CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: daw on June 25, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
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Thought this might be useful: I'm a fan of clicker training and teach it to owners taking on rescue dogs. But sometimes they say 'doesn't work!'. What happens is they leave too long an interval between good behaviour and click stimulus (as Pavlov said, "Close but no cigar!") What I've found with current boy is the tongue-click sound you make when asking a horse to move on, sideways or backwards, works just as well- and it's instant and you've always got it with you. You can do it the moment he sits, comes or whatever. I found this out after OH had mislaid the third clicker we'd owned yet again.
The only situation this isn't good for is if you run an equestrian business and your dog hears the yard lads and lasses clicking all day long... :-\ Then it would be a case of 'Me? Do they mean me?'
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I've recently started clicker training and you do need to be speedy. Before that, I used to say 'yes' in a quite distinctive way: quick, sharp, low, and with an extended ssss. And then treat. I still do it, out of habit and he immediately looks for his reward.
With four of us in the house, we agree all cues and commands so they are consistent. Discovered that not everyone can do that 'trot on' click! We have two people that can whistle and click, one who can whistle but not click and one who can do neither!
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Doesn't matter what sound you use to "clicker" train as long as it is consistently the same. Not so good when there are several people training the dog.
It is the timing that is critical with clicker training so, if people are saying it doesn't work, their timing is probably wrong :-\
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Doesn't matter what sound you use to "clicker" train as long as it is consistently the same. Not so good when there are several people training the dog.
It is the timing that is critical with clicker training so, if people are saying it doesn't work, their timing is probably wrong :-\
Exactly the reason we now have a clicker and an acme whistle, so we all sound the same. Henry recalls to any of us giving our particular sequence on the whistle.
I really have to focus when I'm clicker training, to make sure I get the timing right. After a while it's instinctive, but easy to lose focus and get it wrong.
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Yes, getting the timing right can be tricky, but it does get easier with practice.
If you are constantly getting the timing wrong though, even a second or two out, then all you will get is a very confused dog :dunno:
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I'm glad this has come up. I've been curious about something for a long time. I've never used clicker training and I have never really understood why a well-timed "yes" or "good boy" won't have exactly the same effect as a click as long as you time it right. :dunno: Maybe it's because there is just me and my dog. I guess if there are more people involved in the training then a universal sound from everyone involved would make a difference.
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I'm glad this has come up. I've been curious about something for a long time. I've never used clicker training and I have never really understood why a well-timed "yes" or "good boy" won't have exactly the same effect as a click as long as you time it right. :dunno: Maybe it's because there is just me and my dog. I guess if there are more people involved in the training then a universal sound from everyone involved would make a difference.
It is very difficult to time a verbal response as accurately as a clicker somehow and once the dog understands that when it hears the click a treat will follow soon after, it is very effective. The click should mark the exact moment the correct behaviour happens eg if you are teaching a sit, then the click should be as the dog's bottom hits the floor, not when the dog is sitting ;)
Hope that makes sense ;)
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I've recently started clicker training and you do need to be speedy. Before that, I used to say 'yes' in a quite distinctive way: quick, sharp, low, and with an extended ssss. And then treat. I still do it, out of habit and he immediately looks for his reward.
With four of us in the house, we agree all cues and commands so they are consistent. Discovered that not everyone can do that 'trot on' click! We have two people that can whistle and click, one who can whistle but not click and one who can do neither!
I had no idea everyone couldn't do the click! Will be testing people now to find out who's a clicker- and who isn't. :P
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Have to say that I'm better at saying "yes" (in a particular tone that I don't use at any other time) than I am at using a clicker. I never seem to have enough hands or brain cells to use a clicker :lol2: and that means I sometimes miss the moment.
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I think the things about the clicker as opposed to any other word or noise are: the clicker sound is unique and not heard anywhere else...this is necessary because the whole process depends on a very narrow stimulus-response for true classical conditioning to work. Second the clicker sound whether by device or mouth is a particular frequency that a dog's hearing is sensitive to. Therefore instant pick-up.
Try the trot-on noise (as someone called it) because it's instant and does catch a dog's attention like nothing else. ;)
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I'm glad this has come up. I've been curious about something for a long time. I've never used clicker training and I have never really understood why a well-timed "yes" or "good boy" won't have exactly the same effect as a click as long as you time it right. :dunno: Maybe it's because there is just me and my dog. I guess if there are more people involved in the training then a universal sound from everyone involved would make a difference.
It is very difficult to time a verbal response as accurately as a clicker somehow and once the dog understands that when it hears the click a treat will follow soon after, it is very effective. The click should mark the exact moment the correct behaviour happens eg if you are teaching a sit, then the click should be as the dog's bottom hits the floor, not when the dog is sitting ;)
Hope that makes sense ;)
Yes, but I actually can't see that the signal will get from your brain to your hand to click something any quicker than it gets to your mouth to say something!! Maybe my job just means that timing is something I'm good at. :005:
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I think the things about the clicker as opposed to any other word or noise are: the clicker sound is unique and not heard anywhere else...this is necessary because the whole process depends on a very narrow stimulus-response for true classical conditioning to work. Second the clicker sound whether by device or mouth is a particular frequency that a dog's hearing is sensitive to. Therefore instant pick-up.
Try the trot-on noise (as someone called it) because it's instant and does catch a dog's attention like nothing else. ;)
I have horses, so the trot on/ tongue click noise is too familiar to my dogs, whereas my very particular "yessss" that I use when training is a sound they hear at no other time. If I didn't have horses I'd probably use the tongue click in preference to a clicker.
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Me too! Though only a couple of ancient Shetlands now- just wondering if I can co-ordinate the move signal for horse with the sit signal for the corgi...? Like a twofer!
Na...I suspect by the end of the week we'd all have totally lost it and be back to chaos. OR I'd have taught the Shetlands to sit and stay. ;)