CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Briggo09 on June 10, 2016, 03:00:36 PM
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Hi my boy Charlie is nearly 5.5months old. At home he is very obedient and mostly very calm. Have always practiced not letting him pull on walks and have had some very good results with this- using methods of turning and going back the way I've come from, holding a treat and telling him 'with me' and treating at regular intervals. The only problems I have are when he sees other dogs/people/birds etc. Or when he knows the route we are taking means we are off to the playing field. I know he is young and very excitable and he is so friendly and wants to be everyone's friend, but is there any techniques to make him less excitable when these things occur, I let him say hello to other dogs and people but it then takes me a while to settle him back down into a nice walk.
Also I have always practiced recall from very young and I have similar problems to the above. I am now starting to use a long line to try and reinforce this because when there is distractions I get ignored, and although he is only off lead over the field- if he approaches the wrong dog or grabs something he shouldn't I have no control. I'm considering whistle training with his long line, is this the correct approach? I believe over the months I have had him we have accidentally conditioned him to think he can sometimes ignore his voice command to come back, and so think a fresh approach could tackle this.
Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks
Aaron
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I'd definitely recommend the whistle training. There is a sticky at the top of this part of the forum from Top Barks that gives great advice on this.
At around the same age, Henry's recall got quite poor. He had, like you say, learned he didn't always need to respond to 'come'. I started whistle training and had him on the long line for the last month of three months total training. The long line was essential for making sure we didn't 'break' the new recall. I tested it out against all his favourite distractions.
Henry is now 9.5 months old and in the last few weeks is back off the lead and his recall is very good. Not perfect yet. If he sees a dog he wants to play with, I can get him back if he has just set off, but if he's already playing, the whistle is no good. We are still working on that. I usually incorporate 10-15 minutes long line training into our long morning walk, just to keep fine tuning it.
The thing I would say about the whistle training is that it has improved Henry's behaviour off the lead at all times, not just when I blow the whistle. He will be foraging about in the woods and if I just call his name he comes barrelling out to find me (and get a biscuit). If he runs ahead, he will stop and wait where paths diverge to let me catch up and tell him which way we are going. The other day I met a friend in an open field. We were chatting, Henry was skipping around. He saw some dogs in the distance, moved towards them, then stopped and looked at me, waiting to be told if he could go or not. I can honestly say I've never seen him do that before! I think all the training that goes with the whistle also builds that relationship where it is the two of us in collaboration going for our walk. I only NEED to blow the whistle a few times, the rest of the time he is either with me or comes back just on the call of his name.
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Thanks for your reply! I've given the top barks thread a look and seems pretty good. Are there any books to help with training recall? You have now made my mind up on giving this a go. I imagine it won't be a bad idea of having him on a long line at this age with the adolescence stage pretty much upon us. I'm sure I'm gong to have plenty of questions on how to make sure that I get it all right once I get the whistle and anything else I need together.
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I have Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson which is always highly recommended. Very similar to the Top Barks method, but with more detail about what NOT to do, which is invaluable! I came across her method on a labrador website. It covers everything you need to get started, and I followed the method here: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/train-a-puppy-or-dog-to-come/ (http://www.thelabradorsite.com/train-a-puppy-or-dog-to-come/). I have the book as well as it gives more detail about the later stages. It can be a bit off-putting if you look at the later stages as it's a lot of work to proof the new recall and seems daunting when you've not started and have no recall at all! I'd say get started and enjoy the early stages, it's lot of fun! Then when it starts to be a bit of a slog at the end getting that recall locked down, come back here for some encouraging pom-pom waving. Just a few weeks ago I was here complaining that I thought Henry would never get off the long lead. I was wrong!
I have a couple of Acme whistles. They seem expensive for a bit of fluorescent plastic but they are great. Consistent tone and very easy to leave in your mouth, which is essential. More than once I've missed the opportunity to recall Henry in the time it took to get the whistle from my hand to my mouth.
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That article is very good and seems like a good guide to doing the training, yeh I am planning to buy one of those whistles and the book of Amazon tonight. From reading that I have a quick question, did you continue using your original recall word in training alongside the whistle or did you simply ditch the word and go all in with the whistle? I'd imagine it's good to have both? Charlie's recall word 'come' isn't bad- like I said before, however I think it's now tainted due to a few months of slight mis use.
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Good question! I still used 'come' in the early stages of training when you can't use the whistle at anytime when you're not 100% sure he's on his way back. You still need to call them, and the training seemed to help 'come' work better as well. Now I just shout his name and he comes so I've dropped the use of 'come' as a command. The difference with the whistle is when it becomes a conditioned response he will literally turn 180 degrees at full gallop without hesitation to come back to me. Even when his recall was good in the early months, the verbal command never had that power.
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Thanks a lot. I will definitely start this! I really want to have a solid recall- this will open up a whole world of fun and freedom for Charlie as he gets older.
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Sorry another quick question, for high value treats- what did you use? I have used cheese a fair bit but thinking about getting some chicken or something?
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It depends on your dog's taste really. Reese loves fish so best results are from anything fishy with him, lots of recipes on web to make healthy homemade training treats. If time limited he will also have chopped cheese, chicken , dried liver or occasionally chopped cocktail sausage but they are high in fat and salt and I also find I will eat most of them while chopping his up! :D
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Yeh I keep meaning to give him some fish to try... What sort do you go for usually? I know a friend who feeds his staffy sardines. Think I'm going to buy a dehydrator also as the same friend uses one with chicken breast to make homemade treats.
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Mine love liver cake, it's not the nicest to make (rather messy!) so I make up a batch and then chop into cubes and freeze. Then just take a handful out when needed. Here's a link to a recipe:
http://cleverdogcompany.com/liver-cake-recipe
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We were also told to take a 'jackpot' with us and give for a really excellent recall. Don't take one out every day but enough to keep them on their toes that something really, really tasty might be presented.
I have taken a piece of raw chicken wing, cooked steak and salmon on our walks!
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Our jackpot is a pouch of the cat's food! Horribly messy, I have to remember to bring hand wipes. Must remember to do a jackpot again soon, for reinforcement. Henry loves cheese and roast chicken. If he sees the whistle and I offer him anything else, he starts snuffling my pockets looking for the good stuff.
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I have whistle trained Rosie and it has proved succesful, She will usually stop in Her tracks even if She is off on a very important scent mission.And It proved invaluable when I lost Her in the wooods.My fault, Rosie was right behind, nose on ground, two paths, I went down one presuming Rosie was with Me, turned around ,no sight of Her.Panic doesn't even begin to explain how I felt.She really does have a good nose,so I wondered if She would back track where we had been, but I started whistling.I can usually hear Her tag tinkling on Her collar but nothing except bird song, so I just stood exactly where We were last together and whistled and whistled and way away I could hear tinkling and frantic panting and along the path came this jet propelled dog.She was only gone about 5 minutes but She was obviously very upset, panting and Her tongue was on the floor( I was no better) so big cuddles all round, lots of treats for coming back but now I watch Her like a hawk and make sure if I go down a path that She knows exactly where I am. So its loads of treats, lots of praise every time She answers the whistle .
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Sorry I'm replying a bit late I've had a busy couple of weeks. Have started the whistle training with Charlie today- bought myself a achme whistle, the book total recall and a magnetic treat bag, now in the process of making this whistle the best thing ever- Charlie approves after his second helping of roast chicken today :lol2: , have made up some liver treats and have some tinned sardines. Fingers crossed all goes to plan.
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Yay! It might take some time but it is SO worth seeing it through. Our walks are so much fun these days, with Henry running in and out of the woods and chasing birds across the meadow and ALWAYS coming back, something I never thought would happen. Do check in for pompom waving when you need it.
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Currently on my second day of associating the whistle with great things. Charlie already goes nuts when sitting in front of me and I blow it before giving him his chicken... I'm so desperate to get it all right, his walks are becoming a bit stressful because all he wants to do is run free and in quite a few situations I just can't trust him. Loooong few months ahead.
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It will get to the point where your cocker will watch you out of the corner of his eye. As soon as he sees the whistle go anywhere near your lips he will charge back to you. They are not daft, these little hairballs.
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Currently on my second day of associating the whistle with great things. Charlie already goes nuts when sitting in front of me and I blow it before giving him his chicken... I'm so desperate to get it all right, his walks are becoming a bit stressful because all he wants to do is run free and in quite a few situations I just can't trust him. Loooong few months ahead.
All the advice has been great so far, so have nothing to add there just one bit of advice - try not to to fall into the same trap that I did in the effort to "do it all right". It took me a while to learn that its a long process and the more relaxed you are,the eaiser it becomes. Playing and running around (getting into mischief) is as important as learning all the obedience training. Its taken me the best part of 10 months to finally realize that the calmer I am, and the more relaxed my body language is, the better Humphrey responds. Its not always easy and my mood isn't always the same, but if I'm stressed, I don't even attempt any training now and leave it for another day. And don't worry about what people think what your dog should be able to do and when - they all learn at different paces and there are things that some dogs just never get the hang of, the best solution is learning to manage them.... ;)
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Currently on my second day of associating the whistle with great things. Charlie already goes nuts when sitting in front of me and I blow it before giving him his chicken... I'm so desperate to get it all right, his walks are becoming a bit stressful because all he wants to do is run free and in quite a few situations I just can't trust him. Loooong few months ahead.
That's exactly where we were at, I was really stressed letting Henry off the lead because I didn't trust him not to get into trouble. Once I'd started the training I really relaxed because I knew I was doing something about it!
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It will get to the point where your cocker will watch you out of the corner of his eye. As soon as he sees the whistle go anywhere near your lips he will charge back to you. They are not daft, these little hairballs.
Absolutely true! I hardly get the chance to blow it sometimes.
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Just thought I'd update you guys on my situation since my last post on here.... I have a really solid basic recall with Charlie- around the house and now ventured outside into the garden- I've really been taking my time with the first few chapters of total recall to make the whistle seem like the best thing in the world and it really seems to be working so far, he can't get to me quick enough- regardless of the level of treat (or no treat) I've given him on his last few recalls. Seems the gambling affect really does work well. He still ignores my old recall which he forgot as soon as he hit about 5 months but this new shiny one I'm nurturing carefully :005: . I know the hard work of proofing with humans and especially dogs is going to be an even longer slog, but the brilliant response I've received from him so far really gives me the confidence that done correctly I can make it work. Thanks for all the early advice to get me to do it guys!
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Fantastic!! So pleased its all going well, its so rewarding when you see results and is the best motivation for keeping at it.
Be prepared for a bit of a backslide as he gets into puberty, its quite normal and they all go through phases where you wonder why you bother ;) , but it IS only a phase and if the ground work's solid, they soon get back on track again !!
Well done! Keep us posted!!