more in the way of poo. The actual requirement for protein in an adult dog is not that high (around 20% or less I think) but they evolved on a higher protein diet and can cope fine with more protein as described above.
Whenever I've talked to my vet about sloppy poos (!) he usually talks about hyper-motility. This is (I believe) is to do with the transit time of the waste through the bowel. Presumably, if it races through, less moisture (and nutrients) will be taken out and the result is bulkier, softer waste. If this is excessive it is probably described as colitis.
My own experience suggests that some dogs might be fairly sensitive to components in certain foods and that this leads to hyper-motility and soft poo. Certainly for Lenny, I worked out that beef causes a real problem. He appears to be intolerant of (not allergic to) beef and it causes diarrhoea. I have tried a few kibbles and on Eden, for instance, he was fairly soft but on ToTW he produces firm stools.
I would try some more kibbles to see what the result is. (I'm not sure where the comment about detoxing for 6 months came from, but I would think it is highly dubious. Anything that mentions detox usually is.)
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Sorry, I misread your question and therefore garbled my answer. You're asking whether higher protein content means less waste. I still think what I said is relevant and my conclusion stays the same. As an example of what I have found, Orijen is 38% protein and seems to give more waste than ToTW at 32% protein. I say "seems" because you need to make sure everything else is equal. For example, if I were giving beef as a treat it might well irritate his bowel and distort the effect of the food itself. Given that dogs often scavenge, that is the kind of thing that makes this type of test difficult.
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The girls do two poops a day........no matter what they are on. ph34r
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Thanks for your replies. How I wish my cockers only produced 2 poos a day :lol2: Odie never did either but I managed to get him reasonable with JWB.
John51 - the detox info came from a rep from Eden themselves but not sure if that's to convince owners to keep on trying their food for longer..... It seems strange that other foods need no special detoxing.
I wonder if adding further fibre would help? The kibbles I've looked at seem to be between 2.5-5% max.
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I didn't see any reduction in poo when Ellie was on the 80/20 but the feeding amounts are alot less too. I fed more I kibble when she was Arden grange but she went off it and I decided to move to grain free.
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I dont think it means less waste on a high protein food.
We used to feed Ruby Burns breakfast and raw evening meal and her poos were firm, reasonably small and usually 2 per day.
Someone then gave me a bag of Barking Heads and thought i'd give it a try as it is good quality high protein kibble and quite frankly it was the worst thing i have ever done.
Ruby had many sloppy poos that were that bad she pooed blood......this led to anal gland trouble that she had never had before and it hasnt been the same since so needless to say i took her off of this food as it was just too rich for her, it also caused a bit of weight gain though it does warn you of this on their website.
Ive rambled on. But i guess it just depends on the dogs digestive system. :-\
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Yes, I guess it's how the dog's system processes each food. I may try another flavour, lamb may be not suiting him.
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It might be worth adding fibre. I've never heard of bonemeal but have used bran on dog food in the past. All in all I'd still be inclined to try another brand, or as you say, flavour of kibble.
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It might be worth adding fibre. I've never heard of bonemeal but have used bran on dog food in the past. All in all I'd still be inclined to try another brand, or as you say, flavour of kibble.
Have to admit, John, nor had I (at least not for dogs) but you can find and buy it on Amazon if you put in 'bonemeal for dogs'.
as I say probably better added to wet food or raw - because of the smell & taste
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If ever Riley had soft poop,s we added a tablespoon of pureed pumpkin (available in tins) to his food to firm him up, its easy digestable and good for the dogs too. Worked a treat. (He is on eden)
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Have to admit, John, nor had I (at least not for dogs) but you can find and buy it on Amazon if you put in 'bonemeal for dogs'.
Thanks for that. I see that bonemeal is recommended for use in homemade diets because of its range of nutrients. Also, if it doesn't do anything for the dog, at least you'll have a good display of roses. :D
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Sorry to come to this a bit late but .... Not sure that the amount of protein affects how much waste a dog produces but more the amount of fillers in the particular dog food? If the food is high in corn, maize, wheat etc I think this would have more bearing on the amount of waste they produce, maybe.
I used to feed kibble, which has to really have some fillers to bind it together, and had 2/3 poos a day but since switching to a complete raw food (Nutriment/Natural Instinct) Abbi now only does 1 (sometimes 2) poos a day, which are always firm. This has crushed bone in it which probably acts in the same way as adding bone meal to a wet or dry food.
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My vet recommended edible bonemeal for Minstrel when he was on puppy naturediet - cos his poos were loose, and it certainly helped him - they became really firm. Since changing to adult n/d we have not had any probs in that dept. Not sure if it was the amounts or something different in puppy that is not in adult.
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I think if raw fed the protein goes to build muscle and the fat for energy . Anything not required comes out the other end. Raw food contains a lot of water so the protein content is not as high as people assume.
I feed Nutriment and raw and have not had any problems with bugs etc. Usually two beautifully formed poos a day :005: but dependant on whether she has stolen eggs, the cat's dinner or found discarded pizza on a walk :D
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How's Archie doing now? I was wondering about him and hoping that things must have improved.
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Hi, yes things are good poo wise :shades:
I changed his kibble to the 80/20 Simpsons range with higher protein and he is producing on average 2 poos a day and all firm!!
On the downside, they are very smelly and when he trumps (which he didn't do before), he can clear a room :005:
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Hi, yes things are good poo wise :shades:
I changed his kibble to the 80/20 Simpsons range with higher protein and he is producing on average 2 poos a day and all firm!!
On the downside, they are very smelly and when he trumps (which he didn't do before), he can clear a room :005:
Glad things have improved - at least that is a little less work for you :D re the trumping - you'll have to teach him to do it on command - for any guests that outstay their welcome :lol2:
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Or...You could swap him for my other half who has the same...err...'talent' ph34r :005:
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Or...You could swap him for my other half who has the same...err...'talent' ph34r :005:
:005: :005: :005:
Glad things with Archie are better, if a teeny bit smelly! ph34r
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Whenever I hear or read about trumping pooches - it reminds me of the James Herriot tale re a pongy boxer :lol2:
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He he :lol2: I think trumping is a particular talent of many of the male variety (in my family anyway ph34r)
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Whenever I hear or read about trumping pooches - it reminds me of the James Herriot tale re a pongy boxer :lol2:
Cedric the Boxer. I can still remember how much I laughed when I read that particular story many years ago. Definitely a recommended read :lol2:
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Whenever I hear or read about trumping pooches - it reminds me of the James Herriot tale re a pongy boxer :lol2:
Cedric the Boxer. I can still remember how much I laughed when I read that particular story many years ago. Definitely a recommended read :lol2:
That's the one - though I doubt kibble (high protein or otherwise) would have caused his probs. :D