CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: KarIng on July 21, 2006, 06:21:06 PM
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Hi everyone,
Teddy's been to the groomer's today and she said he's even thinner than last time (six weeks ago) and I should take him to the vets because he may have thyroid problems ...
I took him to the vets just after we got him, so in February/March and then again three weeks later. When we got him he was 9.5 kg and three weeks later he was 12.8 kg and the vet said to watch how much we are feeding him as he was putting on weight too fast; she said he wasn't too fat but we should slow down a bit.
Well, as Ted is always hungry we haven't actually cut down his food at all, but we did swap to Burns. He is very greedy and has about 200g (which I now weigh to make sure it's accurate) spread over three meals, morning lunch and evening. I've also started giving him porridge or weetabix made with water at lunchtime to fill him up - I have to be careful what I give him, chews and things give him the runs. He seems to enjoy the food and it disappears very quickly. He also has treats when we are out walking/training and the odd bonio when he gets in his crate at bedtime or when we have to leave him during the day.
You can maybe just about see his ribs and you can feel them. I've just weighed him when I got back from the groomers and he's 12.6 kg. So I guess I should go the vet and see what they think.
I don't really want to add anything into his diet as it may and probably will give him the runs.
I wondered what everyone else thinks. I've also emailed Burns to ask how much I can give him as a maximum and they said 15 g per kg of body weight, so about what he is getting. What should he weigh?
thanks for any advice.
Karen and Teddy x
P.S. just modified to say, I don't think he is thinner than last time he went to the groomers, but he also hasn't put on weight and my friend's Springer who is about half a year older than Ted, is quite broad and fat, so there is quite a difference, and we took them to the groomers together ...
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'ello...after me recommending burns i've done a u-turn ph34r
i feel really really bad - some dogs really thrive on it, but jarv isn't and i guess teddy isn't either :'(
we're moving onto arden grange (and more and more raw....)
working cockers are quite lean anyway in comparison to show but post a pic if you can karen, i'd love to see your choccy lad...)
(by the way Jarv looks fine and he's 12.7 kg's).
did that shampoo help at all?
hx
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Everyone keeps telling me mocha is to thin because you can see his ribs, but as Helen said workers are a bit like that. I asked the vet and he said he was fine, lean and fit was his words. Also at this age they are charging around so much they burn it off. Increase his food, the vet told me to go back to three meals a day and he has more that the recommended on the dog food packet, but he needs it so I feed him it. I would rather see a lean dog than some of the lardy a**es I see on some of my walks ph34r
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What do I think? This is just my personal opinion but I think your groomer is overreacting and perhaps too used to seeing overweight dogs. Why? 1.Cockers come in all shapes and sizes and the working cockers I have seen, in my area anyway, although muscular, are of a slight build. In other words it's genetic. 2. He may be going through a growth spurt and a gangly phase is quite normal. He will catch up later. 3. Fern my working cocker is 11.1 Kg and like Teddy never refuses her food or treats. (She did get too fat when she was about 18 months old and got to 16Kg! but that was due to extra 'treats' of bread crusts and digestive biscuits from OH which have now stopped). She is regularly wormed, very fit, bouncy, has a glossy coat and never has the runs(tempting providence there perhaps ph34r) I can feel her ribs too and perhaps lately, just see them, in a very bright light so she is getting a few more Bonios atm :005:.
If he is eating well, is wormed regularly and is otherwise quite happy and healthy I really wouldn't worry. :D. I would rather see a lean dog than some of the lardy a**es I see on some of my walks ph34r
I agree 100% Anita :lol: I asked the vet and he said he was fine, lean and fit was his words.
my vet said Fern was in 'awesome condition' the other week ;)
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'ello...after me recommending burns i've done a u-turn ph34r
i feel really really bad - some dogs really thrive on it, but jarv isn't and i guess teddy isn't either :'(
we're moving onto arden grange (and more and more raw....)
working cockers are quite lean anyway in comparison to show but post a pic if you can karen, i'd love to see your choccy lad...)
(by the way Jarv looks fine and he's 12.7 kg's).
did that shampoo help at all?
hx
Sorry, Helen, haven't used the shampoo yet, just generally too lazy in this heat! but will soon and will let you know, thanks so much.
I'm am so loath to change his food again and go through the upset, plus I have just opened a new pack of Burns and it's too expensive to throw away!
Can't work out how to include a piccie here so I'll email you one if that's ok - feel free to post it here if you know how! :-)
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I would take what Teddy's groomer says with a pinch of salt and wait to see what your vet says, tbh ;)
Some "doggy people" like to see dogs with fuller bodied than vets recommend is healthy ;) I have to admit my limited experience has been that people who show their own dogs have said they would prefer to see more meat on Molo :o
If Teddy is still young, then he may not fill-out until he is about 18 months old - Molo didn't ::) You could try adding a bit of Tripe to his Burns if it doesnt upset him; but I agree with Helen - some dogs do well on Burns and for others it is too lean and they do better on a different food :)
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George is a skinny little rake and our vet thinks he is just right. He is about 11.5 kilos and nearly three. There isn't an ounce of fat on him, he's 1/4 working. Don't worry your dog looks smashing to me. :D
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We are currently keeping a close eye on Clive too for his weight. He's 9 months old, 11.4 kilos, and is on 200g adult burns a day. He was 11 kilos for over 2 months when he had problems with colitis, and it was impossible to tell whether he'd finished growing or whether he was having trouble absorbing nutrients because of the colitis. However, he's now put on a little wieght, you can still easily feel his ribs so I'm relatively happy with him.
So long as you and the vet feel okay with his state of health, I wouldn't worry about the groomer. Like other COLs have said, people often like to see plump dogs rather than lean ones, despite the fact this is unhealthy.
Also, Clive is on a large portion of Burns at hte moment, because I think he needs it. Once he starts putting more weight on than is neceessary, or isn't so interested in it (he wolfs it down) I'll cut down, but not before. Package guidelines are juist that - guidelines. ALl dogs are differnet - especially so for cockers ! :luv:
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Ben was on Burns and it is an excellent food but .............. it didn't suit him ;) He begrudgingly ate the recommended amount but was really hungry and scavaging, when I upped the amount he had the runs. I was advised to cut down again but he was really thin. I changed to Arden Grange which is similar in the fact that it has no additives and is a dry food and he loves it! He is a very healthy weight now (can feel his ribs easily but can't see them anymore). Looking back it may have been his age as he was 7 months and very leggy when I changed his food, but his appreciation of a tasty dinner is very evident :005: If Teddy is happy with Burns then I'd stick with it for a while and see how it goes - if he fails to fill out then Arden Grange gets my (and Ben's) recommendation ;)
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If Teddy has had a sensitive tum, and you do want to change him to a different food, then I would recommend looking at the % of protein each food contains; as this can have a significant effect on tummies ::)
Burns is quite low in protein (only 18%), which may be why it suits him; other foods can have much higher protein levels, which can upset some dogs digestion, so its worth checking the labels or manufacturers websites for info ;)
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here's the gorgeous teddy - i think that he could do with a bit more padding, but he is at the gangly teenage stage too....
if you're not keen on tripe karen, you could add a wet food like natures menu to give him a bit more protein
I think he's absolutely beautiful (not that i'm biased AT ALL towards choc's ;))
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/jarvis_2005/teddy2.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/jarvis_2005/teddy1.jpg)
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In the first pic he looks perfect :shades:, but in the second pic I did think a bit of padding was needed...
BUT, I have no experience of working cockers, and don't see them locally, so I can only compare it to a show, and of course that is not a fair comparison..
You can actually see his ribs in the second pic, and he does narrow significantly behind his ribs, and he appears to have a bony bum...
However, if he is happy, healthy and lively then I don't think it is a huge issue...
Obviously, you as his owner know him best and will be the first to notice if he may be poorly.
Personally I would add something 'wet' to his food, like tripe or naturediet and see if that puts a bit of padding on. If it doesn't then perhaps see the vet to see what they think as failure to put on weight may be significant...
He is absolutely gorgeous - I love the chocolate cockers :luv:
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Totally agree with everything Petra said. Chocolate cockers are gorgeous. Teddy is lovely. :luv: But he does look a little boney in the second photo.
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when mine look thin i fatten them up with pasta.i just add some pasta to the complete food.my paddy tends to be on the thin side and the pasta does the trick every time.paddy is not a foodie it's a job and a half getting him to eat anything.ellie who is 4 months went through a skinny stage and the pasta sorted her very quickly :005:she is a pig ph34r and tbh she could do with losing a little weight.she weighs nearly 7 kilos.
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He's gorgeous but obviously a bigger frame than Fern. I agree with Petra and Rhona W. Just a little more padding perhaps? ( but dont do it like my OH did with Digestive biscuits and bread crusts ::) :005: ) I've heard tripe is good for this too but imo do cook it with a clothes peg on your nose ;)
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Teddy :luv: :luv: :luv: - like Helen I'm in love with this little choccie button.
I have to say he looks like Ruffy did when I was concerned about his weight.
In our case alot of it was down to Ruffys dodgy digestion - but he has put on some weight, but he is still what I'd call lean.
I tried both Vahri and Ruffy on Burns, Ruffy was on the high nutrition puppy one and Vahri was on the Weighs Watchers version - oddly enough Vahri piled on the pounds and Ruffy faded away before our eyes, so it was a quick about turn for us too.
With Vahri having been spayed I keep a close eye on her weight - she's a fine big lass, and Ruffy well he will always be a wee skelf.
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We asked exactly the same question about max (11months) a few months ago on COL, you could feel his ribs and in certain positions you could see them.
As said earlier on, we found increasing Burns gives max the runs, and the vet did have a look at him and said he's a very active dog with a high metabolism, and not to worry.
Again the vet suggested we could give a third meal.
As recomended to us by people on here we gave max more tripe, and increased his meat, so now hes mostly on barf with the occasional Burns meal. Max has more than the recomended amounts and although he has gained some weight he is still a fairly skinny dog. ( or well defined )
We don't worry to much about it any more as he is very fit and healthy. It may also be hormonal, and the weight will be gained when he's older.
On looking at Max he looks only slighty more filled out than Teddy, but not much .Max at 11 months weighs 14kg and he is a long leggy dog.
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My cocker Wilf is just as thin as Teddy in that pic, but he has more fur (he's show type and neutered) --- personally I think its the angle of the 2nd pic thats the problem (if a dog is healthy and eating well then I can't see the problem in them being thin). I was talking to a groomer recently and he thought my cocker Wilf looked fantastic as he always sees fat cockers.
Wilf eats well, is not ill (apart from his lameness at the moment), and so being thin is fine
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I agree he does look thinner in the 2nd pick. Herbie is skinny, no matter what he eats but he has a lot of fur so you don't notice it until he gets out of the water and his coat is stuck to him. Teddy doesn't seem to have a great deal of coat so maybe that's why he looks thinner.
He looks very healthy - he is lovely :luv:
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He does look too thin in the 2nd pic - Burns is useless for putting weight on a dog - its brilliant when you want them to lose weight.... you need to feed him on tripe, pasta, potatoes, raw breast of lamb which is fatty....
Here lemme show you two pics of our little waif Gracie - first one a few days after she came to live with us....
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/IMG_6832aa.jpg)
and this one taken at the beach this week.... 4 months later after a raw diet, of tripe and lamb breast.... ( I know she still looks very slim but that's the type of dog she is - but you can see how much weight she has put on - about 4 kgs in 4 months)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/IMG_0015.jpg)
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In the first pic he looks perfect :shades:, but in the second pic I did think a bit of padding was needed...
BUT, I have no experience of working cockers, and don't see them locally, so I can only compare it to a show, and of course that is not a fair comparison..
You can actually see his ribs in the second pic, and he does narrow significantly behind his ribs, and he appears to have a bony bum...
However, if he is happy, healthy and lively then I don't think it is a huge issue...
Obviously, you as his owner know him best and will be the first to notice if he may be poorly.
Personally I would add something 'wet' to his food, like tripe or naturediet and see if that puts a bit of padding on. If it doesn't then perhaps see the vet to see what they think as failure to put on weight may be significant...
He is absolutely gorgeous - I love the chocolate cockers :luv:
Thanks for your help and advice everyone, I too would like to see Ted fill out a bit but wasn't sure how much fatter he should be or not! So, given that he tends to get the runs straight away if he eats chews or hide or I change his food, which sort of Naturediet should I get for him - the chicken with rice and carrots for sensitive tums or the chicken and tripe for building body!? - and can I buy if anywhere other than over the net (I've just googled it and found pet supermarket stock it but would have to wait for delivery).
Helen, thanks very much for posting the photos.
Teddy does seem happy but is always hungry. He'll be a year old on 28th August so I guess he's at the gangly stage. But he's not put on weight since he was last at the vets in March/April, although he eats loads. Today he's had about 240g of Burns and a bowl of porridge made with water to avoid upsetting his stomach.
I can't really face giving him fresh tripe or stuff, sorry for being so squeamish!
Thanks again.
Karen and Teddy x
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when mine look thin i fatten them up with pasta.i just add some pasta to the complete food.my paddy tends to be on the thin side and the pasta does the trick every time.paddy is not a foodie it's a job and a half getting him to eat anything.ellie who is 4 months went through a skinny stage and the pasta sorted her very quickly :005:she is a pig ph34r and tbh she could do with losing a little weight.she weighs nearly 7 kilos.
Can they have any sort of pasta, i.e. can I give him wholewheat pasta, and do I just cook it and stir it in with his dry food - does it matter if warm or cold?
Thanks.
Karen and Teddy x
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I agree he does look thinner in the 2nd pick. Herbie is skinny, no matter what he eats but he has a lot of fur so you don't notice it until he gets out of the water and his coat is stuck to him. Teddy doesn't seem to have a great deal of coat so maybe that's why he looks thinner.
He looks very healthy - he is lovely :luv:
Teddy has very little fur and has also just been bathed and groomed, he doesn't always look that thin. I have also just been away for five days and my other half looked after him so he may have been feeding him differently and Ted may have been pining a little. And maybe the heat is affecting him a bit too?
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Why don't you just buy one block of frozen tripe - and see... all you have to do is let it defrost in his bowl, cover it with clingfilm - and feed it.......... its very very simple.... he will love it, and he will put on weight..... you don't even have to touch it.
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Why don't you just buy one block of frozen tripe - and see... all you have to do is let it defrost in his bowl, cover it with clingfilm - and feed it.......... its very very simple.... he will love it, and he will put on weight..... you don't even have to touch it.
Where do I buy it and don't I have to cook it?
Sorry to ask so many questions, I feel stupid but when we had dogs when I still lived at home they just had Pedigree chum out of a can and I never had these problems before! That's 20 odd years ago and things were different!
Karen and Teddy x
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you don't need to cook the tripe.and as for the pasta i use whatever is in the cupboard.just cook a batch up and give it him in his food.mine both eat it warm or cold.potatos are also very good at fattening them up(thanks for this tip to penel :D)boiled not raw ;)
now i am not sure yet but i think where mine are now fed a lot of raw food they are looking very healthy.ellie is a little chubby but she is so young i am not overly bothered.paddy was a bit dubious about raw chicken and so i flash fry it first but he is looking great now and def not as skinny as he used to be.no upset tummis either :D
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Hi Karen,
you can buy frozen raw green tripe from most pet shops that have freezers... you can buy it either "free flow" which is a bag of minced tripe, or in 400gram blocks... I would guess he would need half a block for one meal.... no you definitely do not cook it unless you want to stink your house out :lol: I defrost for mine in a tupperware type container, with the lid on, then divide into their bowls and feed immediately. A block usually takes about 12 hours to defrost, free flow mince takes less - about 8 hours. So if mine are having tripe for breakfast I take it out of the freezer about teatime.
Dogs have been fed on raw tripe for donkeys years, long before Pedigree Chum was "invented" ;) :D
Go on give it a go, he'll thank you for it I promise !
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Stinks but they love it. Try it just you wait and see the look of pure joy on your woofers face the smell will be worth it. We used it to get a little weight on George a while ago did the trick ;)
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Dill is on the raw tripe blocks that Penel describes as part of his Barf...
It does not smell - I take out his portion (I split the block whilst frozen and freeze in individual portions) at teatime ready to feed at breakfast. He loves it!!
Try it - honestly, it won't smell, don't cook it as it will smell!!
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Dill is on the raw tripe blocks that Penel describes as part of his Barf...
It does not smell - I take out his portion (I split the block whilst frozen and freeze in individual portions) at teatime ready to feed at breakfast. He loves it!!
Try it - honestly, it won't smell, don't cook it as it will smell!!
Where do you buy it? I've searched and searched online, there don't seem to be any pet shops locally apart from Pets at Home and Jolleys and I don't think they have freezers so guess they won't stock frozen tripe. Can I order it for delivery?
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He does look too thin in the 2nd pic - Burns is useless for putting weight on a dog - its brilliant when you want them to lose weight.... you need to feed him on tripe, pasta, potatoes, raw breast of lamb which is fatty....
Here lemme show you two pics of our little waif Gracie - first one a few days after she came to live with us....
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/IMG_6832aa.jpg)
and this one taken at the beach this week.... 4 months later after a raw diet, of tripe and lamb breast.... ( I know she still looks very slim but that's the type of dog she is - but you can see how much weight she has put on - about 4 kgs in 4 months)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/IMG_0015.jpg)
Can I buy raw lamb breast at the butchers, and will they know how I want it cut if I say it's for my dog? will it be on the bone or cubed? I'm going to slowly introduce some pasta, potatoes and tripe, and some raw meat and see what happens. Maybe he has just stopped gaining weight since he was put on Burns but as he's very leggy and may still be growing a bit, he looks thinner.
BTW, Gracie is beautiful!
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You can get the raw blocks of tripe in Pets at Home (that is where I get mine, they have freezers...)
Good luck, and give the gorgeous Teddy a big squidge from me.
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Yes I think all Pets at Home have freezers - certainly all the ones I've been in do anyway.
I buy breast of lamb from Tesco - its rolled up and is v cheap - £2.99 per kg (its Tesco value).... I then slice it into pieces to feed to the dogs. I've never bought it direct from the butcher so I dunno how much it would be - but its a v cheap cut ..
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Dill is on the raw tripe blocks that Penel describes as part of his Barf...
It does not smell - I take out his portion (I split the block whilst frozen and freeze in individual portions) at teatime ready to feed at breakfast. He loves it!!
Try it - honestly, it won't smell, don't cook it as it will smell!!
Where do you buy it? I've searched and searched online, there don't seem to be any pet shops locally apart from Pets at Home and Jolleys and I don't think they have freezers so guess they won't stock frozen tripe. Can I order it for delivery?
Our local Jolleys (which is pretty small) has a freezer with a small range of frozen food in it - until I started looking into BARF I had no idea they had them though; they are hidden in a corner ::) They sell the Prize Choice 400g blocks of tripe, or beef/tripe dinner which I buy too.
Molo puts weight on if he so much as looks at Tripe - I have to restrict him to a small portion twice a week, otherwise he looks tubby ::) ::)
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I would rather see a lean dog than some of the lardy a**es I see on some of my walks ph34r
Same here although I was worried Floss was a bit thin when she was younger, but she is looking just fine now. More so since going on to a raw food diet with plenty of tripe and pasta included with a little bit of dried food occasionally.
This was her looking skinny about 4 months ago bearing in mind she was only 7 mths.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b396/grannynic/flmar0602s.jpg)
and this is her now shwe is almost a year old now
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b396/grannynic/floss10mtss.jpg)
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aww i lurve little floss ;)
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Success! I went to Pets at Home but they didn't have a freezer so no tripe, also they only had NatureDiet in Lite or Puppy. But then I went to Jolleys where they had a freezer with tripe and also NatureDiet Lamb and Carrots and Rice, so I've got 8 of those and gave him half a pack for his second lunch which he wolfed down - he had his Burns lunch just before I went shopping. Should I give him one whole pack of Naturediet for one of his meals, one meal of Burns and one of tripe? All with pasta and/or carrots etc added? I bought two blocks of the minced tripe and chicken to try him with - I shied away from minced tripe on its own because it said on the pack for working dogs only, do not feed to pets! Does this matter?
Now I'm going to go on tesco.com to add lamb breast to my order! I will fatten this boy up! But don't worry, I'm adding it in gradually. He's very happy up to now! Loved the Naturediet food.
Thanks everyone, I'll keep you posted.
Karen and Teddy x
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HI Karen,
well done !!! :D when it says for working dogs only thats a tax dodge - just means we don't pay VAT on tripe.... mine aren't working dogs ;) (they are lazy gits !) and they all eat tripe :D
I personally would like to try and persuade you to feed only raw - but can understand you wanting to take it slowly. Maybe finish up the Burns you already have, and then phase that out - Burns really does not put weight on dogs - its great for dogs needing to lose weight but not the opposite.
You don't need to add pasta or veg to the Naturediet - that is already a complete meal. Same as Natures Menu pouches they are a very similar food, and also complete.
You can add pasta or rice to the raw tripe / chicken if you want to but it isn't really necessary.
Remember you are feeding the lamb breast raw - not cooked...
Good luck !
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Remember you are feeding the lamb breast raw - not cooked...
I know similar questions have been raised on COL but can I just ask specifically with lamb breast, is there no fear of splinters with these bones? Do your dogs automatically crunch them up? If I were, for example to offer Fern raw lamb breast with the bones, a seven year old, who has never been offered raw meat before and is used to swallowing everything offered her whole ::), is there no chance that she might try to swallow these whole too and cause her to choke? :-\
I am not trying to put anyone off BARF at all. The theory behind it makes perfect sense to me, I just wonder -would a pup perhaps take to BARF more readily and more sensibly than an adult?
This sounds stupid now I have written it down but she is so 'enthusiastic' with her food - doesn't know what 'being picky' is. .....perhaps I should start her off with a large cow shin bone ;)
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The lamb breast we've been referring to that you buy in Tescos doesn't have any bones in it.
But - the lamb breast with bones in is more likely what you would get from the butcher - you'd have to ask them to leave the bones in though... mine eat it with no probs - and I have introduced 3 adult dogs to raw feeding .... only 2 of mine have been fed raw from pups.
You'd just have to make sure the pieces you gave her were large enough that she couldn't bolt them down - and had to lie down and chew them !
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Excuse the ignorance but what is exactly is tripe - I mean where does it come from and which animal?
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Stomach lining ph34r
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Cow, sheep or pig stomachs ph34r
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe
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yum yum eh kb :005:
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Do people still eat this? :shades:
What about you Penel - have you tried it out? :shades:
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Do people still eat this? :shades:
What about you Penel - have you tried it out? :shades:
;) Yes they do, it's very nice raw with salt, pepper and vinegar or cooked with onions in milk! :blink:
Better still is 'ELDER' (cow's udder!) :lol:
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Remember you are feeding the lamb breast raw - not cooked...
I know similar questions have been raised on COL but can I just ask specifically with lamb breast, is there no fear of splinters with these bones? Do your dogs automatically crunch them up? If I were, for example to offer Fern raw lamb breast with the bones, a seven year old, who has never been offered raw meat before and is used to swallowing everything offered her whole ::), is there no chance that she might try to swallow these whole too and cause her to choke? :-\
I am not trying to put anyone off BARF at all. The theory behind it makes perfect sense to me, I just wonder -would a pup perhaps take to BARF more readily and more sensibly than an adult?
This sounds stupid now I have written it down but she is so 'enthusiastic' with her food - doesn't know what 'being picky' is. .....perhaps I should start her off with a large cow shin bone ;)
Ruby's 5 months, but we switched her over to raw after she had been eating complete kibble, and so I can't speak for older dogs, but she certainly ate evrything without it touching the sides - her kibble, treats - once she swallowed a hard boiled egg (shelled, obviously) in one go without chewing!
So I was concerned she'd eat too quick and choke and kept a v.close eye on her when we switched her diet. It turned out not to be a problem really as she hadn't had raw bones before and at first looked at it as if to say 'What's this - do I eat it?' And so she ate very slowly, giving it a lot of licking first. Also, I would start with bigger bones, like a big chunk of oxtail maybe, and move on to chicken wings after she's learned to eat more slowly. You could also give it to her partly frozen - that will really slow down the eating speed! We did this as we thought it would be soothing whilst Ruby was teething, and also when it''s very hot. It'll occupy her for 45 mins.
There's an article in Dogs Today about raw feeding this month which I read with interest. They start by talking about a case where a poor dog died after choking on a chicken wing. Two things popped to my attention: the owner admits she listened to others who said 'BARF's good' and just started adding stuff to their diet without doing any further reading!!! Also, she just plonked chicken wings on top of their kibble, so of course he was used to bolting down the whole meal and swallowed a bit whole which damaged his insides and caused his death. It was so very sad, but I wouldn't have switched Ruby over without extensive reading and research - I bought 5 books from Amazon - and they each have chapters in which deal with making the transition in an older dog.
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Another tripe-eater here...me, not the dog! :005: :005: You can order it at chinese dimsum where it's steamed with green onions, yum ;)
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I hasten to add people are eating bleached washed tripe (cooked) whereas the dogs are eating unwashed raw "green" tripe :D and no I don't eat it :D
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Saw a repeat of the River Cottage programme last week when Hugh FW was making tripe. Disgusting but fascinating at the same time! :005: ph34r
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Isn't suet actually just tripe?
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HI Karen,
well done !!! :D when it says for working dogs only thats a tax dodge - just means we don't pay VAT on tripe.... mine aren't working dogs ;) (they are lazy gits !) and they all eat tripe :D
I personally would like to try and persuade you to feed only raw - but can understand you wanting to take it slowly. Maybe finish up the Burns you already have, and then phase that out - Burns really does not put weight on dogs - its great for dogs needing to lose weight but not the opposite.
You don't need to add pasta or veg to the Naturediet - that is already a complete meal. Same as Natures Menu pouches they are a very similar food, and also complete.
You can add pasta or rice to the raw tripe / chicken if you want to but it isn't really necessary.
Remember you are feeding the lamb breast raw - not cooked...
Good luck !
Thanks. What sort of amounts should I be feeding now? I've been working my way through all the BARF threads on COL but find them very confusing as they all talk about so many different foods.
Today Ted had about 70 g Burns for breakfast. Then for lunch he had half a block of tripe/chicken and then half a Naturediet pack (I will give him whole packs soon, but don't want to give him huge amounts of lots of different things at once). He'll have another meal tonight, I thought I might add some cooked pasta and carrots to some Burns and once he's used to that I might make his evening meal lamb with carrots and/or pasta or potatoes. Does this seem like the right amount for his size and age (nearly 11 months and 12.5 kg)?
Also how will I know that he is getting all the nutrients he needs if I phase out the Burns? Or would it be better for my peace of mind to keep one meal of complete dog food (but obviously not Burns once I've finished this pack - maybe Arden Grange or JWB) and then feed tripe one meal and Naturediet the other meal?
Sorry if all this has been said before, it's all very new to me. I'm looking for a book for novices and have just been taking notes from the Sort of BARF thread.
Karen and Ted x
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Isn't suet actually just tripe? No suet is the fat around the kidneys. ;)
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Thanks. What sort of amounts should I be feeding now? I've been working my way through all the BARF threads on COL but find them very confusing as they all talk about so many different foods.
Today Ted had about 70 g Burns for breakfast. Then for lunch he had half a block of tripe/chicken and then half a Naturediet pack (I will give him whole packs soon, but don't want to give him huge amounts of lots of different things at once). He'll have another meal tonight, I thought I might add some cooked pasta and carrots to some Burns and once he's used to that I might make his evening meal lamb with carrots and/or pasta or potatoes. Does this seem like the right amount for his size and age (nearly 11 months and 12.5 kg)?
Also how will I know that he is getting all the nutrients he needs if I phase out the Burns? Or would it be better for my peace of mind to keep one meal of complete dog food (but obviously not Burns once I've finished this pack - maybe Arden Grange or JWB) and then feed tripe one meal and Naturediet the other meal?
Sorry if all this has been said before, it's all very new to me. I'm looking for a book for novices and have just been taking notes from the Sort of BARF thread.
Karen and Ted x
I wouldn't feed cooked pasta or potatoes - dogs don't need carbs in the same way humans do. Also I wouldn't feed just tripe - I'd go for a variety of raw meats and make sure the majority are on the bone. Add to the diet of raw meaty bones, raw fish, raw vegetables, raw fruit and raw eggs including the shells. As long as you vary the types of meat they eat and give a variety of different sorts of fruit and veg, they're probably getting a balance.
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I wouldn't feed cooked pasta or potatoes - dogs don't need carbs in the same way humans do. Also I wouldn't feed just tripe - I'd go for a variety of raw meats and make sure the majority are on the bone. Add to the diet of raw meaty bones, raw fish, raw vegetables, raw fruit and raw eggs including the shells. As long as you vary the types of meat they eat and give a variety of different sorts of fruit and veg, they're probably getting a balance.
Now I'm getting very confused. I thought feeding Ted cooked pasta and potatoes would fatten him up? and feeding tripe would fatten him up too?
So would it be ok temporarily to feed him one meal of Burns until it's all gone, one meal of Naturediet (one pack) and one meal of tripe with pasta/potatoes and carrots or something similar, until he's put on a bit of weight. Then maybe drop the pasta and potatoes and start feeding one meal of complete food, and one meal of Prizechoice frozen meat which says it contains bone and veg and one meal of Naturediet with the odd bone, raw carrot, raw egg etc thrown in as a treat. I know this isn't BARF properly but would it be a good compromise and would he get the nutrients he needs and it be sufficient to fill him?
Sorry for any confusion.
Karen and Ted x
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Oh yes sorry if you're fattening up then do. I forgot the title of the post! Once he's fatter then I'd go fully raw feeding though.
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Why on earth wouldn't you feed tripe Claire ? its fabulous for dogs.
Karen - if you want to feed the three different types of meals - I would do Burns breakfast (no idea on amounts tho), then half a pack Naturediet for lunch, then half block tripe (or other raw meat) with pasta/potato for dinner.... don't feed him too much or he'll just be sick ! steady and slow is the way to get weight on him.
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Why on earth wouldn't you feed tripe Claire ? its fabulous for dogs.
Karen - if you want to feed the three different types of meals - I would do Burns breakfast (no idea on amounts tho), then half a pack Naturediet for lunch, then half block tripe (or other raw meat) with pasta/potato for dinner.... don't feed him too much or he'll just be sick ! steady and slow is the way to get weight on him.
Thank you, will continue like that for now and see how he fares for a few weeks.
I've spent most of the afternoon reading the UK Barf Club website! Very interesting. They recommend adding liquidised leafy green veg and salad veg, but I'm sure I read somewhere that dogs shouldnt have lettuce or cucumber as they have upset tums afterwards. Anyone else heard this?
Karen and Ted x
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Nope - mine regularly eat salad leftovers - in fact Lola has been known to erm climb onto the table and help herself from the salad bowl if I am sorting out the food in the kitchen :o :005:
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Nope - mine regularly eat salad leftovers - in fact Lola has been known to erm climb onto the table and help herself from the salad bowl if I am sorting out the food in the kitchen :o :005:
There seems to be a theme where Lola and tables are concerned :005: :005:
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Why on earth wouldn't you feed tripe Claire ? its fabulous for dogs.
Sorry was tired yesterday and failed to explain myself properly! ::) I was referring to earlier post I'd made:
I wouldn't feed cooked pasta or potatoes - dogs don't need carbs in the same way humans do. Also I wouldn't feed just tripe - I'd go for a variety of raw meats
It's pasta and pots I wouldn't feed after the dog had been fattened up. Tripe I would feed.
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Lol I thought you'd gone mad :005:
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....ok penel...i admit it...
you worked your magic with the tripe...
karen is away this weekend but emailed me pics of teddy to post for you all. I am amazed at the difference in a week! he certainly has taken to his weight putting on regime :shades:
the lovely teddy with his first raw egg :luv: :luv: :luv:
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/jarvis_2005/tedandegg1.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/jarvis_2005/tedandegg3.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/jarvis_2005/tedandegg1-1.jpg)
(that last pic of him makes me go awwwwwww...... :luv: :luv: :luv: jarv does that 'who me?' innocent look too :luv:)
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Wow he does look better - excellent stuff eh ! :shades:
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That's called Elvis lip in our house :005:. Very cute.
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Hi everyone,
Helen, thanks for posting the pics. Just got back from long weekend away.
Yes, the tripe and Nature's Menu and raw lamb have worked wonders with our Ted, he looks great and enjoys his new food enormously! Will now start to cut back the tripe, think I'll use up this bag and then get something different from Prizechoice and see what he thinks.
Thank you everyone for your advice.
Karen and Teddy x
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Very glad to have been able to help - he looks fabulous.... mine eat tripe every day - I just cut down the amount if they begin to look podgy !