CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: WPB on June 05, 2016, 08:32:27 PM
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I am a new cocker owner and first time dog owner. Both my husband and I are recently retired so around most of the time. We have had the puppy a week. He is a show cocker and now 9 weeks old. He has a crate which he is using at night and I get up to let him out twice every night. I am sleeping near him. We have a pen in the kitchen but every time he goes in there so I can get on with stuff he goes berserk- he whines, howls and barks non stop and wees even though he was taken out before going in there. I know to leave him so he is not being rewarded for creating a fuss and to wait til he is quiet for 10 seconds- the problem is that he never quiet. It's getting me down a bit to be honest. He has been pretty good in his crate but again when I put him in there today he peed and pood even though he had been out not long before. Any ideas or reassurance?
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Hello to you and " mystery" pup. Also welcome to the brave new world of the many.
Its hard for all new mums and dads, and can be a shocker.
Your little lad is a teeny tot, his world has just changed in the blink of an eye. He needs time to adjust as you do. The main thing is (as you will find out by the new puppy owners who will be along shortly after they have managed a much needed cat nap while pup is asleep)is that your pup is completely normal . They do make a lot of noise, mess etc. But once over this stage, and it will end, you and OH will be rewarded with your bestest friend, companion ever. Its a long time since I went through puppy hood but I can help with the therapy side ---- chocolate and wine, lots of wine
Hang on in there :003:
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Hi,
Welcome.We are newish puppy owners too.This site is great, couldnt have coped without it.Our Rosie hated the crate, then had a horrendous upset tum and so was never crate trained. I had nights sleeping downstairs with Her, it seemed She would never be toilet trained over night, in fact At 7 months She really has only now got to grips with that.Still really trying to find food that doesn't upset Her, the places where She has deposited unpickupable poos are too many too mention.She is completely nuts but so bright.Her recall is great, sits, stands, waits, greets people by sitting at their feet,We have started Agility club and because of Rosie have met lovely people.The crate has been put away, She sleeps on a bed in the lounge.There are teeth marks in the skirting boards, the post has to be left in the porch, ( eats it) I could go on ,but what I am saying is hang in there.We had times when We thought what have We done but We wouldnt be without Her now, She is an absolute joy.And if you have a problem ask on here, someone will have an answer for you.
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I can second that! Humphrey was a year old this week and I can't believe its a whole year since I was going through what you are now and wondering what on earth I'd done!!!! The first couple of weeks can be a bit trying but he'll eventually settle down and the joy he'll reward you with, will make up for it all a thousandfold later.
You'll get lots of support, encouragement and good advice on here, so stick with us and we'll help you through 😉. This community has saved my sanity on several occasions!
Welcome on board, we look forward to seeing pictures and hearing more! :D
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Hi. We got our third cocker when I retired, but we hadn't had a puppy for 16 years. It was a complete shock to the system, we had forgotten just how much hard work they can be. But we survived and went on to get another one a year later!
He really is only a baby and still settling in to a new routine. Try to ignore the mess. >:D
When ours were little I would make sure that I had played with them before I put them in their crate so that they were tired. I also bought a puppy kong that I filled with banana and froze and gave them when I put them in the crate. It's all about distraction and them learning to cope on their own. You can buy several interactive toys to keep them occupied.
I remember Maddie not wanting to stay in her crate and howling. Trying to catch the quiet nano second was so difficult.
Cockers can be determined little dogs, but try and enjoy the puppy stage it goes by so quickly.
Wine and chocolate definitely help!
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He is just really NFC, normal for cocker. :blink: They are incredibly sensitive as a breed and in the last week the world he knew (Mum, siblings, sights and smells of home) have been stolen from him. Puppies mainly are lonely and scared at this stage- that's how nature made them because they're too vulnerable to survive unaided.
I personally have never used a crate. I'd try a puppy pen if you must but as has been said, play with him, wait till he's calm and then give him a time-out with a kong for distraction. If you are being driven mad as you say you can be sure he's picking that up. I know it's hard but calm, calm, calm around all young dogs. Dogs who urinate and defecate in the circumstances you describe are stressed. He's not being 'naughty' or trying to be difficult. He's saying Help! You're all I've got now and I can't cope! :'(
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First of all - DON'T PANIC. I had never had a dog before we got Henry at 8 weeks old and the first few weeks were completely exhausting. Every pup is different and brings its own challenges, but some things are universal. Here you will find great advice on both the specific and the general.
Going back to your OP - have you trained the pup to 'like' the pen? Like crate training, I think you need to build up positive experiences so instead of the pup thinking: 'Oh no, this is where I go when my people don't want to be with me.' the pup thinks: 'Oh goody, this is the place where I eat my yummy meals, or this is the place where I get those super awesome treats, or get to play with that crazy Kong thing.' You can start with leaving the door open and work up to closing it for just a few seconds, then a bit longer, until pup doesn't care if it's opened or closed. Sorry if you have already done this, just wanted to check.
There were plenty of times in the early days that I wondered what the hell we'd let ourselves in for. Walking Henry today, watching him bound through the long grass and come back to us, ears a-flapping, or a goofy grin on his face as he popped out of the woods in front of us where we weren't expecting him - it's so worth it.
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Hi, I can totally relate, having had 3 cockers, the 2nd one hated his crate and messed in it so bad that I had to abandon it altogether. My 1st disliked it but I then used a puppy pen and had to "train" him to tolerate it (he also messed whenever left alone). That took a few weeks and I can send you the exercises I done with him if you'd like :D
I have been lucky with my 3rd and current pup, Monty who is now 15 weeks old. I've fed him in his crate from day 1 and he settles without problems in there for naps during the day. This has enabled me to leave the house and return to no mess, which is incredible! However, I've been careful to associate the crate with good things (he gets his Kong and treats in there too).
Never underestimate the first few months of cocker ownership, they can be very intense but eventually it will all be worth it :luv:
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Hi and welcome. I think if you look back at any one of our first posts we all struggled with the puppy stage at some point or other... I know I certainly did with the sheer exhaustion and worry that I was doing something wrong! It's all totally normal. Cockers are known to be Velcro dogs... Meaning they want to be with you ALL the time. Your little one is only 9 weeks old and there's a lot of new things going on!
Stick with it, it's tough but it's so worth it. People on here really got me through and there isn't ever a question that is too silly! So ask away! Good luck
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Thank you for all your words of encouragement. I am sticking with it for the moment. It's early days for sure but sleep deprivation and cleaning up poo early in the morning makes for negative feelings. It's really helpful to know I can ask for advice and support. My husband is not so keen on having a dog so that makes it a bit harder. Still no accidents in the night- I managed to take him out at optimum times. I hope it will be better when I can actually take him for a walk - should be in about 2 weeks- seems such a long time:)
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I would love your exercises geordietyke if you are willing to send them. Not sure how that works on this site.
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Have emailed the plan, just change details for you! Good luck, Lesley x
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We are just starting our fourth week of having little Ted. The first two were just as you describe. Upset tum, clingy, ear mites,no routine. In the last few days all is settling down.
Hang on in there and cat nap when you can. Sleep deprivation makes everything seem worse. X
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Thanks for sending stuff Geordietyke. He is a lovely boy just soooo time consuming. Everyone says it will get easier- I'm hanging not that!
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Never underestimate owning a puppy, especially a cocker. It's like having another child!
Give it a go, with practice, repetition and patience, you should see some improvements.
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It may help to keep in mind that the majority of COL members have raised a cocker puppy, usually very successfully and have managed, in most cases, to retain their sanity :005:
We've always had dogs, usually labradors, but decided that a smaller dog would be more appropriate when we reached retirement. We decided to offer Milly, a seven month old rescue cocker, her forever home and were amazed at the fun and happiness she brought into our lives.
Two years later we decided to get another cocker but this time we went for a working strain puppy….Chaz. On his first evening with us he managed to open the door to his crate in the kitchen, drag his bedding into the living room and set up house in the middle of the settee :005: Much to Milly's consternation >:(
Chaz's puppyhood was challenging to say the least and he frequently reduced us to tears of frustration and laughter in equal measure.
He's now coming up to three years old and has developed into the most loving, intelligent and obedient dog that we've ever had :luv: He and Milly are now the best of friends and the two of them really enhance our retirement and help to keep us young at heart.
Your puppy may well be a complete pain in the posterior at the moment but stick with it and the rewards will be well worth the effort.
Bob.
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Thanks to everyone for the advice and encouragement. I have 2 another questions.
1. My puppy goes into his crate voluntarily leaving the door open for a sleep in the day. I close the door at night. I sleep downstairs currently and get up to let him out a couple of times. So far with no fuss. He was waking up at 5am however and would not go back to sleep so the last few nights I have put him in his crate about 3.30am and decamped upstairs coming down at 6am. He still wakes up at 5 and goes mad in the crate- crying, barking and messing- either pee or poo or both. I can't get up at 5 every day. That will really finish me off! Any thoughts?
2. As I said my puppy is ok with his crate with the door open. I want to be able to go out during the day for short periods. The 'advice' is to put him in the crate. I know that he will go bonkers but should I persevere? At the moment I feel a bit housebound.
Thanks in advance for words of experience.,
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Have you tried building up the time the crate is closed EXTREMELY slowly and with distractions? I've seen advice to do it literally for a few seconds, then a few more, then a few more...
If he goes in happily, what does he do? Lie down to sleep or start to play? Also, when does he start to cry? When you put your hand on the door? When you close it over? When you move away? If you can isolate what it is exactly that starts the protests you can think about how to distract and desensitise.
With the early waking - sometimes it's just the way with young pups, like babies! One suggestion I've seen is to set an alarm for just before he normally wakes for about a week - an alarm he can hear. Then move the alarm forwards by a few minutes every few days, in the hope that he starts waiting for the alarm.
The thing I've learned about Henry is sometimes he puts two and two together and gets five, and I have to work out exactly where his thinking diverges from mine. If I can pinpoint the trigger or associations with the behaviour I don't want, I can work on changing it. For example, our next door neighbours' dogs bark a lot. If Henry is in the garden and hears them, he joins in. At the moment I'm consistently calling him in when I hear the other dogs starting up, and giving him a yummy treat for settling down quietly. The hope is he'll start to assosciate other dogs barking with him getting something nice indoors! The key with dog training I think is to make sure to offer them a behaviour you DO want as an alternative to the one you don't.
I should add that as a first-time dog owner it's taken me a long time to realise I need to think how he is thinking and change his thinking to get what I want. I made huge mistakes in the early weeks. I wasn't on this forum in the early days and so wish I had been. You've given yourself a real advantage by tapping into the experience of all the lovely owners here.
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Hello I'm reading this thread with great interest, as although I have not got my boy yet, I think we may experience some similar issues come next week!
I'm also fairly newly retired, and my husband is 'not a dog person' either. My desire for a puppy came up against a lot of resistance and so I'm very keen for it all to go well, even if that means me getting up at 5 am!
I have a crate, and the crate is in a pen. I figured I will put him in the crate with the door open at night, so he can still come out into the pen and be contained there. Hopefully any tolieting mistakes will be made in the pen and not the crate. (Although I may just be extremely naive ...) It takes up loads of room, I must admit, I wouldn't want that arrangement in the long term, but I think it will be necessary for a few months - at least until the chewy stage is over..
I think your pup is probably panicked when he realises he's locked in and, as far as he can tell, there's no-one around. I'd be concerned that the experience of being locked in his crate would then make the crate a place he doesn't want to go? I wonder if you could come down just before he panics, and then very gradually make it a minute or two later each day, until you achieve your desired getting up time?
(Sorry for sticking my sneck in - I hope I am not talking a load of guff!)
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Monty's crate has a puppy pen attached to it and he sleeps with the crate door open but secure within the pen. He'll do his wees etc in the pen part. Is this an option for you? Also, his crate has a divider so his sleeping part is only large enough for him to turn around and not use it as a toilet. Can't help with the early waking as Monty stays silent until I get up at 6.30am, although he's waiting at the pen door for me though :lol2:
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I don't have the answers, but these are things I have read that you can do.
There are crate games you can play so that he associates the crate as a good thing. I don't have any links but you can Google them.
Some people put them in the crate then sit on the floor next to them, talk calmly then gradually move further and further away.
I would persevere (somehow) as I think you need to know he is safe when you are out.
There is a good facebook page called Dog training advice and support. There is lots of helpful advice on there including crate training.
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All excellent advice, so nothing more to add, but hang on in there......!,😌
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As bizzylizzy said lots of brilliant advice already, can't offer anything further as my two never used crates but instead had a bed in the 'puppy proofed' kitchen with a baby gate across the door to the living room. But here's a link to a video by Victoria Stilwell on building positive association with the crate:
https://positively.com/video/?video=Positive-House-Training-With-a-Crate-9WQy018q&search=crate
If you think he's waking early for food you could always try slightly increasing his last meal at night (reducing another) or make it slightly later, so maybe he wouldn't be as hungry in the early morning? The early mornings do get better with age, my two now get up with me, pop outside for a toilet and then take themselves back to bed (How lucky are they...!).
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My little 'angel' is awake at 5 am, my fault as I was setting my alarm to get up before Her ready to catch the wee/ poo moment. Would get up, let Her out, and if She didnt perform would settle down on the settee waiting for Her to get restless then put Her out......She can now go all night BUT at 5am We hear Her trot into the hall, wooden floor, and She walks up and down until I come down, She jumps onto the settee and looks so sad that I settle down onto the settee and We both go back off to sleep until OH gets up.She doesnt go out until then.Have tried going down a bit later but She just paces up and down.It is so light by then and the birds / seagulls are going mental so to Her its day time. And I must confess I like that cuddle time, but hopefully We can break the habit once the mornings are darker.I think She has me well trained.
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My little 'angel' is awake at 5 am, my fault as I was setting my alarm to get up before Her ready to catch the wee/ poo moment. Would get up, let Her out, and if She didnt perform would settle down on the settee waiting for Her to get restless then put Her out......She can now go all night BUT at 5am We hear Her trot into the hall, wooden floor, and She walks up and down until I come down, She jumps onto the settee and looks so sad that I settle down onto the settee and We both go back off to sleep until OH gets up.She doesnt go out until then.Have tried going down a bit later but She just paces up and down.It is so light by then and the birds / seagulls are going mental so to Her its day time. And I must confess I like that cuddle time, but hopefully We can break the habit once the mornings are darker.I think She has me well trained.
:005: :005: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh! That is exactly the reason I never used a crate though. I always feared I would end up being trained to get up early!
Sorry, no advice to you WPB as I don't crate train. Lots of excellent things for you to try from others though. I had the puppy from hell too and even he is (mostly :shades:) brilliant now.....nearly 5 years later. Feel free to read my earliest posts to see the state I was in. It may give you some hope! ;)
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I have had 5 cockers altogether I have 3 at the moment ;) ,so know abit about crate training. I always put mine in the crate with a frozen kong or some kibble or treats to make it a positive experience, and never ever put them in as punishment (not saying you do of course ). maybe you can start feeding him in the crate with the door open with lots of praise at the end. You haven't had the pup long and remember it has been taken from its mum to a totally alien place and understandably wants to cling to someone. please do not to get stressed as cockers are super sensitive on picking up negative vibes, you may have quite a few times ahead (teething for example= cockerdiles) but you will be rewarded with the most loyal funniest lovable dog ever .
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Hello I'm reading this thread with great interest, as although I have not got my boy yet, I think we may experience some similar issues come next week!
I'm also fairly newly retired, and my husband is 'not a dog person' either. My desire for a puppy came up against a lot of resistance and so I'm very keen for it all to go well, even if that means me getting up at 5 am!
I have a crate, and the crate is in a pen. I figured I will put him in the crate with the door open at night, so he can still come out into the pen and be contained there. Hopefully any tolieting mistakes will be made in the pen and not the crate. (Although I may just be extremely naive ...) It takes up loads of room, I must admit, I wouldn't want that arrangement in the long term, but I think it will be necessary for a few months - at least until the chewy stage is over..
I think your pup is probably panicked when he realises he's locked in and, as far as he can tell, there's no-one around. I'd be concerned that the experience of being locked in his crate would then make the crate a place he doesn't want to go? I wonder if you could come down just before he panics, and then very gradually make it a minute or two later each day, until you achieve your desired getting up time?
(Sorry for sticking my sneck in - I hope I am not talking a load of guff!)
So far you are thinking along the right lines just make sure the crate feels like a nice place to be ;)
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Crate went out the window by end of week one.Puppy proofed kitchen etc, at 7 months She has the run of downstairs . Tried restricting Her to one room but She hates it so decided better to just go with the flow.Very good re chewing...now.....I think every puppy/ owner is different, have to do what works for you.I am a lark so early morning wake up is not an issue, although would like to stay in my own bed a tad longer.
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It may help to make the crate more of a "den". Chaz's crate has always been covered with blankets to keep it nice and dark inside with another strip of blanket draped over the doorway at night.
Some of the members on here have found that the lighter mornings have caused their dogs to wake earlier but covering the crate seems to help.
The door to his crate was removed when he was a few months old so he uses his crate whenever he chooses. We've developed a night time routine of out into the garden for a run around and toilet, a gravy bone as an overnight snack, then told "night-night" and into his crate with the strip of blanket being pulled down over the doorway.
In the morning we're greeted with a head pushing the blanket up while his tail plays the Anvil Chorus on the sides of the crate. Out of the kitchen door into the garden for a check that nothing's been moved overnight, then a toilet and back into the kitchen for his breakfast.
Most of the day he's with us around the house and garden but likes to head back into his crate for a snooze after his morning walk of about an hour and a half, and after his afternoon/evening walk of a similar time. He usually disappears into his crate mid evening but keeps a sharp eye on any kitchen activities that could possibly involve food or trips into the garden :005:
Bob.
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My two have always had crates and never really minded going in them. They just had fleece in the bottom of them. Then out of the kindness of, my heart :005: I bought thick dog cushions to put in them. Now they prefer their crates to their beds in the lounge with us!
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Both mine were crate trained and I have been dog sitting my friends cocker spaniel puppy 1 day a week since she was 9 weeks so the crate has been reinstated in the kitchen. Mine were always happy to go in their crate at night and in the day. They didn't really have any choice though! When my lab was a puppy my kids were young and for her own safety she was always put in there whenever I left the room, so many times a day. She got a treat everytime and frozen kings etc. When my spaniel was a puppy I couldn't leave her out everytime I left the room because she would harass my lab and I was worried that my lab would get very cross with her. So all in all the crate was a necessity for our situation. I would persevere if you can as crates can be invaluable and it's really useful to have a dog who settles in a crate. If they go to a vets they get put in crate type cages and if your dog has to go to a kennels it is in a giant crate type thing. It's good to have a dog that is used to and happy being confined in a space if necessary, don't let the howling put you off.
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Great advice already but will add my experience.
Jinely had a canvas crate (den) inside a large pen. I didnt set the alarm to come down during the night, I could cope with washing a floor more than I could with lack of sleep.
She then progressed to just her crate (open) restricted to downstairs and she settled well as part of her nighttime routine - last wee at 10.30, biscuit then bed until I came down about 7.30 to 8 the next morning. Not a peep!
If you have small children then persevere with a safe haven for your puppy (and visiting children) or have a selection of stair gates around the house.
Good luck!
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Hello and Welcome.
Hang in there, it does get better! :D
You have had some very good advice here, I can only add that I found feeding him in his crate and giving him treats or filled kong when putting him in his crate and slowly building up the time has worked very well now for me.
I have had dogs all my life but always had Basset's and Clumbers. I thought I was well prepared and experienced for my little cocker boy Reese.....was I wrong! Lol
My partner works offshore and unfortunately went away for a month the day before I picked Reese (pocket rocket) up so I was on my own. I took 2 weeks off work to help settle him in and plan was to establish a routine. Lol I found the first few weeks very hard, he was on the go constantly. I had no sleep, was always on the go taking him out or cleaning up accidents, playing with him and training with things like crate and grooming trying to keep calm, upbeat and positive when I just wanted to sleep....It also did my diet the world of good as never managed more than a few mouthfuls of anything! Lol I was actually pleased to go back to work, that first morning dropped him off at my mums and kissed him goodbye and went off to work....and found myself missing that little bundle of trouble, fun and love and wishing I could win the lottery so I could spend all my time with him. :005:
That time soon passes, take time to appreciate the cute fun times too. Reese is now 18 weeks old and a real pleasure to be with and a happy confident little boy which makes the effort and exhausting early stages worthwhile. There have been other challenges but nothing like the first few weeks.
Hope thing work out for you and pup....picture are always welcome for us to swoon over :luv:
Take care Tracy & Reese