CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Blueberry on July 30, 2016, 05:24:33 PM
-
Blue has ruined countless pairs of my trousers by jumping up at the backs of my legs when walking and biting my legs and clothes. Usually he just comes away with a mouth full of trouser, but occasionally he has also nipped my flesh.
I planned to take him out for a walk just now, he didn't want to go, so laid down in the road (another fairly common occurrence). When I put him on his feet and attempted to walk on, he starts the jumping and biting, and has ripped my trousers, forcing me to abandon the idea of a walk.
Folding arms and walking away has no effect whatsoever - he follows and continues to bite, and obviously isn't practical when out and about. At home I can do a 'time out', although it doesn't seem to be having much effect. It's beyond a joke, and I'm getting fed up of it. Suggestions gratefully received.
-
Wellington boots (nothing fancy - just common solid rubber wellies that come a decent way up the leg - say to the knee) they may not stop the habit - altho might if he gets no reaction to his biting the back of legs - but it will save lots of pairs of trousers until he has grown out of it.
-
He jumps and bites. Today's trousers have been ripped at the top of my thigh. Wellies would not help, unfortunately.
-
He jumps and bites. Today's trousers have been ripped at the top of my thigh. Wellies would not help, unfortunately.
Blimey!! In that case, concrete wellies for him - so he can't jump ;)
-
Maybe it's time to get a positive behaviourist to help. Do you go to puppy classes where you can ask for help?
-
We do go to puppy class with a positive behaviourist, but it is very basic training, and the trainer does not allow time for owners to ask for help on specific issues. The doors open bang on time, and there is a second class waiting to come in when we leave. I go mainly to get the opportunity for Blue to socialise with the other puppies.
Home visits are available at extra cost, and it may well come to that. It's a business, at the end of the day, and I suppose he has had years of fending off the same old questions from hundreds of owners.
Must say I am feeling somewhat disheartened. It seems to be one problem after another, and just now puppy ownership is not proving to be the joyful affair I anticipated. (Today's ripped trousers were new, only the second time I've worn them!)
-
Humphrey used to do this a lot, in fact he still has a tendency to jump when excited but it is getting better. Try and be prepared ;) and if you can, dodge out of the way, fending him off with your body. Don't scold, infact try not to say anything(easier said than done!) try not to give him any eye contact at all and fold your arms so your body language tells him you're ignoring him. He's basically looking for attention and you need to make him realize that's not the way to get it!
Have you done any lead training to get him to walk with you? like encouraging him by holding a treat at your side just infront of his nose - walk a few steps, treat and praise and then a few more steps.
There are quite a few videos online that might help and maybe someone else on here will have some other advice aswell. Don't worry, we've all been there at some time or other, I got quite depressed, I so wanted to be a perfect "mum" and have the perfect dog but then realized my stress was working against me. Try and keep a sense of humour, put on your oldest trousers to go out in, the more relaxed you are the better Blue will respond. It WILL get better, I promise! :luv: Might also be an idea to look around for another trainer that will treat each dog individually!
-
We do go to puppy class with a positive behaviourist, but it is very basic training, and the trainer does not allow time for owners to ask for help on specific issues. The doors open bang on time, and there is a second class waiting to come in when we leave. I go mainly to get the opportunity for Blue to socialise with the other puppies.
Home visits are available at extra cost, and it may well come to that. It's a business, at the end of the day, and I suppose he has had years of fending off the same old questions from hundreds of owners.
Must say I am feeling somewhat disheartened. It seems to be one problem after another, and just now puppy ownership is not proving to be the joyful affair I anticipated. (Today's ripped trousers were new, only the second time I've worn them!)
Genuinely sorry you are feeling so let down atm, puppies are not as easy as their little fur jackets and cuteness make you believe are they? and it is true to say that some have more problems than others. I know it is not funny really and I apologise for the concrete welly comment if it upset you at all.
Could you find a new training school? as I do think you should be able to approach the trainer and ask questions. Our trainer is also a professional but she always has time after class has finished to answer any questions, particularly the puppy classes.
-
we are used to cockerdiles but you seemed to have found a cockeroo . sending :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
-
No, wasn't upset by the concrete welly comment MM, don't fret!
Bizzylizzy, that's exactly it, I so want it all to go swimmingly, maybe I'm projecting my anxiety or trying to control too much. I don't know.
The dog trainer has an enormous reputation and is the only one I know of locally. (Ex military police dog handler and guide dogs for the blind trainer). He's known as the dog whisperer! I don't think I could do better. There's just no time for questions at the end of class, we are in from 6-7 and the next class comes in from 7-8, so we are out of the door promptly to allow the next class in.
I will have to ask how much the home visits cost, maybe a couple of sessions needed to help me get back on track. (Got to be cheaper than new trousers every week!)
At least he's sleeping a bit better - getting up at 4 & 6 now.
-
hmmm, its probably not that uncommon, Martha seems to be doing it to me when she is excited. Probably the best thing you can do in the short term is wear an old pair of jeans or suchlike then at least you don't get stressed over the clothes damage.
I have found that the best way to stop Martha jumping and nipping the trousers is to firmly tell her to sit, its the command she knows best and she always responds to. It just seems to break the cycle of jumping, shouting and whatever - she just sits and gets a treat, then off we go calmly. Best of luck, they do grow out of these behaviours.
-
Have you seen this thread
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=117255.0;topicseen
Maybe worth chatting to Archie's Mum
-
I know you have struggled with Blue from the first...they do grow out of these things and much else- to be honest surely it's easier to wear old things around your puppy than get so bothered by a pair of trousers? But why don't you try consulting a good behaviourist for some one to one help? This is a very young vulnerable little animal that is following its instincts during a period of rapid growth and change. Get some proper help so you and Blue can enjoy each other rather than have everything being a battle of wills.
-
I follow a Facebook group run by positive behaviourist trainers and they often say ex-police dog handlers are not always well suited to training pet dogs. We went to a trainer who trains Cockers to be explosive dogs. Looking back, I didn't learn anything useful in his puppy classes, and some things I now flat out disagree with. And yet he's the local guru. Something to think about if you're considering some one-on-one help.
I remember being really very depressed about life with a puppy when Henry was a similar age and I do wish I'd been a member of this forum then. I also remember the biting and nipping really peaking before it started to diminish. I have an entire wardrobe of puppy jeans, the only thing I could wear for months without worrying about rips and tears.
I agree with Bizzylizzy that incorporating some training into the walk might help. Get his attention on something else before he starts his shenanigans. You can try throwing a treat a little bit behind, then click and treat again the moment he reaches your side again. Repeat and repeat. It's a great game that also helps teach nice walking and that good things happen when he's focusing on you calmly.
Good luck. It DOES get better. Some of them just take a bit longer than others.
-
If you are anxious then it does 'go down the lead'. It is important that you stay calm and in charge (in a positive way.)
It's usually recommended that if you have an undesirable behaviour then teach the dog what you want it to do instead, so the suggestions mentioned - find treats, sit, watch etc are good things to teach him instead. So, practice at home, then short walks asking for the new behaviour. Take your time and don't budge until you get it, reward then move on. Maddie is very slow to obey commands and I ofter have to wait until she cooperates.
I never wear good clothes anymore except when I go out!
In your previous posts i think you mentioned that your husband didn't really want a dog. Maybe you're trying too hard, understandably, to get it right. Be kind to yourself. X
-
Oh you do have my sympathy. Archie was an absolute S%@ when it came to ripping clothes. He didn't have as much sproing in his step as Blue so didn't jump that high. But as he got bigger, above the knee rips weren't uncommon. I lived in ancient jogging bottoms and ugg boots. My biggest fear was him destroying clothes belonging to visitors. I used to pre-warn anyone to wear old clothes when visiting but we still had a couple of mishaps. (The pupil whose mum ended up yelling "it's Karen Millen, KAREN MILLEN" as he hung of her cashmere cardi was a high point! >:D)
I would love to say that there is a magic fix but I think it's just time and practice. I'm sure you are doing all the right things but some pups are much more of a challenge than others. A one to one session with your trainer would be a good idea, if only to boost your confidence and confirm that you are pointing in the right direction. Keep persevering with the time outs. They are what eventually (and I do mean eventually) did the trick with Archie. We spent a LOT of time practising the "off" command for getting him to let go of something. One little trick was to always have treats in my pocket. I would drop a treat and tap the floor next to it with my foot. I was then able to use this if he was hanging off one leg I simply tapped the floor with the other foot. He would then let go to look for his treat. The minute he let go I praised him and treated him. I ALWAYS had treats about my person when he was small! Make sure that you get some time to yourself too. Even if it's just half an hour. My Mum used to look after Archie for a short time every so often just so I could sit and have a coffee and kick my shoes off without being molested by him.
Good luck. It WILL get better. I promise. :bigarmhug:
-
As a follow on from Archie bean, you can either carry treats or put little pots of treats around the house. Whenever Blue is doing a desirable behaviour calmly, then reward. Some people believes this works really well towards getting good behaviour.
-
I bought a beautiful long cashmere cardigan just before we got Henry, a two months old. First time I wore it he was 9 months!
-
hmmm, its probably not that uncommon, Martha seems to be doing it to me when she is excited. Probably the best thing you can do in the short term is wear an old pair of jeans or suchlike then at least you don't get stressed over the clothes damage.
I have found that the best way to stop Martha jumping and nipping the trousers is to firmly tell her to sit, its the command she knows best and she always responds to. It just seems to break the cycle of jumping, shouting and whatever - she just sits and gets a treat, then off we go calmly. Best of luck, they do grow out of these behaviours.
I agree that Blue is probably over excited and needs to understand to be calm.
I would suggest that you have a look at some of the Kikopup training videos,they have lots of positive suggestions for this sort of situation.
This is the link to one about jumping up https://youtu.be/lC_OKgQFgzw
But I would look at this one first which is about how to stop unwanted behaviours, and training your puppy to be calm instead https://youtu.be/TBvPaqMZyo8
Good news is it's free to subscribe to Kikopup and there are lots of other topics too (other dog training videos are available :shades: :005:)
-
Oh you have my sympathy. I did have some of this with Reese probably about the same age. It was really when he was over tired and needed some time out for a nap or over excited and I needed to calm him. I did the arms folded and ignoring him stage, at first I thought it wasn't working because if I did that he would then just leap higher at me but he did soon learn that he wouldn't get a response and stopped doing it.
I am quite lucky as my trainer goes round the class at the beginning of each session and asks if we have any issues giving each of us advice on how to deal with it. It's also good to know that there seems to be pretty standerd issues with most puppies of all breeds, your not alone and it will get easier if you have the right support. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
-
Thanks all, lots to think about, and many thanks for the hugs and reassurance that it's not unusual or permanent.
From our pup trainer's website: 'is a qualified Police Dog/Search Dog Handler and qualified Guide Dogs For The Blind Trainer/ Instructor. Has worked for the RSPCA as Animal Home Manager and Local Authority encouraging responsible dog ownership. Was one of the founding members of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers and has been called upon as an Expert Witness in court cases where dogs are the centre of controversy'. I'm sure he's perfectly ok, only uses positive methods etc. I will just have to ask him about some 1:1 sessions.
Re the trousers, they were only very casual ones, inexpensive - I actually bought them 'for dog walking' - ha!
-
Honestly he will grow out of it , cockers are not easy pups , if he is on a lead try and keep him at arms lenth and a firm sit with a treat when he does. I am sure that if you stop and ask your trainer he will be willing to help
-
Pearl was like this as a pup - at 9 months old I sat on the living room floor sobbing while a white and black set of flying teeth jumped over me.....
I had no problems like this with Coral. Yes she was a bit of a cockerdile at times but learnt bite inhibition very quickly and didn't rip any clothes.....
The main difference between the two was the way in which I handled them. I expected Pearl to be my companion and follow me round, especially at weekends. She was a high energy pup and needed a lot of attention/"jobs" to keep her occupied - she also wouldn't give in to sleep and where I naively thought she would put her self to sleep for a nap in the day - she didn't!
The moment I realised (and I think it was from a comment on here ;)) that she was over tired my life became very much easier!
If you don't already, I would urge you to set a regular schedule of sleep for Blue - morning, afternoon and evening. Pups need around 18-20 hours sleep a day. I'm still amazed how much sleep they need!
Coral happily puts herself to sleep by getting into a basket or her crate throughout the day, she also asks to go to bed at 9pm and sleeps through to around 7am.
I would also suggest finding a - positive training only - not an old fashioned trainer ;) gun dog trainer in your area. Spaniels have very different needs to most dogs that attend puppy classes etc and while your trainer works with cockers they will have a high prey drive and be a little obsessed by balls/ food etc which makes them easy to train but not suitable to be pets......Blue as an extension of your family will probably respond better to being allowed to hunt and quarter in a controlled manner which a gun dog trainer will help with. It doesn't mean you have to "do" anything to do with country sports.....
-
I do agree that not all trainers, as good as they might be, always appreciate that training a cocker isn't like training a German Shepherd. They're not a common breed where I live and neither of my trainers had had any experience with them before and both of them, after a few weeks of working with us, finally admitted that the problem of pulling on the lead, for instance, couldn't be solved as easily using their stalwart methods. My current trainer has watched us closely and now knows what Humphrey's about and doesn't make me feel like a failure when things don't work - instead he tries to either find another way of adressing the problem or has said that I need to accept that there are some things that are just not in his nature to do. (Shepherds guard and protect, retrievers tend to be more up front etc etc.). All breeds have their strengths and weanknesses and he's taught me to concentrate on the positives and relax and accept the socalled negatives, celebrate the successes and ignore the failures and not to be cross or frustrated because the dog isn't deliberately trying to antagonize. Its so much more encouraging when you feel as if you have a reliable partner who sees you as an individual.
-
One of the best things I did with Henry was have a regular routine of nap times. He had two long naps of 1.5 - 2 hours each and a shorter early evening nap which meant he could cope a lot better with the bustle of every one coming home and me cooking, sorting school bags, finding PE kits etc. These naps were at roughly the same times every day and I would put him into his crate no matter whether he seemed tired or not. He'd go from 100mph to flat out asleep in seconds. I learned he would NEVER put himself to bed. It's only in the last month or so this routine has loosened up as he approaches adulthood
Knowing there were set points in the day when I'd be free from puppy attentions saved my sanity. I don't think I've ever cried so much as when Henry was little. There is generally a conspiracy of silence in the world about how hard puppies can be to live with, which makes us feel even more of failures when we struggle. Thank goodness for COL!
-
May be worth doing a 1-2-1 with a good trainer to see if you can sort something out. Sadly it will take time and yes pups can be a pain in the backside re this sort of thing but something a lot of us had to go through - its takes a lot of patience and finding something to distract/redirect him with
I have often been vocal about how hard it can be re living with puppies so no conspiracy here and too be honest this forum has often been criticized for being too honest about puppy behaviour by others. Over the years I have fostered many puppies and when talking to prospective owners I prefer to be honest about the pup and what may happen in future at various stages.
-
Interestingly, of the 8 pups in our puppy class, 5 are Cockers, and all are very similar in age, with just a week or two separating them. As far as I can tell, I am the only one having any problems! The other 4 are all Goldens; 3 dogs and 1 bitch, and all 4 are impeccably behaved at class, have brilliant recall, sit, stay, lie down etc. like little robots >:(
Our household is very quiet, just myself & husband, we are not youngsters, I'm retired and my husband works from home. We don't have children visiting and don't go out lots, there's always been one of us at home with Blue so far. We do put him in his pen when we need to get on with things, and he will put himself to bed for a nap when he's tired.
This morning, he's a different dog altogether, he's been as good as gold today, and no biting! We had a nice long walk up on the moor earlier, and he's currently sleeping in his box at my feet. I just don't know what got into him yesterday, but he took a wild hair and there was no controlling him.
-
..... and maybe those 4 perfect ones at class are being little pains in the bottom at home this morning, while Blue's being good!! You'll never know, ;) but concenrate on the good days and the bad ones will pass!!!......
You'll get there -.....!
.
-
You have my sympathy , Ernie was a nightmare for jumping up & grapping onto my clothes - he could " Spring " to eye level from a sit ! I had lots of ripped clothes & found anything loose fitting seemed to add to his excitement so I lived in leggings & fitted jeans , wide leg trousers & cardigans were a definite no go ! As the others have said lots of rest helps as being over tired seems turn cocker puppies into cockerdiles .
I remember reading a suggestion on here about popping a large cuddly toy into a puppies mouth to let them " rough play " with the teddy instead of on your arms legs etc & I found that tip very useful .
In the meantime chocolate & wine helps ;).
Ps Ernie was quite a handful as a puppy & has grown into a very sweet natured & well behaved dog ... Hang on in there , you'll get there :D
-
Dylan also used to run behind me biting my trousers, I had forgotten that, and grabbing my sleeves. Ripped my best jeans. He has grown out of it though, 13 months old now, and I'm sure. Your one will too, just hang in there
Lesley and Dylan
-
Henry was a nightmare as a puppy, I had many a coat, jumper, full poo bag ( yes full) , ripped! He always got over excited and started jumping and biting. When he got like this I would give him something to do to calm him down a bit. Mostly puppy sits, down, stays that sort of thing.....something to break the jumping.....
We also found cheap food and treats sent him loopy too, so we swapped to food with no additives, colours etc. That helped too. And regular crate naps, because he never rested himself.....and days off when I roped in family and friends to help...Like many I didn't like puppyhood at all!
Good luck, yours will slowly improve........ :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
-
If you're in the Yorkshire area (I'm guessing you are based on your trainer), you could try Mark (Top Barks), COL member & Cocker owner with lots of experience with Cockers : http://www.topbarksfordogs.co.uk/index.html
-
Dawn's comments on additives reminded me of my old cocker Sophie ("the Sodpot") named for her occasionally challenging behaviour in puppy-hood. We learned that any sort of artificial colours or additives sent her wild and it would take a long walk to clear it out of her system. Definitely worth watching out for.
-
Thanks all. Well, for the past two days he has been a different dog altogether!
The only thing I have changed is that I am using a double ended leash with his harness, and he is so much better walking with it than any other leash I've tried. No refusing to walk since I started using it - hurrah!
Apart from that, he has been more obedient generally, and even people in my village have commented on how much better he's doing.
He's even sleeping better!
I have absolutely no idea why things have changed, or why things were so bad at the weekend, for that matter. It's a mystery!
He does not have any treats to speak of. He gets his Nutriment, and I might give him a pizzle or a chewdles biscuit, or a bone if I want to distract him for a bit, and cocktail sausages cut into pieces for training treats - other than those, he has no 'human' food whatsoever, and I intend it to remain that way.
-
That's good news. :D
I must admit I still have times when Reese who is very good most of the time is still a real cockerdile. I can see most of his teeth are through now, but have been putting his mad moments down to the joy of teething.... Bless him! Not sure myself how long this phase goes on for but sure we will need support from the good people on COL for more phases yet....teenage times coming up! >:D
-
I remember well that Henry's behaviour would be markedly worse for a couple of days just before a developmental leap. Sounds this has happened with Blue.
-
Mmm, teething. Last night at puppy class, Dexter's mum told me Dexter has lost several teeth this week. They are very close in age, so Blue can't be far behind! (He's 17 weeks now)
-
A kong filled with joghurt and then popped into the freezer can be useful to ease the soreness when they're teething! :shades:
-
Zak is biting too. Only when we are fussing him and he gets too excited. I tell him "a ah" and stop fussing him,sometimes he listens other times he goes for my clothes instead. He has took a liking to the zips lol. Some days are worse than others and i just make the most of the good days and try not to dwell on the bad ones. I get the puppy blues other wise. I hope he continues to get better Blue, you are doing a great job with him (hugs)
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
-
Thanks! He's doing really well actually. I think the biting is just over excitement and because he is teething. I just play 'statues' if he starts now, and he stops to see why I'm not moving. If I move and he starts again, I just stop again. It works a treat.