CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Em - Oscar's mum on October 18, 2005, 10:58:15 AM

Title: Breeding
Post by: Em - Oscar's mum on October 18, 2005, 10:58:15 AM

Wasn't sure where to post this so thought I would put it in the General section.

Yesterday while my hubby was out walking Oscar he was approached by a lady that had a female working cocker.  He had seen her a few times before and said hello etc etc.  But yesterday she asked Jon whether Oscar was a pedigree and whether we would consider using him as a stud dog as she would like her dog to have puppies.
My question to everyone is how old does a dog have to be before he can be used as a stud dog?  It is something that we have thought about as Oscar has such a lovely temperament (excuse the spelling!) but how would we go about this?

Title: Breeding
Post by: tracey on October 18, 2005, 11:22:55 AM

There is a very good article in cocker questions titled " Should I let my dog be used at stud " This should answer some of your questions.

Generally speaking people who are looking for a stud dog will want a dog that has proven himself in some field whether it be working or showing. A dog that holds a current clear eye certificate, is optigen tested preferably Clear/Normal and possibly hipscored. Also a dog that produces typical puppies with sound temperements :)


Please think carefully about allowing your dog to be used at stud as some dogs temperements can change once they have mated a bitch.

Tracey :)

Title: Breeding
Post by: PennyB on October 18, 2005, 11:49:15 AM

This will probably get moved to Genetics and breeding section but if you look in there there's loads of info.

Personally I'd say enjoy him as a pet, and unless someone goes into this properly and I mean properly (health checks etc., proven show record etc.) then this shouldn't be entered into. I was asked many times to breed mine (I think most do) but I would never consider it and rather leave it up to the likes of my breeder.

Title: Breeding
Post by: Jane S on October 18, 2005, 12:06:30 PM

I'd enjoy Oscar as your lovely pet :) Ask yourself what kind of a breeder approaches a pet dog she knows nothing about & asks to use him at stud? This isn't something that anyone who has done their homework would do - this lady would have no idea whether Oscar would be compatible with her bitch and probably is just wanting a litter as it seems a "nice idea" :(

Jane

Title: Breeding
Post by: Cob-Web on October 18, 2005, 12:42:56 PM

When we first got Molo, an (un-named) member of our extended family said he thought we were sitting on  "gold mine" as we could use him a stud, and get paid loads for it  :angry:

I provided him with a very long list of reasons why this is NOT a good idea  :rolleyes:

 - Cost of health screening/infection checks

 - Assessing suitability of bitch owner

 - Taking joint responsibility for all puppies

 - Possible change in temperment of dog once he has had a *taste* of a bitch  :ph34r:

 - His *quality* as an example of the breed has not been assessed: so any bitch owners who chose him are not breeding for the improvement of the breed  <_<

These are a few that I can remember: I left the family member in no doubt of the issues involved  :lol:

Enjoy Oscar as a pet; if you decide you want to be involved in breeding in the future then you can find a breeder to help and select a puppy that has good potential as a stud or breeding bitch - good luck  :D

Title: Breeding
Post by: Gilly on October 18, 2005, 02:45:49 PM

Can't add much really to what everyone else has said except I would be VERY dubious of someone (a complete stranger) coming up to me in the street asking if she could use my dog as stud on her bitch  :blink:

Firstly, you should think of her ethics and the fact (No offense to Oscar) that she is quite happy to use ANY dog  :(

Secondly, what are her breeding ethics...she doesn't have any to be honest if she is approaching people in the street.

Thirdly, do you know the temperament and type of her bitch?

I agree enjoy Oscar as a pet. Owning a Stud dog is a huge responsibility.

Title: Breeding
Post by: Penel on October 19, 2005, 10:44:47 AM

Ditto to all of the above - leave the breeding to people who (hopefully) know what they are doing.

Title: Breeding
Post by: lyn on October 19, 2005, 11:11:48 AM

strange,we were walking paddy and approached by a lady who wanted the same thing and pads is just 5 months.some people just want to make money!they have no idea whats really involved.

Title: Breeding
Post by: Workingspaniel on October 22, 2005, 07:36:55 PM

Hi guys,
This is slightly different, but....
I have been approached by people in the park when I've been walking Bella, who have said that if Bella ever has pups they'd be very interested in having one. I took down their numbers and said that Bella definitely wouldn't have pups until at least the age of two and that we will not breed from her if tests such as hip scores etc... prove her to be unsuitable for such a task. The people seemed to be very understanding of this and simply asked me to call them in the future if a litter was to be expected or not as they were prepared to wait for the right pup. Obviously if a litter was going to happen then I'd vet any potential new owners of pups very carefully.
However do you think that these people are going about obtaining a pup the wrong way? or do you think it'd be better just not to call these people when or if a litter is due?

They seemed like very nice people and asked lots of questions about Bellas temperament etc... and whether she had a pedigree and was KC registered etc...

What would you do in this situation?

We were considering breeding Bella anyway (if tests prove agreeable) because we would definitely like to keep at least one and maybe two pups ourselves and have family members who would also like a Bella pup. So the fact that these people have shown interest isn't the reason why we've started to think about possibly breeding.

Any advice would be great as to whether these people could be considered suitable potential owners.

Best wishes Mary

Title: Breeding
Post by: Cob-Web on October 22, 2005, 08:17:25 PM

Quote

Any advice would be great as to whether these people could be considered suitable potential owners.

Best wishes Mary

[snapback]153693[/snapback]

I'm not a breeder, but know when I was looking for a cocker pup, I approached people with cockers to ask where they were bred.......I personally wouldn't have asked if they were considering breeding BUT, if I were looking for a less popular breed I might ask an owner if they planned on breeding themselves  :unsure:

Maybe these people were familiar with working cockers but know that there a fewer breeders of this strain? It can't do any harm to contact them when the time comes and let them know that you are expecting a litter; you may find they can offer perfect homes for your pups..... :unsure:

Title: Breeding
Post by: Workingspaniel on October 22, 2005, 10:35:49 PM

IWlass thankyou for your reply,
I personally do think that these peoples enquiries were inoffensive and respectable. We did exactly the same thing when we saw Bellas mother at a gathering on a moor after a grouse shoot. We'd been thinking of getting a dog but just hadn't decided on which breed of gun dog to get. When we clapped eyes on Bellas mother we just fell in love! We asked loads of questions about the breed etc... and we also knew a lot of the beaters who were on the shoot so the owner did have the back up from a lot of his friends that we were a respectable family that would be suitable for such a dog. So we gave him our details then and there in case Bellas mother ever had pups. Low and behold almost a year later we got a call asking us if we were still interested in a pup, so we said YES! We asked for a bitch if possible, and when the litter came along there were three dogs and two bitches available so we had one of the bitches! Bella was definitely the larger of the two bitch pups and seemed very inquisitive and playful when we visited her at 5 weeks old. We'd also visited before the pups had been born to see Bellas mother, who was by then absolutely enormous with lots of pups inside her and very well looked after, and we also discussed pedigrees etc.. and got to know the breeders who were a delighful family.
So from our experience this approach was very agreeable and pleasant. Although I'm sure not necessarily the best approach.

Anyone elses opinions welcomed on this subject.

Best wishes Mary

Title: Breeding
Post by: workingcockers on October 22, 2005, 11:12:19 PM

No harm in keeping their number and if a litter is expected in the future you can call them and if they are still interested you can make further enquiries as to their suitability before taking thing further..They may well may be happy to wait for a year plus..I waited 14 yrs for a combination of particular lines and I am over the moon with the pup I have bought in recently, even though the timing wasnt too great as I had a litter myself at the time, but when the opportunity arose... :P

Title: Breeding
Post by: Jane S on October 23, 2005, 10:33:43 AM

Quote

This is slightly different, but....
I have been approached by people in the park when I've been walking Bella, who have said that if Bella ever has pups they'd be very interested in having one......

[snapback]153693[/snapback]

Just don't rely on these people being genuinely interested when the time actually comes ;) I wouldn't personally treat seriously inquiries from people you meet out walking in the park - it wouldn't be my idea of the best way of finding good homes for puppies which is really not easy at the best of times. I don't think it's the case that these people are aware that there are fewer breeders of Working Cockers - a look at the KC litter registrations reveals that there are many Working Cockers being bred each year so there is certainly no shortage of breeders of this type of Cocker.

Jane