CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Patp on April 17, 2016, 07:19:46 PM
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Jinley is getting increasingly aggressive towards other dogs that she does not know well and doesnt like her space invaded at all.
On my daily walks she is all okay with the dogs we regularly walk with and does not create a fuss when treats are being handed out etc, but when we are out and about and another dog comes near us for a fuss or in her space she launches at them. Not sure how far it would escalate to, but it does make for a tense time.
Has anybody experienced anything similar? Any ideas what I could try or is it time to see a behaviorist?
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Just over two weeks ago Ollie did the same thing, a lab came into his space to say hello and he launched himself at it, managing to bite an ear! It was a couple of days prior to him going blind in one eye. It's probably worth having a vet check.
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Gemma is very anti if a dog invades her space.But its not all dogs. if she does the approaching ( initiates the bum sniffing etc) then most times she will be alright. But to be honest very rarely do we allow her to run with dogs unless she is working. Mostly it is just air snapping but I can not be sure.
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Sorry Pat but that doesnt sound like the Jinley I know - think its worth a check at Donnington (Liz now in Ludlow)
Hope shes ok
Xx
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I have this with Maddie. I have worked really hard counter conditioning her to other dogs. We can walk past them quite close now and I can keep her attention, but I avoid close contact nearly all the time.
However, off lead dogs bouncing over to us are our biggest problem now. I have managed to keep her below threshold for months. Today, due to unfortunate timing, a woman let her great dane sized dog into the field as we reached the gate too. It just flew over to Maddie, who flipped and chased it, snarling and jumping at it. She has become fear aggressive.
You mentioned treats in your post. Is she guarding do you think or fearful?
Bramble doesn't like her space invaded but also guards me and treats.
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I think Gemma's is fear based
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I think it's fear based and she can be very needy at times but definitely going to get her checked at the vets so that I can rule anything untoward out.
She is a guarder around other dogs, Fox poo, holes that she has dug etc but quite happy to present us and any human visitors with a bone or toy at home.
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Pips is fear aggressive too - I've worked to change her association to unknown dogs by teaching her to look at me when she sees a dog which then gets a big reward. I found the book "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons invaluable, it explains point by point how to help build confidence around dogs. Behaviour Adjustment Training (BAT) by Grisha Stewart is also very good. There are lots of YouTube videos of people using the BAT techinque.
As it's a new thing a vet check sounds like a good idea as a good behaviourist would insist on a vet referral anyway. A behaviourist should also be able to identify the cause, as lescef said, fear based or guarding etc...
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Sounds like a behaviourist would be best way forward so that you can establish whether it's fear or guarding.
They're complicated little souls aren't they?!
So a vet check first. If you need a behaviourist it might be worth trying to think of things that have happened to make her fearful in the past. Let us know how you get on. X
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Jinley has always seemed so laid back bless her. Don't know what to advise Pat but Bonnie isn't as tolerant of other dogs in her space now. I've put it down to fear as we've had a few incidents of dogs bounding over to her and they have scared her, to the point of her squealing (Des had a few choice words for the other owner ;)). I now think she's fearful and reactive if dogs approach. Hope you get some answers either from the vet or a behaviourist xxx
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Pips is fear aggressive too - I've worked to change her association to unknown dogs by teaching her to look at me when she sees a dog which then gets a big reward. I found the book "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons invaluable, it explains point by point how to help build confidence around dogs. Behaviour Adjustment Training (BAT) by Grisha Stewart is also very good. There are lots of YouTube videos of people using the BAT techinque.
Does the Click to Calm cover all aspects of excitment or just fear related problems? I'm just wondering if it might help Humphrey deal with training classes better - there's no signs of agression, but he gets himself into an uncontrollable hyper state at times.
Its occured to me that all the dogs mentioned so far in this thread are bitches - could the fear agression be something hormonal or is it just coincidence?, :-\
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Pips is fear aggressive too - I've worked to change her association to unknown dogs by teaching her to look at me when she sees a dog which then gets a big reward. I found the book "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons invaluable, it explains point by point how to help build confidence around dogs. Behaviour Adjustment Training (BAT) by Grisha Stewart is also very good. There are lots of YouTube videos of people using the BAT techinque.
Does the Click to Calm cover all aspects of excitment or just fear related problems? I'm just wondering if it might help Humphrey deal with training classes better - there's no signs of agression, but he gets himself into an uncontrollable hyper state at times.
Its occured to me that all the dogs mentioned so far in this thread are bitches - could the fear agression be something hormonal or is it just coincidence?, :-\
It is aimed at nervous/aggressive dogs who 'overreact' in the presence of others but I think you could possibly use elements for over-excitement. The basis of the book is to teach the dog some behaviours which are incompatible with a reaction, such as a look (at you), sit, targeting your hand or an object etc... once the dog has solidly learnt these you can then use them in the presence of things which normally cause a reaction so that they remain focussed on you. I guess in theory you could teach Humphrey to do these "foundation behaviours" (what they're called in the book) as a way of focussing on you when he gets overexcited??
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Jinley sounds very much like Murphy. He exhibits both guarding and fear aggression with other dogs.
The fear side is easy to spot in his body language. If a strange dog approaches he will stop and lick his lips. He might also turn away. If the dog still decides to approach he will chase it away, snarling. He has never bitten another dog. He also does not like another dog pulling at the lead to get to him, even if it is just excited to say hello.
I have been walking Murphy on his lead recently and I have noticed that he seems much happier not being put on positions where he will meet other dogs. He will happily walk past another dog which is 3 feet away with no reaction at all.
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Because I am working with Henry on the long lead at the moment, I have become much more aware of the number of off-lead dogs that approach us. Some of them 'play' quite aggressively. He is very submissive, but also doesn't seem bothered by very rough play, even though he doesn't reciprocate. Is that likely to change as he gets older? Are there things I can do now while it doesn't bother him to reinforce his current attitude? I already practice getting him to focus on me when I want him to ignore something or someone going past. And when he's on the lead and straining to say hello to another dog I get him to sit and wait for the other dog to approach. If it doesn't, we walk on and I give him lots of praise for waiting quietly.
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Sounds very similar to Honey.
One thing I have found is that being in a position where she had to share treats was fine while the treats were coming, but it created a build up of tension which then showed itself once the treats were away...
With Honey it is a mixture of guarding and fear - it started through guarding, but a couple of bad experiences also led to some fear in specific circumstances... then that kind of mixed into one issue. She's a lot less fearful than she was, but probably more guardy with other dogs. She generally avoids meeting other dogs, but can cope with a quick hello from a sensible dog.
I also find if she has been in a stressful situation, she is much more likely to react to any other dog (no matter how nice they are!) which is worth keeping an eye on.
We've done a lot of careful work on counter-conditioning, but can't use the clicker out and about as it makes her more prone to guarding. She is much better off lead, as she can avoid dogs she doesn't trust...
I would definately get a check at the vets (Honey is much grumpier if she's feeling stiff) and consult a behaviourist. There can be so many subtle signs to read which would give you a much clearer idea of the issue.
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Because I am working with Henry on the long lead at the moment, I have become much more aware of the number of off-lead dogs that approach us. Some of them 'play' quite aggressively. He is very submissive, but also doesn't seem bothered by very rough play, even though he doesn't reciprocate. Is that likely to change as he gets older? Are there things I can do now while it doesn't bother him to reinforce his current attitude? I already practice getting him to focus on me when I want him to ignore something or someone going past. And when he's on the lead and straining to say hello to another dog I get him to sit and wait for the other dog to approach. If it doesn't, we walk on and I give him lots of praise for waiting quietly.
I think you are right to try and prevent any deterioration. Maddie was never like this until about two and a half. Henry may be a dog who never gets upset by other dogs as I'm sure some of our problem is partly character, but I also take some of the blame for not realising a problem was developing.
You are right to ask for calm behaviour before greeting a dog. Pulling on the end of the lead makes them into frustrated greeters which then can tip over into aggression. Now I would also ask if that dog is friendly towards other dogs.
I do the three second sniff with Bramble do that she doesn't feel like she has no escape from another dog.
However, it's the off lead dogs running up to us that have caused our problems and that is more difficult to fix.
I just try to fend them off. You can teach your dog to stand behind your legs so that you can protect them a bit.
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I also find if she has been in a stressful situation, she is much more likely to react to any other dog (no matter how nice they are!) which is worth keeping an eye on.
I read it can take days for a dog to get the fear and stress out of their system after a bad encounter. I know it took murphy a few days to return to normal, if Murphy actually has a normal :shades: after his run in with the Husky.
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Thinking about this a bit more, Miss J is generally very chilled, relaxed and has little interest in other dogs. Could it be as simple as - Jinley is on a walk and would rather not be bothered by other dogs and is just making it clear to them?
I'm finding as I get older I know what I like and more importantly what I don't.......
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Thinking about this a bit more, Miss J is generally very chilled, relaxed and has little interest in other dogs. Could it be as simple as - Jinley is on a walk and would rather not be bothered by other dogs and is just making it clear to them?
I'm finding as I get older I know what I like and more importantly what I don't.......
Now that is Bramble! I just don't want her behaviour to escalate into aggression.
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Thinking about this a bit more, Miss J is generally very chilled, relaxed and has little interest in other dogs. Could it be as simple as - Jinley is on a walk and would rather not be bothered by other dogs and is just making it clear to them?
I'm finding as I get older I know what I like and more importantly what I don't.......
On a walk she still shows little interest in dogs going her doing her own thing. Its when we are sitting on a bench, or at the pub or in a restaurant that she "owns" the air around us which makes for a very tense time!
Making an appointment at her new vets this week to rule anything else out.
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Our Suki is like this. (Not a cocker I know, but still adorable!)
On walks she is fine. Since she was a baby she knew she could out run most dogs in the park (she is a saluki x greyhound) but chose not to. If anything scared her she would run to me and hide or ask me to pick her up. Cute when she was a baby, not so cute when fully grown. :005:
She is 11 now and can be quite grumpy but still fine on walks. However, if we go to shows or anywhere that we sit down and have a rest/picnic or something, she won't let any dogs within touching distance of us. It is not too difficult to handle as we are obviously very aware she will do this and we are on our guard but can look quite scary to any dogs who get too close (she is always on lead in these circumstances so we keep her lead short enough that she can't actually get to any dogs who venture too close)
Hope all is well with your gorgeous girl.
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I have same with Bosley (sprocker boy who's now 2 and a half) and usually with larger dogs as he's fine with smaller dogs - he had a poor start plus lacks confidence. All of this not helped by him then going temporarily blind in one eye when he was 2 then Wilf my cocker dying (Wilf was confident and the boss of the house).
I have recently been working with him on a basic level - if he's onlead he's far worse so I try to not put him onlead if we're on a walk. Am successfully getting him to come over and sit by me for which he gets a treat so he's now learning a little. When I can afford it will take him on a prickly pooches course a local behaviourist runs.
I have also been reading up on the subject as I know he's not a bad dog just scared (I watched 15 minutes of a growl class Ian Dunbar has done which gave a good pointer) + Bosley isn't helped by stupid owners allowing their dogs to jump on his head uninvited. He's never bitten another dog but it does sound like he's going to rip their heads of when he shouts at them and chases them away.
The one thing I discovered is that he is becoming more responsive to me when he's stressed as that was one area I worked on most and listening to an owner at times like this is so important. The thing that makes me smile and really hopeful is he's keen to learn and he looks so pleased with himself when we've averted a problem (that bit makes my heart melt). Its nowhere near there but I can see we're heading mostly in the right direction + when I call him to me when yet another owner lets their dog bound over sometimes the owner will see what am doing so I then shout he's a scaredy boy and often that works well.
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How is Jinley doing?
My cocker Fosco is 3 and sounds a bit like Jinley and Honey mentioned above. She guards me and isn't interested in other dogs, doesn't want to play, only interested in sniffing. I feel a bit frustrated some days because she doesn't seem like a "normal" dog - not interested in tennis balls or playing with other dogs. She wants to be with me or my husband, and is quite happy sniffing everything. She will bark when she meets other dogs - some days it's a bark to say hello (in her own way), others she doesn't anyone to get too close. But while I know she isn't aggressive, the barking can put people off. I had one person pick up his very small (handbag-size) dog and run away when Fosco barked. I felt awful.