CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: DennyK on August 15, 2006, 12:29:29 PM
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Paddy finished his six week course of anti-biotics two weeks ago on Thursday. Within two days, we had diarrhoea. Within a further two days, we had mucus. By one week - we had bad breath beginning, flatulence beginning (been a wind-free pup for two months), blood in his pooh and skin scurf.
I read the raw feeding books and realised I was in danger of "paralysis by analysis". After meeting Petra at the Wag & Bone show and talking about raw feeding, I just did it last Friday, because I can't think of anything else to try and the books were reassuring and persuasive. Final conviction was seeing the scurf on Paddy - he didn't want to be stroked over his hind quarters because the skin had dried out so much. Went to the butchers, got a load of minced lamb, minced turkey, chicken wings, chicken backs and oxtail (two vertebrae long for the thick top end, three vertebrae long for the skinny end).
Went to get Paddy from the pet sitter - told her husband to bin the remaining half tin of Chappie and took Paddy home.
Three chicken wings and some pureed broccoli and carrots, with Dorwest's Tree Barks powder and Keepers' Mix powder (kelp and various odds & sods for minerals and vitamins and fibre) mixed in. Paddy looked at me as if I was insane, although this was partly because OH and I were hovering like anxious parents over his head to see what his reaction was. Totally agree with Claire's post on another thread: he scowled at me like "what the bloody hell do you think you're doing, missus? Eh?"
Started to ignore him, didn't work. Then put chicken wings in his bowl (nice one courtesy of ClaireP...) - wings swiped as fast as he could move, out to the lawn and set to work. It was so lovely to see him taking time to eat instead of inhaling his food in a manic sort of desperation....tail wagging nineteen to the dozen the whole time.
So, four days in: skin almost cleared up already, poohs are firm but not hard, lighter in colour, no mucus in them, no blood, much less volume produced. Breath is clear again, no wind and Paddy is enjoying his food so much. Only "not a chance, luv" reaction since the first night was a rainbow trout fillet: thought he'd go mad for it (it smelled fishy) but no, didn't like it. So gave him a tin of Penel's recommended sardines in tomato sauce.
Chicken backs seem ace - little bits of organs still attached, meat and skin as well as the bone. Do you think I need to buy some heart/liver/kidney anyway? I'd planned to feed some once a week in addition.
I spent an hour on Friday night dividing up all the food into portion sizes in freezer bags and had to rejig freezer to accommodate it. Am now feeding mince with Keeper's Mix and Tree Barks powder plus pureed veg in the mornings - saves time as I have to get Pads out the door by 6.45/7am latest. Evenings - meaty bones.
What would you recommend as a recreational marrow bone for chewing and getting to the marrow?
Any other tips/gaps you can recommend?
Yippeee....here's hoping it sorts Paddy out: if he stabilises I won't need to go to see Penel's vet, if not...then I've got his number.
Denise
PS - eyes have stopped running again, too...
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YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY for raw feeding!!!!!!!!!!! :D ;)
Fingers crossed it carries on working for your poor pooch and is funny bot!! :D
He'll soon be wolfing those bones down if he is anything like mine, they enjoy them, but they have a developed technique!!!!!!!!!
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Mega wow for such a quick improvement - long may it continue!
Good for you for giving it a go :D
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Hi, I raw feed Archie who is 13 months old, we decided to raw feed after Archie would not eat for 10 days, hated any type of kibble. I measure by eye and his waistline, I keep his waist under 20inches, if he nears this then I either cut the food back a bit or up his exercise.
I feed every day for morning feed something with bone, ie chicken (chicken quarter does two meals) or rabbit (1 rabbit does three meals!) in the evening he will have any of, kidneys, ox heart, lambs heart, belly pork, lamb breast, pigs ear, once a week he will have tinned fish in oil with a whole smashed up egg and his worming powder (DE). For a treat or if I want to amuse him for a while whilst I go out I give him a pigs trotter, as I dont have a garden Archie has these in his crate, which he is very happy about. I do not give any veg at all cos a dogs digestive system was not created for that and they cant digest it, afterall they wouldnt eat them in the wild!!
Archie is thriving, his coat is lovely and shiny, his teeth are whiter than white and I never have to clean them, his poops are lovely firm and small!! Archie is a happy little boy who loves his life, he shows this by his love for me,the family and anybody that stops to talk to him, he loves his exercise. Even when you tell Archie off his tail wags like no tomorrow.
This is my opinion of raw feeding, it has worked for and Archie and we are both happy with it. I hope it works for you, it sounds like it is. ;)
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I do not give any veg at all cos a dogs digestive system was not created for that and they cant digest it, afterall they wouldnt eat them in the wild!!
Archie is thriving, his coat is lovely and shiny, his teeth are whiter than white and I never have to clean them
This is my opinion of raw feeding, it has worked for and Archie and we are both happy with it. I hope it works for you, it sounds like it is. ;)
Archiebuy...good for you. You will be familiar with the phrase, "fit as a butchers dog"...I wonder what all that is about? I dont know how to link to another thread, but I added some of my experience with raw feeding to another thread yesterday. (have a lok at my recent posts)
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:shades: what can I say - I need a "cheering" smiley :D
I hope he continues to improve !!!
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Fantastic news Denise - long may his new found health continue! Bella's been on the diet for 10 months now and is really thriving on it, not a single ear or eye infection for 10 months where before they were about twice a month. I noticed with her after about 3 months of the diet she suddenly kind of bloomed and she's stayed that way ever since.
Keep us updated on how it's going and well done for taking the plunge, I'm sure you won't look back. :D
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Raw really does make a difference to your dogs health. Well done for having a go ;)
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Great for giving it a go, and good to hear you have had positive results :D We are back on BARF after a few recent stays in kennels - it makes such a difference in such a few days :D
Too much marrow gives Molo the squits, btw - so you might want to ration it at first to see how Paddy gets on with it ;)
As an alternative, You could fill a hollow bone with raw mince and then freeze it; it lasts for hours ph34r
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Glad to hear that Paddy is OK ;)
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Brilliant news :D, so pleased to hear Paddy's health is much better.
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That sounds really good. Keep us posted, and lots of info for those of us who haven't yet taken the plunge,
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YIPEEEE!!!!!! WHOOHOO!!!
Denise, i am so so so pleased!!! Absoloutely brilliant!!!
Long may it continue!!
Dill loves his raw food (have just spent an hour whizzing veg and freezing it in portions with raw green tripe (urgh what a smell)
I noticed when Dill stayed at my MIL for 6 days when we went on hols his health declined... ( I had given her Nature Diet to feed to him)
When we picked him up his eyes seemed much more weepy, he had a few hotspots on his skin and his pooh was runny....
Within a week of being back on raw all this cleared up.
I will certainly never look back - I love feeding Dill this way, love the variety in his diet, he enjoys his food so much and it is lovely seeing him crunch away on a bone. Tonight for his tea he had lamb ribs, yesterday it was chicken legs, he had tripe for breakfast this morning.... I just get excited by all the variety and hope Dill does too....
Whilst I did loads of reading to start, now I dip in and out as and when I have a query. It seems kind of natural now, I don't worry about an exact mix of veg, just go by a variety of colour ( ::)) and in terms of how much to feed I just go by Dill - larger portions if he looks thin, smaller if he looks big....
Please keep us posted on the gorgeous Paddy's progress!!
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Mine had a huge handful of blueberries in their veg mix this time - cos I bought too many ::) :lol: so they had spinach, watercress, a few carrots, a couple of apples, a couple of courgettes, 2 or 3 red peppers, and the blueberries :D twill last about a month cos I did loads !
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Bella often gets blueberries as well, we have them in alot as we have them with cereal in the mornings, so her veg mix is usually red or yellow pepper, apple, celery, carrot, spinach, blueberries and strawberries if we have them in, smells lovely!
She loves her veg, especially broccolli, tomatoes and peppers, always comes and sits prettily in the kitchen to get a bit of tomato or pepper if you're chopping them and gets the occasional stem of purple sprouting broccolli as a treat (although obviously she can't process them unless pulped so these are just great low-calorie treats as far as I'm concerned! :D).
Her fave meals are:
- nature's menu frozen tripe and beef
- sardines and raw egg (usually gets them at the same time)
- breast of lamb
she always goes and pleasure rolls on our front doormat after these meals, with much grunting and pleasure growling :005:
It's great the way they love the food sooooo much, when she was on kibble I'd say "dindins" and she'd trot happily into the kitchen to wait for it - say that to her now and she leaps up and literally goes into a spin out of excitement! :lol:
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You know my views about raw feeding - but if it works for Paddy, thats what is most important ;)
I hope you feel less anxious about him too, now you have made the move and decided to try him :D
I hope he continues to do well and enjoys his new found interest in food ;)
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It's great the way they love the food sooooo much, when she was on kibble I'd say "dindins" and she'd trot happily into the kitchen to wait for it - say that to her now and she leaps up and literally goes into a spin out of excitement! :lol:
OMG. That just might put me off the idea completely!
Buddy does the leaping and spinning for his Burns. What will he do for BARF???
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It's great the way they love the food sooooo much, when she was on kibble I'd say "dindins" and she'd trot happily into the kitchen to wait for it - say that to her now and she leaps up and literally goes into a spin out of excitement! :lol:
OMG. That just might put me off the idea completely!
Buddy does the leaping and spinning for his Burns. What will he do for BARF???
:lol: :lol: triple somersaults, the can-can and a lovely rendition of "i've got a luvverly bunch of coconuts"? :005:
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It's great the way they love the food sooooo much, when she was on kibble I'd say "dindins" and she'd trot happily into the kitchen to wait for it - say that to her now and she leaps up and literally goes into a spin out of excitement! :lol:
OMG. That just might put me off the idea completely!
Buddy does the leaping and spinning for his Burns. What will he do for BARF???
:lol: :lol: triple somersaults, the can-can and a lovely rendition of "i've got a luvverly bunch of coconuts"? :005:
"I've got a luvverly bunch of coconuts...could someone pulp them so I can absorb the nutrients, please?"
gotta have a well informed dog...
On a serious note, for the first time since he's been on the food last night (so just one week in) Paddy had a soft pooh. It was his third of the day, and the other two were fine. Is this normal? Do other BARF'ers still get occasional soft poohs? (Oh, the questions that get asked on this website. And answered!) ph34r
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Do other BARF'ers still get occasional soft poohs? (Oh, the questions that get asked on this website. And answered!) ph34r
Molo's poo varies depending on what he eats - occasionally I get the balance of bone/meat wrong and he gets either a bit bunged up or a bit loose ::) The one thing I do notice is it is far less "smelly" when he's on BARF - even if its loose, it doesn't make me gag ph34r
Dog only knows what he ate yesterday though - his poo this morning was covered in green slime and had red bits in it ph34r ph34r
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We feed Harry on a small amount of kibble and mostly raw meat. You can buy packs of frozen ground up rabbit, chicken, beef etc from Pets At Home - which he loves - our breeder sggested it. It is not only the meat but the bones and insides too so he gets lots of nutrients and calcium.
He also gets eggs - raw or scrambled, vegetables (sometimes frozen in his kong) pilchards, cod and has only ever had one upset stomach when we gave him puppy milk which he was a bit old for and ended up with diaorhea.
Funnily enough he won't touch Pedigree pupy food - but after seeing all the additives in it I'm not surprised! I feel much better feeding a healthy, reduced additive diet. The kibble he gets is Hill Science Plan.
Glad to hear Paddy is doing well!
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Dill has been a bit 'loose' this week, not sure what the cause is, but could be anything he snaffled in the woods, water from the ponds, you name it...
Don't panic, unless this is a permanent change...
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On a serious note, for the first time since he's been on the food last night (so just one week in) Paddy had a soft pooh. It was his third of the day, and the other two were fine. Is this normal? Do other BARF'ers still get occasional soft poohs? (Oh, the questions that get asked on this website. And answered!) ph34r
Yes occassional soft poos. She loves raw carrots to chew on whole - she sometimes eats one all in one go, and then yes, it's a bit soft. The other cause is food she gets hold of in the park that she should not be having.
The one thing I do notice is it is far less "smelly" when he's on BARF - even if its loose, it doesn't make me gag ph34r
Quite agree. This usually determines for me whether I have the balance slightly wrong or she's had a bit too much 'recreational' veg to chew on (soft but not smelly) or whether she's found some Chinese takeaway/picnic leftovers in the park (soft and smelly).
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I am poised on the cliff top ready to take the plunge, my only concern is that Maddy at some time or other will have to go to kennels or a dog sitter, will it be extremely more difficult to find a kennel/sitter that will continue BARF for her during her stay :huh:
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I am poised on the cliff top ready to take the plunge, my only concern is that Maddy at some time or other will have to go to kennels or a dog sitter, will it be extremely more difficult to find a kennel/sitter that will continue BARF for her during her stay :huh:
We BARF, but Molo has Burns on occasion, so that pet sitters/kennels are not a problem :)
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I am glad it is working out for you - we've been feeding raw since 1st May - no looking back for us either - boys wouldn't let me anyway :D Brogan does Dougal spins all the way out to the garage fridge/freezer at meal times - he then runs backwards out of my way so I can open the door faster :005:
Boys get the odd soft poo - Brogan had one today with a slight touch of mucus around it - the first in a very long time - expect that was something he picked up on a walk or something the kids dropped ::)
I am finding it cheaper than using Naturediet.
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How is Paddy now, Denise?
I'm watching this with Great Interest as CLive is being starved today due to massive diawotsis and yesterday. Poor boy is desperate for some food so no doubt as soon as I get up tomorrow he'll have me tied to the hob to cook his rice ::)
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Thanks for all the replies: I guess I have unrealistic expectations that he'll never have "normal" variations again, as I'm so paranoid.
Abby - Paddy is looking amazing. His dry skin has completely cleared up, he's looking glossier and I weighed him last night. In the ten days he's been on the raw food, he's put on 700 grams. He'd been stuck at 10.9kg for a month, and was actually looking skinny - no covering on his ribs - while eating Chappie. He's grown half a centimetre higher and a centimetre longer too, in the same ten-day period.
I've mentioned on another thread that his frightful, sad, almost manic obsession with food seems to be waning: yes he's keen, and when we're eating he's looking hopeful, but he's calmer and isn't nudging, whining and pacing if he doesn't get food. Also - when I moved him onto raw, I went "cold turkey" (pardon the pun) on two fronts.
First - just did it - no migration over from one to the other. Second - because of the colitis, I'd still been feeding him three meals a day at nine months old. Vet thought smaller portions might help with digestion. Immediately cut out the midday feed - first full day, he was pacing round at lunchtime like "yeah funny - where's my food??" but has settled happily since then on two meals.
Funny thing is how surprisingly small the quantities you feed are. The books recommend two to three percent of bodyweight per day. So at 11.6kg, his new weight, that amounts to 350g per day. With raw food, that doesn't look a lot - but it seems to satisfy him totally.
Fingers crossed: I so want this to work for Paddy....
One final thing: I'm back to "skivvy's hands" - all the washing worksurfaces and hands because I'm still paranoid about raw food....Husband pointed out that some anti-bacterial wipes would do the worksurfaces, and a thorough hand wash/nail brush session at the utility room sink....Just need some handcream now! :005:
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Thanks for all the replies: I guess I have unrealistic expectations that he'll never have "normal" variations again, as I'm so paranoid.
Abby - Paddy is looking amazing. His dry skin has completely cleared up, he's looking glossier and I weighed him last night. In the ten days he's been on the raw food, he's put on 700 grams. He'd been stuck at 10.9kg for a month, and was actually looking skinny - no covering on his ribs - while eating Chappie. He's grown half a centimetre higher and a centimetre longer too, in the same ten-day period.
Funny thing is how surprisingly small the quantities you feed are. The books recommend two to three percent of bodyweight per day. So at 11.6kg, his new weight, that amounts to 350g per day. With raw food, that doesn't look a lot - but it seems to satisfy him totally.
One final thing: I'm back to "skivvy's hands" - all the washing worksurfaces and hands because I'm still paranoid about raw food....Husband pointed out that some anti-bacterial wipes would do the worksurfaces, and a thorough hand wash/nail brush session at the utility room sink....Just need some handcream now! :005:
Glad to hear it's working out well. I know what you mean about the quantities of food, they are really small portions, Bella has her main meal in the morning (she's 10kg so only on 200g a day!) so she has about 130g for breakfast then a meagre little 50g portion of mince in the evenings (the other 20g is to allow for treats ;)).
On the skivvy's hands, tell me about it - try being a potter as well as a raw feeder :lol: I'm forever putting handcream on but I reckon if someone tried to tell my age by my hands they'd be a decade out (the wrong direction!)... :005:
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On the skivvy's hands, tell me about it - try being a potter as well as a raw feeder :lol: I'm forever putting handcream on but I reckon if someone tried to tell my age by my hands they'd be a decade out (the wrong direction!)... :005:
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Best solution I've found is Atrixo handcream slathered on at night, topped off with lashings of Vaseline, then put a pair of cotton "household" gloves on: heat makes your hands absorb it all during the night.
Denise
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Hi .
Reading this with interest! Roxi is 8 months old and im scared to give her a cooked chicken wing never mind a raw one! Are you saying that I can give her a completely raw chicken wing and leave her to it???????? Roxi doesnt eat her food she wolfs it. What if she tries to eat it all in one go?? What about food poisoning??? It seems so odd to me to give a dog completely raw food but if people think its good for them I would like to give it a go.
More information please............
Thanks Judith and ROXi
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Hi .
Reading this with interest! Roxi is 8 months old and im scared to give her a cooked chicken wing never mind a raw one! Are you saying that I can give her a completely raw chicken wing and leave her to it???????? Roxi doesnt eat her food she wolfs it. What if she tries to eat it all in one go?? What about food poisoning??? It seems so odd to me to give a dog completely raw food but if people think its good for them I would like to give it a go.
More information please............
Thanks Judith and ROXi
Deinftely don't give cooked chicken wings - they mustn't have the cooked bones. Clive has had a few raw chicken wings and LOVES them - I bash them a bit with a rolling pin and he polishes them off very happily. So long as its fresh chicken and you bash it up, certainly to start with a bit, I'm sure Roxi will be fine - and very happy! Give it to her outside if you don't want chicken smeared all over the floor (eugh :P) ;)
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Hi .
Reading this with interest! Roxi is 8 months old and im scared to give her a cooked chicken wing never mind a raw one! Are you saying that I can give her a completely raw chicken wing and leave her to it???????? Roxi doesnt eat her food she wolfs it. What if she tries to eat it all in one go?? What about food poisoning??? It seems so odd to me to give a dog completely raw food but if people think its good for them I would like to give it a go.
More information please............
Thanks Judith and ROXi
Cooked bones are dangerous as they can splinter and the dog can choke. Raw is fine. It seems odd at first, but BARF (Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) is just that - it's biologically appropriate - ie. designed to mimic the kind of diet they'd have if they were wild and caught the food themselves. That's why it's so good for them and they enjoy it so much - meaty bones is what dogs were designed to eat. :D
Re. food poisoning - not a worry. Yes, humans would be ill eating raw chicken, but dogs have different digestive systems. They do after all eat poo and lick their own bums...their digestive systems are made of much sterner stuff than ours!
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I took Paddy to the vets on Saturday and they were stunned by the change in him - usual vet was called in to see him. I "admitted" that he's on raw food - they are really anti-raw, because of fears of campylo-bacter poisoning and fear of unbalanced nutrition. One of the vets has seen cases of this from raw food - which I already knew before I took the plunge. He was still whittling on, but I challenged him and said "look, I've tried everything conventional - food and drugs - which you've suggested, and none of it worked. He's been on raw food, which I'm making sure is balanced and healthy, for two weeks and he's transformed. Short gut, licks his bits, eats rubbish: how likely is the food poisoning?". Silence. The other vet chipped in and suggested that I use organic, free-range chicken when feeding raw chicken and otherwise, stick to the human-quality raw lamb, turkey and beef I've otherwise been feeding. And avoid chicken offal. Since I've still got two weeks' worth of frozen meals, including chicken, in the freezer, I'll think about this when I need to go shopping in two weeks' time.
On the bones front: Paddy was a guzzler and manic about food. His petsitter, an experienced Cocker owner, always said that it went beyond greed and into desperation - she thought it was about being malnourished in some way because of the colitis. When I gave him the raw chicken wings, he didnt' know what to do with them. I was hovering too much because I was concerned in case he wolfed them down - he didn't and still doesn't. Lies on the lawn chomping happy happy happily. And the food mania has gone: he's just a greedy, hopeful dog now who will snark a treat if it's offered but is so much calmer when we're eating around him.
Go for it is all I can say!! (And stock up on some tins of sardines for when you forget to thaw the food - duh!!!).
Denise
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Great to hear Denise - looks like we'll be going the same way. I'm doing my reading at the moment, and OH seems okay with it. Your experience has really encouraged us and I'm so pleased for gorgeous little Paddy :luv:.
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To be fair to them - most vets don't have the experiences of raw feeding that we raw feeders have seen..... so you can't really blame them for being so anti.... although, an open mind would be nice ;)
Very pleased to hear that Paddy is doing sooooo well - congratulations !!! :shades:
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On the bones front: Paddy was a guzzler and manic about food.
And the food mania has gone: he's just a greedy, hopeful dog now who will snark a treat if it's offered
Dill was like this - I often thought he was constantly hungry until I went to see Mark and we changed his diet. As you say still greedy - but normally greedy - if there is such a thing :lol: :lol:
is so much calmer when we're eating around him.
We have also noticed this too - on sunday night me and OH ate our first meal sat on the sofa since Dill arrived on 25th March :lol: He was interested but he wasn't a manic pain in the @rse :005: When we have tried to eat on the sofa before we have had to give up and go back to the table ::) But it is nice to know we can slob in style again :lol: :lol:
Glad your new regime seems to be working ;)
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I think I'm going to BARF. ph34r
I posted a while ago about the boys being funny at meal times - staring at each other and their dishes and seeming to guard their bowls from each other. A case of, 'I don't want it, but you're not having it either!' And Reuben seemed to be losing weight, after only just filling out. But if I gave them a chicken wing or carrot, they would happily eat whilst standing next to each other.
After about 4 weeks of this I've admitted defeat and bought some Natures Menu. (The coward's approach to BARF!) The change in meal times is amazing! They both dive in and wolf it down. Then they spend 10 minutes licking their bowls clean. And they don't guard from each other either! :D
So now I really need to research how to feed BARF using natural food as Natures Menu is costing me a small fortune! :o The packet said they needed 800 - 1000g a day, which is two blocks each! :o Does anyone know if that is right? Or is it my misunderstanding? :-\
But their new diet might explain why they were happy to potter about outside yesterday when we were eating, instead of sitting begging at our feet! ;)
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So now I really need to research how to feed BARF using natural food as Natures Menu is costing me a small fortune! :o The packet said they needed 800 - 1000g a day, which is two blocks each! :o Does anyone know if that is right? Or is it my misunderstanding? :-\
Thats a lot of food :o
I buy Prize Choice minced meat packs - and add my own veggies and bones - I intersperse these meals with chicken wings, raw rabbit portions (from the butchers £5 for three), raw fish and cheap cuts I get from the supermarket.
I work on approx meat quantities of 100-150g per 10kg body weight per day - so a 400g pack of Prize Choice mince (59p) feeds Molo for two days. I puree and freeze fruit and veg in bulk, and add 4 or 5 ice-cubes over the two meals. I add all the supplements (omega oils, garlic etc) to the veg mix, so I don't have to remember to add it to each meal ;)
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So now I really need to research how to feed BARF using natural food as Natures Menu is costing me a small fortune! :o The packet said they needed 800 - 1000g a day, which is two blocks each! :o Does anyone know if that is right? Or is it my misunderstanding? :-\
But their new diet might explain why they were happy to potter about outside yesterday when we were eating, instead of sitting begging at our feet! ;)
I was going to say the same as Rachel, I think that's waaaay too much food for them :o :o About 2% of their body weight is right as Alfie is 15.5kg and he's on about 400g of food per day.
Edited cos I got my figures slightly wrong ph34r
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Abby
Take another look at Tommo's thread from a couple of weeks ago as Claire & Petra, I think, posted really useful lists of what was fed over the course of a week.
The practical things I learned, apart from what to feed:
1. Clear out a drawer in your freezer before you bring the food home.
2. Buy a fresh roll/box of freezer bags for individual portions.
3. Work out what 3% of your dog's body weight is, as that is the guideline daily weight of food to feed (including treats), and have your scales to hand as you portion it all out - helps when you're nervous about "getting it right".
4. When you're ready to start portioning all the meat/offal/veg out, start by tearing off and opening up all the freezer bags so you can just "dole out" the portions directly into the bags - or turn them inside out and pick the meat up using the interior of the bag itself. Also tear off the little paper/metal ties too, so you're not washing hands constantly to tear one off and tie up the bag.
5. Start by doing the veg first. Obvious in some ways but I ended up scrubbing the chopping board half way through to cut up veg, to go in the blender, because there was blood and gunk on it.
6. Remember to leave some of it out for the first day's meal. I did it all on Friday afternoon, kept some chicken for Friday night's dinner, then froze everything else. Idiot. Had to thaw out Saturday's food a few hours later.
Denise
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I was going to say the same as Rachel, I think that's waaaay too much food for them :o :o
I would agree that it seems an enormous amount. It is certainly a huge dish full compared to the amount of dry food they used to have! :D
On the back of the Natures Menu blocks' packet it says for a puppy weighing between 10 and 20 kg they need 800 - 1000g a day. The 'maintainance' amount reduces to 400g when they are fully grown. Casper and Reuben are nearly 7 months old so I have been feeding them the puppy amount. Would you agree with that? :-\
I know I had read before (from Penel I think) about feeding half a block per meal, so I was a bit surprised/shocked by having to feed a whole one. But you can see why I need to source BARF naturally! :005:
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They both dive in and wolf it down. Then they spend 10 minutes licking their bowls clean. And they don't guard from each other either! :D
But their new diet might explain why they were happy to potter about outside yesterday when we were eating, instead of sitting begging at our feet! ;)
Blimey: given that they're getting three times the recommended quantities, they're probably so brossan they can't waddle over to " 'ave some" aggro!! :005: They must be in Cocker heaven...
Be prepared: 300g to 350g odd (about 2 to 3% for an 11kg/11.5kg dog) looks like tiny quantities - but they're eating nutrient dense foods, no fillers so won't be hungry.
Rhona - just noted your point that they're puppies - I'll have a look in the books I got to see what they say about that, because I just skipped over it as being irrelevant - Paddy's 10 months old this weekend.
Denise
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Thanks Denise. I'm going to make up a shopping list in the next few days and maybe give it a whirl at the weekend.
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I've just given Henry his very first raw chicken wing! He is currently lying outside on the grass trying to decide what to do with it! Usually he's dying to come back inside and peers longingly through the french windows, but not now! Now as soon as I look like I'm coming outside, he picks up his wing straight away as if to say 'there's NO way you're having this back'!
I've mashed up the bones with a rolling pin. Stupid question - will he eat the bones or just leave them? Could he choke?
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I've just given Henry his very first raw chicken wing! He is currently lying outside on the grass trying to decide what to do with it! Usually he's dying to come back inside and peers longingly through the french windows, but not now! Now as soon as I look like I'm coming outside, he picks up his wing straight away as if to say 'there's NO way you're having this back'!
I've mashed up the bones with a rolling pin. Stupid question - will he eat the bones or just leave them? Could he choke?
Henry should crunch up the bones with no problems, just don't listen to him do it if you're squeamish! :P :005:
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OMG! I'm now sitting watching him with a sense of panic! How pathetic! God, I don't know how you BARF guys do it - I'd be a quivering wreck! ;)
Will this count as his evening meal? Or should I still feed him as normal?
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Alfie is loving his BARF feeding and I think it's also proving that he's the most laid back dog ever, I gave him a chicken wing on Sunday to crunch on out in the garden and 5 minutes later he came trotting into the house with it and tried to jump onto my knee to enjoy it in comfort! :005:
He also had lamb ribs last week and when I reached down to pull them apart for him as he was having a bit of trouble he just lay there and started licking my hand and giving me cocker eyes :luv:
The only thing he's had which he took away from us quick smart was a whole salmon head and frankly I was only too glad that he wanted to keep that one to himself :P ph34r
All in all we love it, now that the first couple of weeks are behind us we're definite BARF converts here!
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Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but is it normal to see blood in the wing?! I've just popped out to check on progress and he doesn't seem to have actually eaten anything, but I can see a bit of blood...
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You get used to it - everyone's a quivering wreck to begin with! I'd say it counts as half his dinner, if he's fully grown. So give him a little dinner later if he seems hungry - or another wing. ;)
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Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but is it normal to see blood in the wing?! I've just popped out to check on progress and he doesn't seem to have actually eaten anything, but I can see a bit of blood...
Yes you sometimes see a bit. Nothing to worry about.
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I've just weighed my boys. Reuben is 13kg and Casper is 14.4kg and they will be 7 months old on Sunday.
So do I feed them as puppies still (hence the huge amount according to Natures Menu!) 0r not? :-\
They are still growing at the minute and Reuben is just beginning to fill out. Casper has always been solid! :005:
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I've just weighed my boys. Reuben is 13kg and Casper is 14.4kg and they will be 7 months old on Sunday.
So do I feed them as puppies still (hence the huge amount according to Natures Menu!) 0r not? :-\
They are still growing at the minute and Reuben is just beginning to fill out. Casper has always been solid! :005:
I moved Alfie onto adult food at 6 months and I think his weight is just about perfect, he's in great condition. I've given him NM a few times and I used one pack split over two meals per day, which I actually thought was a wee bit too much but tbh I couldn't be bothered faffing around having a tiny bit left in one pack overnight and having to open a new one in the morning anyway and figure it out from there etc. so I just used one per day.
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OKay, a few questions.
Clive is having them as his tea tonight (one down one to go). He has them a few times before but I watched him a bit more closely today. He did a lot of crunching and then seemed to swallow it whole. Does this sound okay? They don't last him long, that's for sure. Also, I left the skin on - should I?
The other thing is supplements - when you do BARF what do you add to the bones/offal/veg menu?
Figuring out my menus tonight (well, CLive's really) so I know what to buy :D
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OK - comments on my basic menu for Clive would be much appreciated.
350g a day (based on 2-3%).
weekly: 60% meaty bones, fish & eggs 15%, 10% offal & mince, fruit & veg (with supplements) 10%, treats 5%
Day 1 AM: Chicken wings PM: Fish, eggs & veg
Day 2 AM: Lamb ribs PM: Turkey mince & veg
Day 3 AM: Chicken wings PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Day 4 AM: Oxtail PM: Lamb ribs & veg
Day 5 AM: Chicekn wings PM: fish, eggs & veg
Day 6 AM: Lamb ribs PM: CHicken wings & veg
Day 7 AM: Oxtail PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Plus a couple of recreational bones a week
Does this look something like the right balance?
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OK - comments on my basic menu for Clive would be much appreciated.
350g a day (based on 2-3%).
weekly: 60% meaty bones, fish & eggs 15%, 10% offal & mince, fruit & veg (with supplements) 10%, treats 5%
Day 1 AM: Chicken wings PM: Fish, eggs & veg
Day 2 AM: Lamb ribs PM: Turkey mince & veg
Day 3 AM: Chicken wings PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Day 4 AM: Oxtail PM: Lamb ribs & veg
Day 5 AM: Chicekn wings PM: fish, eggs & veg
Day 6 AM: Lamb ribs PM: CHicken wings & veg
Day 7 AM: Oxtail PM: Eggs, offal & veg
Plus a couple of recreational bones a week
Does this look something like the right balance?
I'm interested in the experienced raw food people's opinions on this too. I'm not giving as many eggs (so far, two a week) as Abby's list - would be good to know what others do & why. Looks good to me overall though.
The only other things I'm adding are the slippery elm powder (for colitis - soothes the gut) and the "Keeper's Mix". The latter is a kelp and alfalfa powder with added psyllium husk which is a great source of fibre (good for humans with IBS too!). I chose this as it seemed to be the closest thing to the kelp stuff which dear old Kymythy talked about in her book on raw feeding. It's rich in vitamins and minerals so I thought that it would "cover all the bases". I mix it in with the blended veg or else with the mince when I'm feeding him mince.
One other thing: Pads has been drinking water like a lunatic since going onto BARF, whereas the books say they'll get more moisture from their food. How have you found it?
I'm still trying to get the balance right between the mince and the meaty bones: I gave him too many bones at one point and he definitely got a bit constipated, but then a couple of meals of mince and then sardines and he was right as rain.
Denise
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Those meals look great - probably more eggs than mine get - and more veg too - but you'll probably relax over time about that sort of thing !!! :005:
I dunno about Paddy drinking more - mine don't drink much..... keep an eye on that Denise...
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I should have put 'egg' really 'cos I only meant for one on each occasion (4ish over the week). As you say Penel, I'll relax over time and not be so regimented about it :D
Clive had 2 chicken wings and an egg last night (his first!) and loved it. Licked the patio clean afterwards :P
Another question: what do folks do when you take your dogs to visit other people's houses - we're going away for a couple of weekends soon. I suppose I could just have him on the burns again.
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I give Ruby about 5 eggs a week. The reason? They're her favourite! :luv: I give them with meals like mince of sardines where there is little or no bone in them, as egg shell serves the same purpose as bone - calcium-rich and poo-firming!
When I go to other people's houses, I take her meals out the freezer at home (they are all in pre-portioned by me into sandwich bags) put them in a big lunchbox with one of those frozen plastic gel block things you use in a cool box, and when I get there, I put the lunchbox in their fridge, and they can take one sandwich bag out each mealtime. If it's longer than 3 days, I'd put a few in their freezer once we get there.
Last time I visited my mum's, she just bought some chicken wings (she already had eggs, fruit, veggies and tinned sardines/tuna in anyway) and we made up her meals as we went along. It's actually easier than taking supplies of dog food - especially when you have to carry it on the train - as after all, they eat 'people' food on BARF so it's just the odd extra item that needs picking up at the supermarket.
Ruby doesn't drink more water either - less than she did whilst on dried food in fact.
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That looks like a pretty good menu to me. Here is what Bella gets - 10kg and fully grown:
Mon AM: 100g chicken (skinned by on the bone) plus veg pulp, PM: 50g beef mince
Tues AM: 150g breast of lamb, PM: cooked chicken or sausage as she's at agility so her meal is fed throughout the class as treats
Wed AM: 100g chicken plus veg, PM: 100g tripe and beef mix
Thurs AM: 150g breast of lamb, PM: 50g beef mince
Fri AM: 100g chicken plus veg, PM: 50g beef mince
Sat AM: tin of sardines and an egg, PM: spoonful of cottage cheese and 50g beef mince
Sun AM: 100g tripe/offal mix, PM: usually a bit of whatever roast we've had!
So she's usually on one egg a week, sometimes two, and two lots of tripe/offal, although the chicken usually comes with kidneys intact so she gets them as well now and then. For supplements I don’t do that much really, she either gets salmon oil or evening primrose oil most days, and keeper's mix when I remember it (probably once or twice a week).
I'm aiming for an overall amount of 1400g per week (2% of 10kg), which includes about 30g of treats per day - she's an active girl but puts weight on easily so we have to be quite careful with her. ;)
We tend to give her naturediet if we take her away overnight.
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I give raw eggs 3 times per week.
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We're going away for a week at the end of Sept, so I'll let you know how that goes :o am hoping to feed pilchards and a raw egg for brekkies, and chicken wings (or pork ribs in Lola's case) for dinner every night.... we'll be going to the supermarket for our own food, so can pick up all that there hopefully !
When we've been at my mum's and its doggy dinner time, I just take it with me in a plastic container - and feed them outside so no one gets offended by the crunching ;)
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Thanks for all the advice guys. Looks like I'll be starting fully this weekend!
Lucky Clive :D
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For the "recreational bones" - what do others feed - animal, joint and amount? I saw a beef bone at the butchers the other day and it looked nearly as big as Paddy so I was too diffident to ask about it ph34r.
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For the "recreational bones" - what do others feed - animal, joint and amount? I saw a beef bone at the butchers the other day and it looked nearly as big as Paddy so I was too diffident to ask about it ph34r.
yes, I know what you mean. I'm very new to the forum as well as raw feeding - only been on the new regime for Saffy for just under two weeks, but OH and I are stunned at the difference in her condition. Saff is a rescue dog who came to us with awful skin problems. Not looking forward to a lifetime of steroids, anti b's and lotions of this kind and another (I know they have their place) but just had to try this way of feeding to see if it could help her. Now she is lean, with a lovely shiny coat and no itching and scratching for well over a week now. It has made such a difference to her - and us for that matter. So, to get back to the point, I shop at small butchers as that's all we really have over here - I live in Gozo, Malta and there isn't the supermarket facility as in the UK. Having said that, our chicken and pork is home produced and really high quality and very economical to buy, but can't get some of the cuts mentioned here; for instance tripe is a no no. It's just that I can barely tell one cut of meat from another ph34r - though I'm pretty good with chickens now. well with most of their bits anyhow...seriously, I need pics of what stuff looks like.
Meanwhile thanks to everyone for all the help and advice on this subject - I've been lurking reading all the posts for ages......... ph34r
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Well, its a done deal :D As of tomorrow Clive will be a Barfer :005:
All packaged and ready to go - AHA just had to pop downstairs to get out tomorrows food from the freezer ::)
Clive has been a quiver at my feet all through the divvying up process, poor boy. :luv:
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Saff is a rescue dog who came to us with awful skin problems. Not looking forward to a lifetime of steroids, anti b's and lotions of this kind and another (I know they have their place) but just had to try this way of feeding to see if it could help her. Now she is lean, with a lovely shiny coat and no itching and scratching for well over a week now. It has made such a difference to her - and us for that matter.
What great news. It's nice to hear it's made such a difference to her. :D
Abby - bet Clive's looking forward to breakfast tomorrow! :lol: I portion Ruby's food up on Saturday mornings usually, and leave a bit out for her breakfast - she also does the quivering thing, seeing all that meat at once! She sees me put it all in the freezer and always looks hopeful when I open the freezer door for the rest of the day.
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Well, Abby, how is Clive doing on the BARF?
I don't know whether to ask my questions here or open a new thread (at risk of doing the BARF topic to death!!).
I have just given Buddy his first BARF meal (chickened out and went for Nature's Menu for now), and when I checked my emails just now I saw that I had been sent the Nature's Menu newsletter so I had a lovely, but confusing trawl through that.
Now I have just read that like with any other change of diet you should do it slowly. But I'm very confused :- I have also read that you should not mix cooked and raw food because of the different times for digestion etc. This is why I have, perhaps rashly, given Bud a whole raw meal ::)
So.......should I just carry on as planned (I was planning to half Barf, so Burns at breakfast, raw at supper time)? Or should I rein him in a bit by somehow doing it more gradually. And how??
Oh, I have so many more questions. I'll drip them in one by one. Think I'm either worrying too much or being a bit thick.
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You're worrying too much !
He'll be fine on a whole meal of raw food once a day :D
I have photos of breast of lamb bones - do you wanna see ?! fabulous to hear about Saff and the change in her skin on a raw diet - I hear this time and time again.... :D
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So.......should I just carry on as planned (I was planning to half Barf, so Burns at breakfast, raw at supper time)? Or should I rein him in a bit by somehow doing it more gradually. And how??
Personally, I would stick with your plan - I have inadvertantly fed raw and cooked in quick succession and the results are far worse than any dodgy tum we have had from changing food too quickly ;)
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Annette. I switched my pups from Arden Grange to Nature's Menu in one go. Meal times had become a real issue, but now they wolf their food down with no messing and spend ten minutes licking the bowls clean. And it had no adverse affect on their digestive system (if you know what I mean! ;) )
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Thanks a lot!
Found a source of Lamb ribs today, he's going to save me some tomorrow. BUT he's charging me £2-3 pounds for each stip. Does that sound about right (he did this by weighing a boneless piece and sort of guessing how much to add etc. It looks like I'm paying top price to me)
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Thanks a lot!
:)
Found a source of Lamb ribs today, he's going to save me some tomorrow. BUT he's charging me £2-3 pounds for each stip. Does that sound about right (he did this by weighing a boneless piece and sort of guessing how much to add etc. It looks like I'm paying top price to me)
How much :o :o Can you find another butcher ?? :huh:
I pay no more than £1.50 for a whole large carrier bag full of frozen meaty bones that include ribs, neck and a few recreational bones too ;) If I buy rabbits or wings, he often throws in the bones for free :)
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Well, Abby, how is Clive doing on the BARF?
Clive is just dandy on BARF. There is no doubt that he adores the new menu :005: I can report he definitely has much better 'motions' (that word always makes me laugh ph34r) - better probably than at most points throughout his time with us so far. He also has a noticeably glossier and more oiled up coat (it was a bit dry and dull before) and I can't see any of the dandruff type stuff he got on his back. He had pork ribs one day and took ages to eat them and they bunged him up a bit so I'm going to look round for lamb ribs instead (just couldn't get them the day I went shopping).
I can also report he doesn't like tomato (spat out all the little bits in his dinner today all over the floor ::)).
Seriously Annette, wejust switche dhim over one day (a bit like DennyK) and he has been fine so far. I have a load of Burns left but I'm only going to keep it for a little whie to make sure he settles in thelonger term on BARF and then get rid of it. I'd go for it with Buddy - I've found it easy so far, once I sorted the menu out, and the fact that Clive is feeling benefits so soon is really encouraging.
Defintely get another butchers though :o
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Hello Penel
...would love to see a pic of lamb breast, sorry I know I'm being thick but we don't get much lamb stuff here. One of our local butchers thought I meant chops ph34rand from then on it got increasingly difficult to describe what I thought I meant..............
I had thought to move Saffy over to raw slowly, but after a couple of days she was so over the moon when I even went near the freezer that I thought what the hell... I am still scared of the bones though, but that's me not her. Me and OH tend to hover close by when there's a pork fest with bones going on...the noise :o Have had no digestive probs with the move over either - me thinks Saff has a cast iron tummy......... :lol:
At the risk of repeating myself, Saffs skin has made quite a remarkable recovery; gone are the scaly bits,scurf, red patches, she doesn't have the inclination to scratch herself to pieces like she did either. Coat is glossy and she is leaner all round. It is working for us so far, so I feel vindicated in trying to improve her lot. Keeping a close eye on all of your posts just starting out on raw, it's great to hear and learn from those experienced as well.
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This is breast of lamb that a friend buys from her butcher - it still has the bones in it - she pays about £1 - £1.50 for this and it weighs about 2kg.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/breastoflamb.jpg
then these two pics are the same thing that I get free from our butcher - you can see he leaves a lot less meat on it ...
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/Lambribs2.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/Lambribs.jpg
this is a chicken carcass - ie a chicken minus its legs, wings, and breasts.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/penel/Chickencarcass.jpg
Annette - you could post on Britbarf and ask if there's any other butchers in your area - or I could post for you if you like.
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Annette, well done for taking the plunge!! We switched Dill to raw within a day, as he was not taking too well to Nature Diet. (We had a brief stop at home cooked first but that is another story)
Dill just one day had both breakfast and dinner barf (minced meat and veg for breakfast, bones for tea) and he loves it!!
In fact, had vets visit last week for annual check up and part of his vax, and vet commented on how great he looked :luv:
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we 'half barf' Max well maybe about 3/4 barf, with burns for some mornings and and always meat/bones in the evening it works for us ok, its also worth shopping around to find a decent butcher as i've paid a few pounds for something another butcher has given for free.
Max has been on barf since he was 4 months and loves it, he's been so healthy on it, i had never heard of it before joining col and like many people thought i only had a choice between bakers and pedigree chum! so glad we decided to go for it never looked back.
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If your butcher is ADDING to the cost of lamb for giving you bones in the meat, that's outrageous! Any joint with bones in should cost less per lb or per kg than the equivalent cut "bone free".
Penel's piccie of the her friend's breast of lamb reminded me - ask the butcher to cut the big bones at the top, as you can see in that picture. I didn't and spent an age with a bread knife (only thing that would work!) sawing through the breast bone. You're basically buying one side of the rib cage with a breast of lamb.
Also - on making the switch, I just did it - no ill effects and saved faffing about. Paddy had been on three meals a day, despite being 9 months old, because the vet thought smaller, more regular meals might help with his colitis, but I also just cut out lunch time meal at the same time. Pads was a bit confused on day one - "where's my nosh, lady?????" - but adapted within two days to two meals a day. Books do say feed one meal (Kymythy Schultze recommends evening feeding to give them the night to digest it without strenuous exercise). I feel mean doing that to Pads and he's happy on two meals per day.
Only other thing I'd raise from the recent posts - the Tom Wolfe and Kymythy Schultze books both advise caution when feeding raw pork. I can't remember why - I haven't tried it and decided I don't need to. What do the experienced BARF'ers think about pork.
Back to my recreational bones question - what can I buy that would be suitable for Pads to gnaw on for fun? Which animal, which joint? Any advice on asking butcher to cut it a certain way?
Denise
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Back to my recreational bones question - what can I buy that would be suitable for Pads to gnaw on for fun? Which animal, which joint? Any advice on asking butcher to cut it a certain way?
Denise
Ask you butcher for a beef kneecap. (Its at the bottom of a cut called "Thick Flank or Top Rump") This is a bone which will not splnter and will last for ages. Dogs love em. ;)
Only other thing I'd raise from the recent posts - the Tom Wolfe and Kymythy Schultze books both advise caution when feeding raw pork. I can't remember why - I haven't tried it and decided I don't need to. What do the experienced BARF'ers think about pork.
Denise
There have been a few discussions about feeding pork. Personally I intend to stay away from it, but some Barfers manage fine. Have a read of this thread, from about page 3. There is a bit of a discussion surrounding food.
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=20387.msg255191#msg255191
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Lola eats raw pork every day and has done for about 18 months now, it's one of the only meats she isn't allergic to.... some dogs do find it harder to digest though so you just have to try it and see... there used to be a tapeworm issue, but that isn't relevant these days.
For cutting up meaty bones - I have a wood chopper, it's basically a v small axe - it's heavier and more efficient than a cleaver (which is what most people use), so I can easily chop through those whole pieces of lamb breast bone :D
Mine have their non boney meal in the mornings, and their boney meal in the evenings. Just personal choice really, no particular reason - I can't really face meaty bones in the morning :005:
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I use a cleaver and a hammer for breast of lamb but the cleaver's normally enough on it's own (just keep those fingers well out of the way!).
I do the other way round to Penel, Bella gets RMB meals first thing and then a bit of mince in the evenings. I switched it this way because she was sometimes being a tiny bit sick in the middle of the night (always 9 hours after eating) if she had RMBs in the evening. If she has them in the morning then this doesn't happen, I do make sure she has a good couple of hours' rest after eating though, don't like the thought of her running around if she has sharp little crunched up bits of bone in her tum...
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'Netty fretty again!!!
Buddy had his Nature's menu stuff in his bowl in the kitchen last night and loved it. Kept going back to lick the bowl one more time.
Burns this morning and this evening I gave him 2 chicken wings and some pureed veg (about 4 ice cube sized portions). But because of the raw chicken issues, I put his bowl in the garden and let him have it there.
Now, over 2 hours later he is STILL asking us for his supper! He doesn't seem to understand that this was his supper, thinks it was just a treat.
He has always been a hungry dog, and we increased his Burns to stop this kind of behaviour. Even so, the last 30 minutes or so were far from relaxing for any of us as he paced around, jumped up in our faces etc etc.
He's a thin but long 13kg. I gave him 2 wings because they weighed about the right amount for one meal as I have calculated it. Did I give him enough veg? Is he hungry or just trying it on? Do you think he will do like Paddy and get used to it in a few days?
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Not sure how you calculate a mixed burns ad barf diet. I guess half and half weight-wise? Clive weighs less than Buddy (11.8kg) and for him 2 chicken wings is considered more of a snack than a full meal ::) Buit I do it by weight on 3 % of his body weight and if he seems to be really starving he might get a tiny bit more, but in these early days, not much.
It doesn't seem like much food does it? But I've checked and checked the weights, so I guess Clivey will just have to get used to mealtimes being quicker than normal :D
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Karin and Saff here again - sorry just catching up with where I last left off on this thread -
Penel - thanks very much for the pics - I am printing out those of the lamb breast and will give to my butcher ph34r yes, it may sound bizarre but it may deter him from climbing into the freezer and hauling out yet another peice of animal I am not familiar with.........I may wait for a time of day - I think I am beginning to get a 'mad englishwoman' reputation
For those interested, I am feeding meaty pork ribs - Saff loves them and I have had no undesirable effects so far. They do not last long with Saff, she munches away and they are gone, in a matter of minutes. Annette - I did find that in the first few days Saff wasn't really quite sure whether this was her meal or not, and did on a couple of occasions prowl around still looking for the usual. This has gradually worn off - she eats with gusto then after a short while just chills outs in her basket, usually asleep. I think thats when the food begins to make her feel that she has eaten! I give her a none boney meal am then boney one pm, that suits us and her I think - I'm not up to the crunching in the morning if truth be known ph34r. I find that I am not giving as much veg as I had intended, but more meaty stuff - expect time will tell as its early days yet. Am allways grateful for the advice on here though :DI
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He's a thin but long 13kg. I gave him 2 wings because they weighed about the right amount for one meal as I have calculated it. Did I give him enough veg? Is he hungry or just trying it on? Do you think he will do like Paddy and get used to it in a few days?
mine wouldn't eat veg on it's own like that - tbh I would just give Buddy the veg when you give him the Natures menu or mince. You can't really mix veg with chicken wings can you ?
I would probably give Buddy 3 wings as a meal.... he'll get used to them being a meal don't worry.
You worry too much ;)
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I would probably give Buddy 3 wings as a meal.... he'll get used to them being a meal don't worry.
I give Molo three wings for a meal - and as Penel says, I reserve his veggies for when he has mince or a tin of fish ;)
I do understand what you are going through though - I worried endlessly when I first BARF'd ph34r
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You can't really mix veg with chicken wings can you ?
I would probably give Buddy 3 wings as a meal.... he'll get used to them being a meal don't worry.
You worry too much ;)
Thanks, I know I worry a bit, but it's hard not to be thinking about it when your lovely cocker is right in your face!!! I wasn't worried so much about nutrition, but the fact that he didn't believe me that he had been fed :005:
I understand what you are saying about the veg. But there is veg in the Natures Menu I have bought. If he will eat it like that (and he will!) then can I give it with the wings to fill him up?
On the same topic, when we give sardines, how many should I give as a meal? I am thinking of serving them with an egg on the side :005:
Also, in oil or tomato sauce? Does it matter? (Asda do very cheap ones in sauce - not that they are expensive anyway, but I like to save ££££ where I can ;)
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I give them in tomato sauce, and I'd give him a whole can for one meal.... or if you have a cat, give the cat a bit too cos a whole can might be a weeee bit much !
You can give the veg with the wings if you like - but I think it's probably unnecessary. Is he getting used to them being a meal now ?
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Hasn't had wings since. Will be doing tomorrow evening so we will see then!
Are you serious about one can of sardines being too much? I'm getting very confused by amounts. And I think I am going to have to come clean and reveal my stupidity tomorrow when I have time to list all I'm doing here.
I was thinking 2 cans ph34r. These are only 84g cans, are you talking about bigger ones? Doh, I think I'm too stupid for all this!
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Annette, I too feed the small cans (the flat oblong type cans) and 1 can always looks like nothing...
So if it is too much, then oops.....
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Annette, I too feed the small cans (the flat oblong type cans) and 1 can always looks like nothing...
So if it is too much, then oops.....
So, Petra, do you feed one or two cans?
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I only feed one.... but Dill always looks for more, so I tend to add an egg, or some live yoghurt and oats...
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Bella gets one of the flat tins of sardines but one of the fish in the tin gets divided between the cats, so it's about 3 or 4 sardines for Bella and half each for the cats. :D And she gets them in tomato sauce, it's one of her fave meals, she always goes and pleasure rolls on the doormat after her sunday morning sardines! :luv:
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We're going away for a week at the end of Sept, so I'll let you know how that goes :o am hoping to feed pilchards and a raw egg for brekkies, and chicken wings (or pork ribs in Lola's case) for dinner every night.... we'll be going to the supermarket for our own food, so can pick up all that there hopefully !
When we've been at my mum's and its doggy dinner time, I just take it with me in a plastic container - and feed them outside so no one gets offended by the crunching ;)
i trust mrs (as you're going to cornwall) you will be finding the local fish & farmers markets for your supplies?
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I guess Buddy is a bit bigger than my little girlies so yeah a whole can - but no, not two cans ;) maybe as Claire says, an egg on top would just finish off the meal nicely :005:
lol we'll have to see about the dogs' food in Cornwall, depends what we can find on the day we arrive !
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Bella gets one of the flat tins of sardines but one of the fish in the tin gets divided between the cats, so it's about 3 or 4 sardines for Bella and half each for the cats.
Gosh. I never knew sardines could become such a talking point! ;)
But - I bought sardines yesterday (forgot to get food out the freezer the night before! ::) ). It was a 125g tin and it only had two sardines in it! :o
That surely can't be a whole meal???? :huh:
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Only two sardines ? doesn't sound right to me - were they big sardines ?!
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Back to my recreational bones question - what can I buy that would be suitable for Pads to gnaw on for fun? Which animal, which joint? Any advice on asking butcher to cut it a certain way?
Denise
Ask you butcher for a beef kneecap. (Its at the bottom of a cut called "Thick Flank or Top Rump") This is a bone which will not splnter and will last for ages. Dogs love em. ;)
I have been to the butchers today and bought Deibbley a kneecap. He thinks its great. I took some pics so you know what it looks like...quite a bargain at 10p
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/densil75/Dibbley%2012%20weeks/th_DSC00485.jpg) (http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/densil75/Dibbley%2012%20weeks/DSC00485.jpg)
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/densil75/Dibbley%2012%20weeks/th_DSC00484.jpg) (http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/densil75/Dibbley%2012%20weeks/DSC00484.jpg)
It will last him for weeks :005: :005:
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Only two sardines ? doesn't sound right to me - were they big sardines ?!
I get mine from tesco's - they do the cans in two sizes - the smallest is 155 g's and has 2 or 3 sardines in it - that is a meal for Daisy - but she is on a diet ph34r the other size is 215 g's and has 4 sardines in - that used to be a meal for Daisy before she was on a diet ;)
While we're on the subject of amounts. You put a pic of chicken carcass Penel, how much of that would you give Tilly as a meal?
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Only two sardines ? doesn't sound right to me - were they big sardines ?!
Not particularly. :-\ They didn't even cover the bottom of the dish anyway.
they do the cans in two sizes - the smallest is 155 g's and has 2 or 3 sardines in it - that is a meal for Daisy - but she is on a diet ph34r the other size is 215 g's and has 4 sardines in - that used to be a meal for Daisy before she was on a diet ;)
Thanks Sarah. I think I'll have to hunt out the big tins. :D
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Bella gets one of the flat tins of sardines but one of the fish in the tin gets divided between the cats, so it's about 3 or 4 sardines for Bella and half each for the cats.
Gosh. I never knew sardines could become such a talking point! ;)
But - I bought sardines yesterday (forgot to get food out the freezer the night before! ::) ). It was a 125g tin and it only had two sardines in it! :o
That surely can't be a whole meal???? :huh:
:rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1: I was going to say this but I am feeling even more stupid than usual just now so had decided to buy a different brand and do some silent research :005: :005:
My cans only have two sardines in them too. They are about the length of the tin, and about 1 inch across. Would it help if I weighed them? :005:
This is doing my head in. So much so that poor Buddy is being denied his sardine and egg supper because I can't tolerate an evening with hungry Bud in my face.
Can one of the experienced BARFers come and live with me for a week before I run, panicking, back to kibble? :005: (joke. I'm persevering on our one month trial. Now doing full BARF as I wondered whether we could really expect to see all the benefits if we continued to feed kibble)
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My cans only have two sardines in them too. They are about the length of the tin, and about 1 inch across. Would it help if I weighed them? :005:
That is what mine were like. I assumed they weighed 125g as that is what it said on the tin! :lol:
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Just to muddy the waters:
I work to 100 -150 g of meat per day per 10 Kg of dog - Molo has about 100g of meat per meal (2 meals a day); so a 125g small tin of sardines would be about right for one meal, wouldn't it??
Now doing full BARF as I wondered whether we could really expect to see all the benefits if we continued to feed kibble
I have found it is incremental - if Molo is full BARF'd he is at his peak with no dodgy poos, and clear eyes ;) If he is half-and-halfed, he has the odd softer poo and occasional eye-goo. when he spends a few days in kennels, and is on 100% kibble, he has softer poo's and weepy eyes - it takes about a week of BARFing for him to detox ;)
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My cans only have two sardines in them too. They are about the length of the tin, and about 1 inch across. Would it help if I weighed them? :005:
That is what mine were like. I assumed they weighed 125g as that is what it said on the tin! :lol:
Annette the srdine-bore here.......
my cans say 120g one side, then 84g drained weight on the other. So maybe 3 sardines then??????
I know it seems like I'm fussing. But as a pretty much overweight lady I have always been pleased that our dog, at least, tends to be lean rather than fat and I don't want to turn him into an un-fit fatty now. On the other hand, he tolerates hunger very badly. Since we changed to three chicken wings for dinner he has been better, but I am giving about 190g food per meal, roughly 170g meat and 20g veg. He is thrilled with those amounts, but it's too early to tell whether it is putting too much weight on him.
He's 13kg now, but being 1/4 working type he is much longer than the average show type cocker, and is very lean. You can't see his ribs, but you can see defined muscle groups in his legs.
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Since we changed to three chicken wings for dinner he has been better, but I am giving about 190g food per meal, roughly 170g meat and 20g veg.
Does that include bone weight? I aim to give Molo approx 200g of meat per day - so if he has a mince meal then it is 100g of meat plus veg for a meal, if he has meat "on the bone" (rabbit or chicken wings) then I increase the weight to account for the bones ;)
Just to add to the confusion - I've always been aware that as tinned sardines are cooked, then they aren't technically BARF ph34r ph34r
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Since we changed to three chicken wings for dinner he has been better, but I am giving about 190g food per meal, roughly 170g meat and 20g veg.
Does that include bone weight? I aim to give Molo approx 200g of meat per day - so if he has a mince meal then it is 100g of meat plus veg for a meal, if he has meat "on the bone" (rabbit or chicken wings) then I increase the weight to account for the bones ;)
Just to add to the confusion - I've always been aware that as tinned sardines are cooked, then they aren't technically BARF ph34r ph34r
I had figured that out too, but am willing to give them, as everyone else seems to.
I'm not weighing the wings, just giving three now. So the 170g would be meat or Natures Menu (with minced bone in).
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OK. Really going to throw a spanner in the works now! ph34r
According to "The BARF Diet" by Dr. Ian Billinghurst an adult dog weighing between 10 and 25kg should have 600 - 1100gms a day. So if 60% should be meat and bones, then they should have between 360 and 660gms a day. Which would then be equal to about 180 - 330gms per meal. :-\
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OK. Really going to throw a spanner in the works now! ph34r
According to "The BARF Diet" by Dr. Ian Billinghurst an adult dog weighing between 10 and 25kg should have 600 - 1100gms a day. So if 60% should be meat and bones, then they should have between 360 and 660gms a day. Which would then be equal to about 180 - 330gms per meal. :-\
Molo would be a barrel on that amount!!
I know dogs are all different and its only a guide, but that is a huge different from the guidance on The UK BARF Club website ph34r
What % of bone and veg is there in Natures Menu?
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right for what its worth I think you are all being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too anal about this ph34r :005: :005:
Your dogs stomach is roughly the size of your fist, so feed about that amount per meal. If your dog starts to put on weight - feed less. If your dog starts to get a bit skinny - feed more.
simple ;)
Yes you need to be sensible about getting the balance right - but you really dont need to lose so much sleep over it. Bet you dont worry about your own diets so much ;) :lol:
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right for what its worth I think you are all being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too anal about this ph34r :005: :005:
Your dogs stomach is roughly the size of your fist, so feed about that amount per meal. If your dog starts to put on weight - feed less. If your dog starts to get a bit skinny - feed more.
simple ;)
Yes you need to be sensible about getting the balance right - but you really dont need to lose so much sleep over it. Bet you dont worry about your own diets so much ;) :lol:
Thanks!
Was beginning to suspect this!
Still, what I most worry about is putting up with Buddy when he's hungry. He really is unbearable. But nor do I want to reward his pestering by giving more food when he asks for it after his meal times!
Steve says to ask.......what size is your fist....exactly? :rofl1:
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Steve says to ask.......what size is your fist....exactly? :rofl1:
And is that my fist or OH's? His hands are much bigger than mine! ;)
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Its easy to get paranoid though - I am acutely aware that any mistakes I make now with the balance of his diet may not be evident until he gets older and maybe developed conditions due to long term poor nutrional balance :huh:
(This is one of the reasons I still feed a good quality complete food occasionally - hopefully, he will absorb any missing nutrients from this ph34r)
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Still, what I most worry about is putting up with Buddy when he's hungry. He really is unbearable. But nor do I want to reward his pestering by giving more food when he asks for it after his meal times!
Give him a raw carrot if he pesters - if he's hungry he'll it, if he's not he wont ;) ;)
Steve says to ask.......what size is your fist....exactly? :rofl1:
Well I reckon closed tightly its about 7.4 cm wide, but not so tightly closed its about 7.9 or could be 8.1 cm's ...........................................................................
:rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1:
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Still, what I most worry about is putting up with Buddy when he's hungry. He really is unbearable. But nor do I want to reward his pestering by giving more food when he asks for it after his meal times!
Give him a raw carrot if he pesters - if he's hungry he'll it, if he's not he wont ;) ;)
Steve says to ask.......what size is your fist....exactly? :rofl1:
Well I reckon closed tightly its about 7.4 cm wide, but not so tightly closed its about 7.9 or could be 8.1 cm's ...........................................................................
:rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1:
So how many sardines do you think that would be then? :rofl1:
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What % of bone and veg is there in Natures Menu?
It doesn't tell you that on the packet. :-\
It breaks it down into: protein 11.4%; oil 13.1%; ash 2.4%; fibre 0.3% and they 'retain up to 5% of bone'.
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right for what its worth I think you are all being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too anal about this ph34r :005: :005:
blimey me too :o take a chill pill folks (but make sure you weigh it first ;)) :lol:
erm that kneecap would last my dogs about half an hour :lol:
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Dibbley says he's trying his best. (been at it now since T-time) He smells like a butchers shop and keeps coming back in the house and rubbing his chin along the floor. (you know, like when they find a dead seagul)
He says "never mind the fist size thing....that bone was as big as my head" :005:
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Really bad news at the moment, guys. :'( :'(
Since Thursday last week, I've started to see signs of the colitis coming back. Started with Paddy's eyes beginning to weep eye gunk again throughout the day. During Saturday, his poos went softer and shinier. During Sunday - really soft. He also got really growly with the pet sitter yesterday when she picked him up - I think she surprised him and gripped him round the waist which seems to be tender....
I'm persevering as he still looks loads better on BARF than on any other food he's eaten. I also want to see what happens when he has chance to settle down into his usual routine again. Last week, his pet sitter was on holiday so my mum kindly came over to our house to stay for the week. She spoils him rotten - including loads of JWB "Mini Jack" treats - and he got noticeably fatter. My sister and her two Paddy-obsessed boys (aged 6 and 10) were also there and mithering the bejasus out of Paddy on Saturday and Sunday, whenever my back was turned. So all in all, I can see that, since he's definitely a dog who doesn't cope well with stress, it's been a really "out of kilter" week.
I have an appointment at the vets for Saturday, because his muzzle is covered in histiocytoma, and I'm going to get the referral to the homeopathic vet sorted out then, unless Pads has come on in leaps and bounds by then on the tum front....
Between now and the vet on Saturday, does anyone have any suggestions? I'm still giving the Slippery Elm (Dorwest's "Tree Barks") each day. Should I add Aloe Vera juice too? Any foods to avoid? Scale up or scale back on blended veg?
Oh, boo hoo. I was so upset at the weekend: by Sunday evening when Paddy and I were alone (OH is in the US, back today), we both just curled up together - I let him sleep with me, and he just didn't stir for eight hours till the alarm went off...My poor little boy. If I could wave a magic wand and take on the colitis myself and cure him, I'd honestly do it.... :'( :'( :'(
Denise
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Oh Denise, I'm so sorry to hear about poor Paddy.
Hopefully it is all the extra treats and stress which has made it all so much worse again. I do hope that he soon settles.
Poor lad with the hystiocytome too.
((HUGS)) (and apologies for all of us hijacking your thread.) ;)
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Annette
Thanks so much - and the thread hasn't been hijacked, it's been hugely interesting - I had the same "Is that it????" debate about the sardines - as did Paddy who got the hump big time. It was only when I read on here that there's 40g weight added to the 125g tins from the sauce that I realised I'd been short-changing him!
Out of interest - does anyone feed raw fish and if so, what? I know that salmon is a no-no (although before I realised this, I'd given him smoked salmon as a treat - hope the smoking kills the parasite!) and he really ran a mile from rainbow trout fillet that I got cheap at Tesco. Any other suggestions? Do any BARF'ers feed cooked fish at all??
Denise
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Oh I'm so sorry to hear Paddy's poorly again. I hope he gets better soon and it does clear up quickly. :luv:
Re. the fish question, I've probably mentioned before that Ruby's not a fan of raw fish so it's either sardines or tinned tuna, both of which she loves.
Incidentally, I fed Ruby sardines this morning and I noticed that there were only 2 in the tin...having said that, she always gets them with 2 raw eggs and some tomato.
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Saffy could tolerate raw fish no problem - but Tilly can't and tbh I haven't bothered trying it with the others - they just get pilchards or sardines from a tin about once a week.
Don't worry about smoked salmon I am sure if people eat it, it ain't gonna harm your dog.
Get Paddy to see Mark as soon as you can - Dill is like a different dog since Mark has sorted him out. Stress is a major cause of colitis. I would keep on with the slippery elm powder but don't too much Aloe vera - it can cause diarrhoea as well as helping colitis. Don't give him any biscuits - just stick to a very simple raw diet ...
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I have just laughed out loud at SarahP and Penel! :005: ph34r :lol:
Gawd ladies............. I was getting worried, I thought I was a terrible BARFER for not weighing everything when I saw all the talk of weight measurements of meat and bones, thanks for putting my mind at rest!!! I totally agree if your dog is getting skinny feed more, if they are turning into a barrel feed less..........so much less stressful to work that way than weighing everything out!
I do feed some raw fish, but I also feed cooked fish too, sardines, pilchards and the occasional tin of tuna.
Sorry to hear Paddy is unwell again, poor little sausage. As Penel mentioned some dogs seem to tolerate things others can't and in random ways for example Nance can eat minced chicken NO PROBLEM, but give it to Milo and expect a runny bott where as he can eat chicken wings with no ill effects at all...........I guess what I'm saying is that it could be one thing that has triggered off Paddys tum again as opposed to the whole diet.
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poor Paddy - I hope he's soon feeling better.
On the weight thing, I used to weigh stuff out religiously for Bella but after a while you get to know what 150g of chicken or whatever looks like so for the last couple of months I haven't weighed anything. She was very prone to weight gain when she was on kibble but has been fine on the raw diet - she has actually put on half a kilo since March but that seems to be muscle, I think she's building it up from the agility classes, she's definitely got much more muscly shoulders these days. But she feels nice and firm, you can feel her ribs and she's got a good little waist and sometimes I think that's a better way to gauge it than weight alone.
I've never bothered worrying about the weight of sardines, she only gets them once or twice a week at the most and I just give an amount that looks similar to the amount she'd get if it was chicken or whatever.
It is really hard at the start as you worry and worry but it does get easier, and once you start to relax about it you wonder what you were so panicky about at the start! :lol:
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It is really hard at the start as you worry and worry but it does get easier, and once you start to relax about it you wonder what you were so panicky about at the start! :lol:
I think that may be the thing you know. Both my pooches came to me weaned on a BARF diet so I have done it from the beginning, never weighing anything and using the size of the bowl, or my fist ( hee hee!) to keep meal sizes appropriate.
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Sorry to hear that Paddy is not well again :'(
Get Paddy to see Mark as soon as you can - Dill is like a different dog since Mark has sorted him out.
Please please please please get Paddy to Mark asap ;) I wish I could show the difference in Dilbert - people who know him and see him regularly are gob-smacked at how he has changed. His coat is shiney, he has put on weight, he's only ever sick if he's scavenged something from the park ::) we rarely have runny bum, he is happy, contented and full of life - just how a spaniel should be and I swear its all thanks to Mark ;) So in the words of Wallace and Grommit "stop prevaricating around the bush" :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have just laughed out loud at SarahP and Penel! :005: ph34r :lol:
Really ??!!!???!!! Cant imagine why :005: :005:
I guess what I'm saying is that it could be one thing that has triggered off Paddys tum again as opposed to the whole diet.
Thats VERY true. when I went to see Mark I discovered that I'd been goiong along the right-ish lines but just not quite so although I was seeing some tiny improvements in Dill it wasn't great. By talking to me and asking loads of questions Mark was able to really fine-tune Dills diet and medication and as I say we haven't looked back :D :D
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Sorry to hear that Paddy is not well again :'(
Get Paddy to see Mark as soon as you can - Dill is like a different dog since Mark has sorted him out.
Please please please please get Paddy to Mark asap ;) I wish I could show the difference in Dilbert - people who know him and see him regularly are gob-smacked at how he has changed. His coat is shiney, he has put on weight, he's only ever sick if he's scavenged something from the park ::) we rarely have runny bum, he is happy, contented and full of life - just how a spaniel should be and I swear its all thanks to Mark ;) So in the words of Wallace and Grommit "stop prevaricating around the bush" :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have just laughed out loud at SarahP and Penel! :005: ph34r :lol:
Really ??!!!???!!! Cant imagine why :005: :005:
I guess what I'm saying is that it could be one thing that has triggered off Paddys tum again as opposed to the whole diet.
Thats VERY true. when I went to see Mark I discovered that I'd been goiong along the right-ish lines but just not quite so although I was seeing some tiny improvements in Dill it wasn't great. By talking to me and asking loads of questions Mark was able to really fine-tune Dills diet and medication and as I say we haven't looked back :D :D
denny - i have seen dillbert and the change in him since sarahp took him to mark is astonishing. he is one changed and happy dog.
please please give him a call
sarah had to be really strict with his diet and homeopathic rem's after seeing mark (and i must admit i was sceptical...) but it is incredible - temperament, skin, digestion EVERYTHING ;)
it is so worth considering as paddy has taken this turn for the worse.
as lisa (silkstocking) says, some dogs can tolerate some things but not all - jarvis is terrible on chicken wings and raw chicken carcasses (runny bot) but on chicken mince he's fine, and he's ok on lamb and pork.
mark will be able to check his tolerances and sort him out - i'm convinced ;)
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erm that kneecap would last my dogs about half an hour :lol:
Dibbley is still chewing. Penel, you will have to try and get a kneecap and take the half hour challenge. (My rotty could make one last a week!) ;) ;)
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Booked to see Mark at noon next Monday!
The really odd thing about Paddy's "turn for the worse" is that he still looks amazing - glossy, silky coat - except for the runny eyes. However, his energy levels have plummeted - he slept ten hours solidly the other night and has been asleep all evening after his walk unless I disturb him to play or do a little training.
Anyway, he's on plain raw till Monday!
Denise
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Oh Denise, so sorry I missed this yesterday...
I am so sorry Paddy has had a set back... For what it is worth it does seem to be caused by the hectic week and treats, rather than Barf as a whole...
Good luck on Monday, please keep us posted!!
Hugs to both you and Paddy, and a doggy lick from Dill
xx
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Booked to see Mark at noon next Monday!
yipee well done. Give Mark my regards ;) he's probably sick of me :005:
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OK I know I'm being way too anal about it all but.... :embarassed:
I've bought some mince and I've whizzed up the veg. Now what ratio should I mix it to? 100g of mince to ??g veg. :-\
Please be gentle with me - it is my first time. ph34r
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Denny - so sorry that little Pads is suffering agiain, but I agree with the others that it sounds like a blip due to stress and too much 'extras'. I really hope that Mark can help you out and that he stabilises again.
Your example in trying this has really helped us out - Clive seems to be doing really well so far (still early days) and absolutely loves his food.
I asked the butchers yuesterday for some bones and he pulled one that was bigger than me! Luckily, they sawed it up and Clive spent the night sucking out the marrowbone from one small bit. The whole thing will last him for weeks :005:
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OK I know I'm being way too anal about it all but.... :embarassed:
I've bought some mince and I've whizzed up the veg. Now what ratio should I mix it to? 100g of mince to ??g veg. :-\
Please be gentle with me - it is my first time. ph34r
a dollop ? :005:
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OK I know I'm being way too anal about it all but.... :embarassed:
I've bought some mince and I've whizzed up the veg. Now what ratio should I mix it to? 100g of mince to ??g veg. :-\
Please be gentle with me - it is my first time. ph34r
a dollop ? :005:
Is that heaped or level? :D
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OK I know I'm being way too anal about it all but.... :embarassed:
I've bought some mince and I've whizzed up the veg. Now what ratio should I mix it to? 100g of mince to ??g veg. :-\
Please be gentle with me - it is my first time. ph34r
a dollop ? :005:
Is that heaped or level? :D
that depends on how steady your hands are :005:
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that depends on how steady your hands are :005:
Well that would depend on how many glasses of wine I'd had! ;)
That large mixing bowl of veggies that I've whizzed up will last me for ages at a dollop a go. :D
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that depends on how steady your hands are :005:
Well that would depend on how many glasses of wine I'd had! ;)
That large mixing bowl of veggies that I've whizzed up will last me for ages at a dollop a go. :D
Its worth freezing it if you can, the nutrients only last 2 or three days maximum once "whizzed", so I tend to freeze all mine into ice cube trays as soon possible and then take out cubes as I need them ;)
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Its worth freezing it if you can, the nutrients only last 2 or three days maximum once "whizzed", so I tend to freeze all mine into ice cube trays as soon possible and then take out cubes as I need them ;)
Yep! That is my job for this morning after I've walked the dogs and before I pick daughter up from gym. I've bought 8kg of mince from PAH and 200 freezer bags, so now I'm good to go! :D
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Oh Rhona, you really know how to enjoy yourself :005: In fact that has motivated me too - I might just do the same thing!
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Oh Rhona, you really know how to enjoy yourself :005:
Well I wouldn't go that far. Although it has meant I got to use all my birthday presents! :D (Food processor, weighing scales and BARF books. ph34r )
And I have discovered what the size of a dollop depends upon - how bored you are! :005:
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I went to visit my sister yesterday. She has 2 border collies (one old guy and one 6 months old) They live outside, but come in to be fed. The old guy has always been on commercial dog food but the pup has been BARF. She feeds him mainly breast of lamb and beef kneecaps. She doesnt cut the breast up, just throws him a bag full and lets him sort it out himself. He has a lovely clean mouth and his teeth are white. He has a shiny coat and bright eyes. It seems to be working for him and theres none of the complex mathematics involved. I would say go for BARF just don't get too hung up on exact measurments.
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Quick question. I bought the mince with 5% bone from PAH, but it is actually dearer than the mince in the butchers. So do they need the mince with bone in if they are having bone meals every day any way? :-\
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Probably not no. :D
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Quick question. I bought the mince with 5% bone from PAH, but it is actually dearer than the mince in the butchers. So do they need the mince with bone in if they are having bone meals every day any way? :-\
Ooo, no - that works out really expensive ;) I buy Forthglade frozen mince meat, 454g for 54p (no VAT) ;) I used to buy Prize Choice frozen mince, which was a similar price - the pre-prepared mince/veg/bone frozen mixes are really expensive in comparison ::)
I then buy a huge bag of RMB from the butcher for £1 :D
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Sod it. Mark is ill and cancelled....he's now away for a couple of weeks, then I'm away for a couple of weeks....
Good news is, Pads is definitely stable, but still not 100% - breath has improved, bowel has got better, eyes still yuk.
Went to the butchers and they offered "chicken carcases for a pound". I said - great. Yeah, well when I got home with bags of meat (ours and Paddy's), I discovered about thirty carcases, all frozen together in one great lump. Sadly I've only got one drawer of a four-drawer freezer available for Paddy's food, so they all had to go in the bin. Boo hiss. Asked for Beef Kneecap. I think they gave me giraffe - about three feet long, cut into lumps. Still, Paddy enjoyed the short one, although it's bigger than his skull-doddy. butchers think I'm a loon, so to compensate, I keep on buying sirloin steak and lots of posh sausages. We're going to end up with the healthiest dog, the deadest owners due to saturated fat intake... ph34r
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Asked for Beef Kneecap. I think they gave me giraffe - about three feet long, cut into lumps. Still, Paddy enjoyed the short one, although it's bigger than his skull-doddy. ... ph34r
I think the Butcher gave you a shin, or thigh bone. When I asked for a kneecap they tried to give me a shin bone. I understand why this happens...obviously the top end of the shin bone is at the knee and the bottom end of the thigh bone is at the knee. The kneecap is the bit that sits over the point where the 2 join. Its a good bone for dogs cos its got loads of connective tissue attached, loads of meaty bits and will serve as a meal in its own right. The bone itself, (although only the size of half a tennis ball) is really hard and once the dogs have chewed all the meat off the bone cleans the teet, and lasts for ages. Have a close look at the pics I posted earlier
Next time you're in the butchers ask again. If you get blank looks tell them its the small round bone which is at the bottom of the Thick Flank. (Also known as Top Rump) ;) ;)
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Oh good. :D Rachel - I bought the Prize Choice mince and bone without any veg. It was £3.35 for 2kg. Where do you buy Forthglade from?
I found a great butcher. I was driving past and there was a sign outside advertising free bones. I think he gave me the whole cow's skeleton! :o I bought 1kg of lamb ribs for 30p.
This morning I went and paid £1.20 for an ox's heart, so he gave me 2kg of lamb ribs for free. Along with a huge bag of 'scraps' that I can mince up (once I've removed the fatty bits!) He's going to order me in trays of organic chicken wings too for less than Sainsburys' economy ones. :D
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Oh good. :D Rachel - I bought the Prize Choice mince and bone without any veg. It was £3.35 for 2kg. Where do you buy Forthglade from?
I found a great butcher. I was driving past and there was a sign outside advertising free bones. I think he gave me the whole cow's skeleton! :o I bought 1kg of lamb ribs for 30p.
This morning I went and paid £1.20 for an ox's heart, so he gave me 2kg of lamb ribs for free. Along with a huge bag of 'scraps' that I can mince up (once I've removed the fatty bits!) He's going to order me in trays of organic chicken wings too for less than Sainsburys' economy ones. :D
Wow that's fab! I must shop around and find a better butcher for Alfie's BARF extras, I think I'm being ripped off ::) >:( ::)
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Oh good. :D Rachel - I bought the Prize Choice mince and bone without any veg. It was £3.35 for 2kg. Where do you buy Forthglade from?
Our local independant pet store has just changed hands and started stocking Forthglade frozen raw mince - I prefer to shop there than Jolleys for the Prize Choice and it's cheaper, too :)
I hadn't realised the 2kg bags of Prize Choice contain bone, tbh - I buy mince in small 400g portions, as we only have small freezer, so they fit in better ph34r
I am on a mission for a kneecap now, we've never had one of those ph34r
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When I went into my local butcher to get some bones for Coco, I asked them if they had any lamb bones. They said they only keep beef bones as lamb bones are prone to splinter and are therefore no good for dogs. Has anyone else found this? Bearing in mind that some people say beef bones are hard and wear the teeth down, I thought I would try some lamb but now can't get any. Any advice gratefully received. ;)
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Yep, that's the problem I have been having.
Still haven't managed to find any that don't cost as much as my own Sunday dinner!
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When I went into my local butcher to get some bones for Coco, I asked them if they had any lamb bones. They said they only keep beef bones as lamb bones are prone to splinter and are therefore no good for dogs. Has anyone else found this? Bearing in mind that some people say beef bones are hard and wear the teeth down, I thought I would try some lamb but now can't get any. Any advice gratefully received. ;)
Could you ask them if they would keep some for you? :-\ The butcher I go to is saving lamb ribs and hearts for me throughout the week for me to collect on Fridays. I was lucky the first time I went as he had some in and sold me 1kg of ribs for 30p. The second time he didn't have any to begin with, but by the time we'd finished talking he had 2kg that he gave me free.
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I get tripe in bulk from Landywoods - 26 p a pound - two pounds feeds five of em for breakfast :D
Annette - did you post on Britbarf and ask for friendly butchers in your area ?
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I get tripe in bulk from Landywoods - 26 p a pound - two pounds feeds five of em for breakfast :D
Penel - Do you feed tripe on its own or do you mix something in with it?
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I get tripe in bulk from Landywoods - 26 p a pound - two pounds feeds five of em for breakfast :D
Penel - Do you feed tripe on its own or do you mix something in with it?
When Alfie gets tripe I give it on its own (and at the bottom of the garden - it stinks! :o)
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Tripe is one step too far for me - the tripe sticks are smelly enough. :o I don't think Coco will be trying fresh tripe any time soon!! :lol:
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I get tripe in bulk from Landywoods - 26 p a pound - two pounds feeds five of em for breakfast :D
Annette - did you post on Britbarf and ask for friendly butchers in your area ?
Yes, but nil back.
I will try again, it was kind of buried in my introduction which Derek did not warn me would be published on the forum. That's one weird site!
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Joules
I think that the concern with lamb bones splintering is if they have been cooked. Since most people who buy them will cook them, that's probably why the butcher told you he didn't keep them in.
My butchers start laughing when I come in: they don't know anyone who feeds their dog raw meat and bones, which they think is a hoot....
Paddy's breath pongs to high heaven today - don't know if it's the lump of oxtail he had last night or the colitis. sadly - think it's the latter..... :'( :'(
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When Alfie gets tripe I give it on its own (and at the bottom of the garden - it stinks! :o)
Does it smell as bad as the lambs' liver and ox's kidney that they had for tea tonight? ph34r
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Dill gets raw green tripe and I don't think it smells too bad....
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Dill gets raw green tripe and I don't think it smells too bad....
I agree - but then OH was retching when he gave Molo some rabbit yesterday - I couldn't smell it though ph34r ph34r
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Yes I feed tripe on its own, most mornings - you get used to the smell - it isn't in their bowls very long :lol: I do mix some raw pulped veg into it sometimes, or a raw egg - but usually they get it on its own.
I would keep Paddy on a very simple raw diet for a while if you can - oxtail is pretty rich stuff.
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Paddy's breath pongs to high heaven today - don't know if it's the lump of oxtail he had last night or the colitis. sadly - think it's the latter..... :'( :'(
Hi Denise, hope Pads is okay today. We're also having issues with smelly breath - oddly though Clive never had it before even with the colitis (Mr sweet breath) and just in the last couple of weeks he stinks! I did finally get round to cleaning his lipfolds yesterday, so I'll see what happens, plus I've got him some smell absorbing treats for the really bad times (don't want to use them long term though, as they just disguise the problem, not sort it out). Unfortunately he's a kisser and half (need a heaving smilie)
It's hard isn't it, because these symptoms can be so many things? Hopefully with Paddy, a simpler diet, as Penel sugests, will help. Clive doesn't mind a pretty monotonous diet and I'm sure Pads won't notice! :luv:
Hope you're keeping your spirits up with all the little challenges your boy is giving you atm! ::)
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I have kept Dill's Barf diet very simple - he gets the frozen natures menu blocks, either chicken& liver, lamb dinner, rabbit dinner or tripe - mostly tripe. I give a dollop of whizzed raw veg with these - veg varies, usually offcuts of what we have (broccoli stalks, those last 2 carrots in the bag etc etc...) That is breakfast.
For dinner he gets either pork ribs, chicken wings, chicken legs and on the rare occasion I can find them lamb ribs.
If I forget to defrost he gets sardines in tomato sauce (small tin, usually 3 sardines)
with a raw egg on top.
Simplicity itself... :D
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Now that sounds more like it Petra! Much simpler than everyone else does which I was finding a bit intimidating. Looks like he is getting plenty of variety too ;)
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Much simpler than everyone else does which I was finding a bit intimidating.
Apologies if I have made BARF "intimidating" - Molo has a similar diet to Dill; pre-packed frozen mince, veggies and meat/bone combinations.
I don't think I will ever stop worrying about getting his vitamin and mineral balance right, though - I have fed complete dogfood for too long to entirely beleieve that all the nutrients that are printed on the back of the packets are also found in the nice, raw, simple diet that he has now ph34r
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I love the word "dollop" :lol:
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Mine are having chicken wings or lamb ribs for breakfast every day and for tea on Sundays. And for tea on the other days they have mince and a dollop of veg 4 times, offal and a dollop of veg once and sardines/pilchards and egg once.
I hope that is balanced enough. :-\ They seem to be enjoying it anyway! :D
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Mine are having chicken wings or lamb ribs for breakfast every day and for tea on Sundays. And for tea on the other days they have mince and a dollop of veg 4 times, offal and a dollop of veg once and sardines/pilchards and egg once.
I hope that is balanced enough. :-\ They seem to be enjoying it anyway! :D
sounds great to me ! :D
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sounds great to me ! :D
Oh good! :D I spent hours reading the books and BARF threads to see what other people did. Then working out percentages of body weights and food groups. ph34r Then when I drew up the menu, it all seemed so simple! ::)
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Mine are having chicken wings or lamb ribs for breakfast every day and for tea on Sundays. And for tea on the other days they have mince and a dollop of veg 4 times, offal and a dollop of veg once and sardines/pilchards and egg once.
I hope that is balanced enough. :-\ They seem to be enjoying it anyway! :D
You've just described Alfie's diet exactly except that he has tripe and an egg for tea on Sundays! Phew! :D
I thought I was doing it wrong as it seemed really simple compared to some stuff I've read on BARF diets!