CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: kate2 on November 07, 2014, 10:19:49 PM
-
I'm starting to worry now :( we got our two girls 4 weeks ago, they are 3.5 year old ex breeding bitches. They came with a large bag of puppy food ??? and when we asked how much they were fed we were told a "cup full" twice a day
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/673/9BbDDw.jpg)(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/905/OvKZxe.jpg)
After a lot of research I opted to swap them onto Burns, and have subsequently bought two 15kg bags of the chicken + rice kibble, which they seemed to be doing well on, they were weighed at the vets two weeks ago and their weight was :
13.6kg - kiwi
12.1kg - Lilly
However I was noticing sloppy poops in the afternoon, and on asking on here and Burns direct I found out I had been over feeding :-[ as I was giving them 200g each per day
I reduced this gradually on the advice of Burns to 140-150g per day, but the Burns adviser did say "if they start losing weight they may need to go onto Burns Active"
Well I've just weighed them on the same scales and they have both lost quite a bit of weight:
12.75kg - kiwi
11.6kg - Lilly
I don't want to increase the amounts back up to 200g again as I was told it was too much, but I'm scared they are now underweight ??? :'(
I'm not sure what the expected weights are? I've just measured them, Kiwi is 16" high x 20" long (chest to base of tail), Lilly is 15" high x 19" long, both with a 22" girth under the armpits - is there an "average weight" for a working cocker of that size please?
I'm no expert but they do look a bit thin??
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/746/qxGdYv.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/538/OdixIG.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/743/8YK3Ig.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/913/ISOH0P.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/910/sAheF8.jpg)
Should I swap them onto Burns Active? or is that a marketing ploy by Burns and do I drop Burns completely and try something else? If so what? there is so much information for and against every brand of food that I'm not sure what to try next??
They do have extra "high value" treats and chews, etc as well as their meals so shouldn't be dropping too much weight :-\ They are also still very active and bouncy, although I noticed Lilly eating poo this week which I hadn't noticed before - another indication that Burns is not right for them
Help please?? :(
-
your black girl looks abit skinny.
our vet recommended that gemma lost some weight and get to 8kg. at the time she was on burns salmon. we got her to that weight and she had a waist like your girl and was bony. we were not happy so changed to Skinners field and trial salmon for working dogs and she has 1/3rd cup twice a day.
she still weighs in at 8kg but has filled out nicely . there is no set weight for dogs. if you think they are too thin, increase their food.
ps gemma is and always has been a pooh eater regardless of what she is fed
pps have they been wormed lately
-
The black dog looks too thin. Burns would not be my choice of dry food - skinners would be worth a try :D
-
Burns active is actually cheaper than normal burns, you don't pay vat because it's classed as working dog food. So I don't think its a marketing ploy by them to get u to change the kibble. They do look a bit thin to me, if u pop to the vets, ours have a free weighing m/c and would be able to tell you if they needed to put on weight. ;)
We give ours burns but supplement it with raw veggies and stuff. Henry loves raw carrots and broccoli, strangely.
-
I like slim dogs, but I think the black one looks quite skinny and they've lost a lot of weight in the 2 weeks they've been on Burns, looking at the weights you've written down.
If they were mine I'd be changing them from Burns to something else immediately before they lose any more weight. I'm a raw feeder, but if I was going to feed kibble I'd be looking for one that had a named meat as the main ingredient, not meat derivatives and not rice or any other grain.
Don't worry too much, because they should put weight on once you find the right food for them, but try not to let them lose any more.
-
I like my dogs lean and don't go on actual weight but look and feel - to me your black girl is looking thinner than I would want. Looking at the puppy food they were on it's going to be a lot higher in protein than the Burns food so they won't be getting the same amount of usable energy from the food. So to me it makes sense that they would need a larger amount. As for the sloppy poos I'd be trying to split the food into smaller meals through the day, either by doing it as 3 meals or using part of their food ration as treats out on walks
Have a look at this site: http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/
It gives you a really good comparison of foods and you can alter it to your budget. It gives great descriptions of the ingredients in the foods. I feed raw and dry and found my dry food (millies wolfheart) on here as I need a grain free one for my boys.
Dry food wise (before i went more raw) I've used skinners, CSJ, Arden grange and fish 4 dogs and been happy with them, at least for my non-grain intolerant girl! If you do decide to change a tip would be to try to buy a smaller bag. You want to have them on a food at least 2-4 weeks to see how they do on it before investing in the 15kg sacks
-
I agree with the others, the black girl is definitely a bit thin.
I feed raw but I would not take too much notice of recommended feeding amounts - dogs vary so much. I just judge by eye if Coco is the right weight or not - and then I weigh her when I get the chance, so I know what her ideal weight is. I have seen a few posts on here about Burns and dogs losing weight on it, so a different food might suit them better.
The general rule for telling if you dog is the right weight is:
Looking from above, they should have a clearly defined waist and you should be able to feel their ribs but not see them. The black one's waistline is too pronounced for my liking.
If you want to build them up a bit, raw tripe is good for putting on weight for skinny dogs. I presume your girls are getting more exercise than they were at the breeder, so they will need more food. ;)
-
Before we changed to Raw feeding we used Skinners Field and Trial, it's a working dog kibble so Vat free and Bea always did well on it.
Bea was not impressed with the texture of Raw at the start , the lady in the shop recommended
Canagan as a extra meal so she did not loose any weight, I've just checked it on http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/the-dog-food-directory and it has a good score.
We have the salmon one which she loves but we only use it as a treat as she is now happily eating Raw.
I would recommend both and to use the information on the side of the packed as a guide, if they are loosing weight add a little more and see how they go, you will soon get used to how much they need rather then what the packet says.
-
I have spent the last few months trying to build my Archie, who is a show type, up as he looked pretty similar to your black dog. His hip bones protruded and ribs stuck out. Even though he has a fluffy coat, it was very noticeable so I've been feeding him about a 3rd more food (changed it during this time as well). He is now putting on weight but at his skinniest, he weighed 11kg, which sounds OK but he looked horrible. He is now around 11.7kg and looking much better. He is 16" tall. I do think it's due in part to him always being on the go and he must just have a high metabolism!
I will say that I've been trying various foods, grain free and higher protein ones, and whilst excellent quality (and pricy), they did not suit him, it gave him the runs. I have settled on a lamb one with around 20%, which is great, I was advised to try duck and fish but both were a no go. It has taken me quite a while to work out which one is best for him personally.
-
I think it is trial and error as far as food and amounts. we also waded through most brands until we found one that suited.
-
I agree the black girl looks a bit thin. If you were to go purely on weight I would say around the 12-13kg is about right for those girls.
A lot of people find that they can't keep the weight on their dogs on Burns - I am not sure what it is in this brand that makes this happen?
My girl is same age and identical height, her girth is a bit bigger but when last weighed she was 12.6kg. She looks about right at this weight.
Hope this helps.
-
I agree with others they both look a bit too thin.
I used to feed my dogs on Burns and could never hold the weight on them. The same thing if I increased the food, sloppy poo's !!!
I think I would try a different brand, any good quality brand that suits your dogs.
I had a show type gold boy who couldn't tolerate anything with chicken in it. We settled on Lamb in the end but still had to try several different brands until we found that James Wellbeloved suited him and the weight stayed on.
All dogs are different and sometimes it'll be trial and error as to which type of food suits the dogs.
Usually the cheaper brands have more cereal than meat so it's a matter of you get what you pay for.
Many prefer to feed Raw it's up to you.
My girls were usually between 11.5 kg to 13kg depending on the height. If they look right then you're feeding the right amount.
-
Too thin :o I know you should see a waist & feel ribs & they are workers but your black one particularly does look rather skinny. Can you face "Raw"
Is their worming up-to-date.
-
thanks for all the replies :) I'll see if the pet supplies place will take back one of the unopened 15kg bags of Burns! but I don't think I'll buy in bulk again till I find something that definitely suits.
The breeder advised they are due to be next wormed on 17th November, and because they had puppies in August were wormed quite a lot before/after then (13/06/2014 milbemax, 16/07/2014 each day till 08/08/2014, then every 2 weeks with pups (panacur)), but I will be getting some milbemax chewable to worm them next week when they are due :)
Looking at the replies Skinners looks like the next one to try, but this only gets ratings of 3.5/5 on the allaboutdogfood website? I dont think we're quite ready for Raw yet :-[
-
Looking at the replies Skinners looks like the next one to try, but this only gets ratings of 3.5/5 on the allaboutdogfood website?
As long as the food you choose is of good quality and not too full of nasties, it is a question of which food suits your own dogs best rather than the ratings ;) You will only find this out by trial and error :-\ There are plenty of good dry foods out there - Barking Heads, Arden Grange, JWB, Taste of the Wild etc etc. One of these is bound to suit your girls
-
Is it the black one that is more fearful and trembles (which could be adrenalin related)? It could also be that she is quite anxious and easily stressed - dogs like these can drop weight easily.
The poo eating again is something that is not uncommon with Burns eaters ;)
This relates more to your previous post but have a look at this article about dogs and stress http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/3_1/features/Easing-Your-Dogs-Stress_5031-1.html (http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/3_1/features/Easing-Your-Dogs-Stress_5031-1.html)
Remember that the allaboutdogfood website is just a guide like anything on the internet - it's certainly not the definitive answer to everything and while it gives good advice it is only opinion. As Joules said it's what your individual dogs thrive on that is the best food for them ;)
-
Thanks Helen, yes that was Kiwi, although she hasn't trembled since and we've met several other dogs out on walks in the last few days (big and small) and she's been fine with all of them, so I'm not sure what it was about that other dog!!
She is the most "alert" of the pair, always scanning the horizon when out whereas Lilly watches you all the time, so she could be anxious, although she's snoring on the sofa at the mo!
They have both dropped the same amount of weight though and Lilly is definitely more chilled out
I went back to the pet supplies and they didn't have skinners (although can get it ordered), so I have taken his recommendation and got a small bag of Simpsons Premium 45% lamb to try, and some raw tripe :)
Will see if any improvement after I have gradually swapped onto that, otherwise will order in some skinners :)
-
I've never weighed or measured food, just give a couple of handfuls to each, increasing or decreasing when necessary, by looking at them, I like them both on the slim side, particularly Ben because of his joints. Harry sometimes drops weight and can look skinny so I add in some scrambled eggs or weetabix, veg, cooked chicken, sardines etc as and when. Mine didn't look good on Burns at all so swopped to JWB and more recently to wainwrights
-
The black one looks to thin to me as well.
My working cocker Gabby was very thin on Burns but soon put on weight when I changed to Arden Grange.
-
Just to be on the safe side you could maybe get some poo samples off to Wormcount.com to check that they're completely worm free.
That way you can rule any internal nasties out of the equation and concentrate on getting them onto a food that agrees with them. Our two, one show, one worker, are fed on Acana and Orijen and, over the past few years, have done really well on them.
Bob.
-
I understand some manufacturers will send out free samples ;)