CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Insurance => Topic started by: DennyK on January 17, 2007, 12:15:16 PM
-
I received my M&S pet insurance renewal forms yesterday.
Paddy is now nearly 15 months old. I've never claimed on the M&S policy (Paddy's colitis started during the six week free insurance period with PetPlan and I never thought about the "pre-existing conditions" exclusions, otherwise I'd have stayed with PetPlan).
Anyway. 12 months ago, my annual premium paid in a one-off lump sum was £163.
Today, it is £269: with a claims record of NO claims.
When I rang up M&S to ask them why, they explained that all pet insurers have seen large increases in the number and value of claims made in the last year and so their profitability has declined. As an industry, they used to be quite "broad brush" in assessing risk - looking mainly at postcode and age of animal. Now, they're applying the same risk profiles used for human life and health insurances.
And what that means is that anyone with a male dog will see significantly increased premiums - statistically more illnesses, more injuries from interaction (fights?) with other dogs. And cockers' tendency to PRA and hip problems also weight the breed quite heavily.
Ho hum. Looks like some time spent internet-searching for comparisons on cost and cover levels.....
Denise
-
Just recieved mines aswell and was expecting a little hike from what ive read on here. Leo's a couple of months older than Paddy and has had one claim but his has come in at £192. I put the letter away in that safe place that i can't seem to find and so forgot to compare with other places >:(
If only pet insurance was like car insurance and went down as the age goes up ;)
-
Mine are insured with Animal Friends Insurance and the new premiums are £17 a month for Bella (2 years, Spayed but we've had a fair number of claims cos of her teeth problems early on), and £19 a month for Zorro (5 months). I'd been wondering why it was more for him - guess that explains it!
-
I think you missed the thread in late july on this dennyk! Premiums sky rocketed 01 August, and i was told young male un-neutered dogs are much more prone to fighting and injuries ::) Had conversations with M&S and the underwriters to no avail - if jarv's policy had expired 7 days earlier, it would have missed the increase ph34r
in truth although the hike is substantial i did look around and compare policies closely, stayed with m&S because of their comprehensive cover.
M&S previously were a 'bargain' for what they were offering so although an increase was justified, i still haven't quite got over HOW much the increase was....
-
Helen
Was your premium hike in the £100 extra type category? Like you, it's about the level of cover offered - and you're right, M&S used to be an absolute bargain!
Denise
-
I dont (yet) have a cocker, but my mongrel is more expensive than my collie by £10 with Direct line.
-
Im absolutely dreading getting our renewal, not only will we have to pay more because Hurley is a young adult male but with the amount of money that we've claimed through Hurley's leg I can't imagine that we'll get away without a significan increase. I also doubt it will be worth our while to change insurers because we've already claimed for a condition (in fact I doubt if we could get cover on a pre-existing condition).
-
Denise I don't understand how there could be such a difference in Paddy and Tilly's insurance quotes even taking the dog/bitch thing into account. I took out her new insurance with M&S last week and it was 'only' £131 for the year and that's the full all singing all dancing premium cover with no excess so how can they possibly justify a difference of £138 - you're paying more than double what I am :o :o
Plus, I took out Alfie's insurance with M&S when I got him in late March last year and it was £142 yet yours for this last year has been £169... very strange. I live pretty much in the suburbs of Edinburgh too so it's not like I'm in the middle of the countryside if they take that into account :huh:
I am expecting a hefty hike in Alfie's insurance in March but if they think they're going to try to tell me it's double the cost of Tilly's then they've got another think coming!
-
Bailey's renewal for M&S was in June 2006 and was £127.80 with no excess (same as 2005). Bailey was 3. We have claimed about 4 times for Bailey, with the most expensive claim being about £70 and the others being around £40.
I insured Harvey (14 weeks) in November with M&S and his cost £212.16 :o :-\
-
Blimey ohh Riley I swapped to M&S as my previous insurer was pants and i have five yes count them five boys four of them entire. Hmm maybe i could claim a typo with Georgina and Harriet and Sydney can be either a boys or a girls name can't it? Clutching at straws me thinks. Just have to wait for my renewal i suppose and take it on the chin.
-
Helen
Was your premium hike in the £100 extra type category? Like you, it's about the level of cover offered - and you're right, M&S used to be an absolute bargain!
Denise
premium hike was in the £100 category >:(
-
Denise I don't understand how there could be such a difference in Paddy and Tilly's insurance quotes even taking the dog/bitch thing into account. I took out her new insurance with M&S last week and it was 'only' £131 for the year and that's the full all singing all dancing premium cover with no excess so how can they possibly justify a difference of £138 - you're paying more than double what I am :o :o
Plus, I took out Alfie's insurance with M&S when I got him in late March last year and it was £142 yet yours for this last year has been £169... very strange. I live pretty much in the suburbs of Edinburgh too so it's not like I'm in the middle of the countryside if they take that into account :huh:
I am expecting a hefty hike in Alfie's insurance in March but if they think they're going to try to tell me it's double the cost of Tilly's then they've got another think coming!
the rationale for a potential increase will be: Tilly is a girl, Tilly is spayed, and Tilly is over 2 therefore she is a lower risk that Alfie, who is male (more prone to fights), un-neutered (as before) and young (as before)
No, it makes no sense to me either, but it seems young entire boys are a much higher risk >:(
-
This is a complete load of nonsense ! :o :o
There is a recent thread on M&S, but as a person who works in the insurance industry I would like to stick my two penneth worth in.
First M&S are a shop NOT an Insurer. They put there name to a product and it sells. The policy is Underwritten by AXA Insurance, one of the largest insurers in the world.
M&S had really really cheap premiums and inevitably they got a lot of business which will have resulted in lots of claims. It is the claims tht have caused the insurance to go up - effectively M&S will have a scheme with AXA and the scheme is unlikely to be running at a profit, hence the price increase.
I was with M&S and at the time couldnt believe the price, I made no claims paid my premium. I was pre warned about the increase. In fact at renewal, only this month, I was astounded when my premium had almost doubled and my excess increased. After a little research I found Healthy Pets, premium almost identical to last year - funny thing is the Insurer is AXA - therefore proving that AXA have not increased ALL of their pet insurance policies.
The cover with Healthy Pets is very similar, the main thing that I have found that is different to M&S is that there is no specific cover for a behaviourist UNLESS you are referred by your vet in connection with another incident/accident and special dietry food (unless again in connection with an accident/incident) tbh I wasnt fussed about these two particular exclusions so I went with them.
I have got to say that if I had been trying to pass this sort of increase and terms onto a client I would be extremely embarrassed.
-
This is a complete load of nonsense ! :o :o
There is a recent thread on M&S, but as a person who works in the insurance industry I would like to stick my two penneth worth in.
First M&S are a shop NOT an Insurer. They put there name to a product and it sells. The policy is Underwritten by AXA Insurance, one of the largest insurers in the world.
M&S had really really cheap premiums and inevitably they got a lot of business which will have resulted in lots of claims. It is the claims tht have caused the insurance to go up - effectively M&S will have a scheme with AXA and the scheme is unlikely to be running at a profit, hence the price increase.
I was with M&S and at the time couldnt believe the price, I made no claims paid my premium. I was pre warned about the increase. In fact at renewal, only this month, I was astounded when my premium had almost doubled and my excess increased. After a little research I found Healthy Pets, premium almost identical to last year - funny thing is the Insurer is AXA - therefore proving that AXA have not increased ALL of their pet insurance policies.
The cover with Healthy Pets is very similar, the main thing that I have found that is different to M&S is that there is no specific cover for a behaviourist UNLESS you are referred by your vet in connection with another incident/accident and special dietry food (unless again in connection with an accident/incident) tbh I wasnt fussed about these two particular exclusions so I went with them.
I have got to say that if I had been trying to pass this sort of increase and terms onto a client I would be extremely embarrassed.
not sure if you're referring to our posts or the information we've received as nonsense..i DID speak to AXA , the underwriter, and this is the rationale they gave ie male dogs - I also mentioned in my post the bargain previous M&S premiums and I do know they had to raise them because of their 'success' and the added weight of hugely increased claim amounts.
Who's to say the Healthy Pets policy doesn't go the same way - it may be AXA's way of gaining new premium holders and anticipating that when they do increase, they will retain a majority of their customers.
-
First M&S are a shop NOT an Insurer. The policy is Underwritten by AXA Insurance, one of the largest insurers in the world.
And futhermore - M & S Money is now owned by HSBC (the bank) - and so has no link with the Marks and Spencers brand at all now ;)
When Molo's 6 weeks free insurance ran out as a pup, M & S was highly recommended - but I didn't buy their policy as the company had just been taken over by HSBC, and I was worried about price rises and change in reputation ::)
After 12 months, the company I had insured with (Direct line) changed their Terms and Conditions which I was no longer happy with; M & S had not increased their prices at that point, so I switched to them - only to have a huge price hike the following year ::)
-
Denise I don't understand how there could be such a difference in Paddy and Tilly's insurance quotes even taking the dog/bitch thing into account. I took out her new insurance with M&S last week and it was 'only' £131 for the year and that's the full all singing all dancing premium cover with no excess so how can they possibly justify a difference of £138 - you're paying more than double what I am :o :o
Plus, I took out Alfie's insurance with M&S when I got him in late March last year and it was £142 yet yours for this last year has been £169... very strange. I live pretty much in the suburbs of Edinburgh too so it's not like I'm in the middle of the countryside if they take that into account :huh:
I am expecting a hefty hike in Alfie's insurance in March but if they think they're going to try to tell me it's double the cost of Tilly's then they've got another think coming!
the rationale for a potential increase will be: Tilly is a girl, Tilly is spayed, and Tilly is over 2 therefore she is a lower risk that Alfie, who is male (more prone to fights), un-neutered (as before) and young (as before)
No, it makes no sense to me either, but it seems young entire boys are a much higher risk >:(
They didn't actually ask me if she was spayed so this can't have been a consideration. I know about the rest though. Gits.
-
I know I've recommended them before but I'm with Healthy Pets. The premium for the first year was £5.50 per month for gold cover and has now gone up to £5.60 per month! This was with a claim in the first year and they didn't know that he'd been castrated. I don't know what the premium will be this September but I think they are excellent and well worth consideration ;)
Link (if it works) http://www.healthy-pets.co.uk/index.htm
-
I was lucky then when my policies for the Newfs were needing renewing.... It was July! I pay £10 something for the one Newf and £11 something for the other, but as Kitten had to have an op which cost £750 (I think), about £500 worth of Metacam, £180 in X-rays I guess my premiums will go up this July!!! We took Tia's insurance out in August and couldn't understand why we had to pay £16.17 for her each month.
Do you think, if you have a dog who is normally healthy and not needing to see a vet regularly, that it would be better to put the money you pay the insurance into a savings account? I am seriously thinking of putting £50 into an account each month when my policies run out, just to cover any large vets fees. At least that way should you have a small normal vet bill you could take it out of your "normal" money, but if it was something big then you would have money in a savings account, which would also be earning you interest.
-
Do you think, if you have a dog who is normally healthy and not needing to see a vet regularly, that it would be better to put the money you pay the insurance into a savings account? I am seriously thinking of putting £50 into an account each month when my policies run out, just to cover any large vets fees. At least that way should you have a small normal vet bill you could take it out of your "normal" money, but if it was something big then you would have money in a savings account, which would also be earning you interest.
I'd be scared that with having two dogs something major would happen to both of them at the same time and there wouldn't be enough money, although god forbid. Say we were in a car accident or something and both of them were injured... sod's law being what it is and all :-\ If I only had one dog I might consider that though.
-
I was lucky then when my policies for the Newfs were needing renewing.... It was July! I pay £10 something for the one Newf and £11 something for the other, but as Kitten had to have an op which cost £750 (I think), about £500 worth of Metacam, £180 in X-rays I guess my premiums will go up this July!!! We took Tia's insurance out in August and couldn't understand why we had to pay £16.17 for her each month.
Do you think, if you have a dog who is normally healthy and not needing to see a vet regularly, that it would be better to put the money you pay the insurance into a savings account? I am seriously thinking of putting £50 into an account each month when my policies run out, just to cover any large vets fees. At least that way should you have a small normal vet bill you could take it out of your "normal" money, but if it was something big then you would have money in a savings account, which would also be earning you interest.
self-insurance (ie putting money aside) is an option and sometimes will cover your dog for life, it's up to you.
a friend with a young collie had to have an unexpected op over christmas when a cat scratched the collies cornea - £1500 and a replacement cornea later and he was pleased he had cover.....
it's a tricky one, i don't worry about jarv's general health, but I do worry that as a somewhat fearless (stupid?) and very active working cocker he could injure himself quite easily, which is where i would count on insurance.
-
I know it is a difficult one as I have been on both sides of it.
When we had our first two Newfies they were originally insured, but after a couple of years of not making a single claime we decided it wasn't worth paying all that money to Pet Plan!
Now with Kitten we were very pleased we had insurance (M&S) as he had OCD and needed an operation and medication for 6 months. But we haven't needed the insurance for Honey or Tia, and there is no reason why Kitten should have any future problems.
I have to admit that the thought that something major will happen as soon as we don't have insurance, and we haven't built up a decent amount in the bank does worry me. But I keep thinking it must be better sat in a bank with my name on it!!
I have a friend who has an "emergency" credit card just for vets bills. But I also know a couple of people who have used the bank method and it has worked fine for them.
-
One of the main reasons I insure is for the 3rd Party cover ;)
If Molo ever did cause a road accident or something similar, then he is covered for £2 million third party liability - my credit card wouldn't stretch to that ph34r ph34r
-
Livercake - I was referring the "nonesense " term to M&S - not the previous threads ;)
I agree, Healthy Pets policies may increase - however, I believe that there premiums have remained pretty stable without any huge rises. I'll take my chance this year.
-
One of the main reasons I insure is for the 3rd Party cover ;)
If Molo ever did cause a road accident or something similar, then he is covered for £2 million third party liability - my credit card wouldn't stretch to that ph34r ph34r
Billys is due for renewal next week and this was something I was reading up on. I read somewhere that insurers will not pay out if the dog was "not under control" when the incident occured. So if one day say Billy escaped and , caused a crash then they wouldn't pay out as he wasn't under control IYSWIM?
-
Im absolutely dreading getting our renewal, not only will we have to pay more because Hurley is a young adult male but with the amount of money that we've claimed through Hurley's leg I can't imagine that we'll get away without a significan increase.
It shouldn't make a difference to you premium whether you have claimed or not. Billys insurance premium is not affected by his claims at all.
-
I read somewhere that insurers will not pay out if the dog was "not under control" when the incident occured. So if one day say Billy escaped and , caused a crash then they wouldn't pay out as he wasn't under control IYSWIM?
It is not specifically excluded in the M & S policy - but I can see that it would be an argument for them not paying up iyswim ;)
-
I was lucky then when my policies for the Newfs were needing renewing.... It was July! I pay £10 something for the one Newf and £11 something for the other, but as Kitten had to have an op which cost £750 (I think), about £500 worth of Metacam, £180 in X-rays I guess my premiums will go up this July!!! We took Tia's insurance out in August and couldn't understand why we had to pay £16.17 for her each month.
Do you think, if you have a dog who is normally healthy and not needing to see a vet regularly, that it would be better to put the money you pay the insurance into a savings account? I am seriously thinking of putting £50 into an account each month when my policies run out, just to cover any large vets fees. At least that way should you have a small normal vet bill you could take it out of your "normal" money, but if it was something big then you would have money in a savings account, which would also be earning you interest.
I think it can work for some people but my income fluctuates so much (some months I can barely pay the insurance and any 'saved' money would be swallowed up)
Wilf had an accident at Easter and his current rehab treatment costs about 83 (plus £11 in train fares on top) a week :o but saying that its worth it not just because he's Wilf but because of what he gets for it. Insurance has meant that I can have this treatment for a non-life-threatening condition
-
Im absolutely dreading getting our renewal, not only will we have to pay more because Hurley is a young adult male but with the amount of money that we've claimed through Hurley's leg I can't imagine that we'll get away without a significan increase.
It shouldn't make a difference to you premium whether you have claimed or not. Billys insurance premium is not affected by his claims at all.
Really?? Thats good. I thought it was like car insurance ie if you make a claim you pay a higher premium!! ph34r
We have claimed almost £4k so far out of the £7k that we can claim in one year. I really really hope that the insurance covers our next op should we need to have it. If not, it might have to wait until May!!
-
I'm with Penny here. :-* It just isn't worth risking having to accept second best for financial reasons when something awful happens to your dog . It would take an awful lot of time saving at £50 a month to meet the bill that Millie cracked up in only three weeks of treatment. I would also be very twitchy about not having third party liability. Years ago, my old retriever's mum jumped into the commercial watercress beds in Hampshire. The owners insisted on dumping the entire crop and claiming against the breeder. Without TPL, she would have been bankrupted. :o :o There is sometimes cover via household insurance but I wouldn't enjoy arguing the toss with a normal, non-specialist insurer.
-
I wonder whether M&S Money also did a "loss leader" on last year's premiums - i.e. abnormally low to hook you in and then put them up to "realistic" levels a year later, counting on apathy to keep large numbers of clients?
Anyway, will finally get round to that internet search (if I ever get off COL) and let you know how Healthy Pets et al compare....
Denise
-
Done the searching. The problem is that you're rarely even close to comparing "like with like". The Healthy Pets plan looks good, but the vet fees cover only goes up to £5k, whereas M&S is £7k per annum. Other policies running at £6k and £6.5k had these levels "per condition" - so once you've spent that much on a long term illness in total, you're on your own.
On the "More Than" site - cover was £7k vets fees, per annum - but all the other things you might reasonably want were covered only to a third of the level set by M&S (e.g. £500 theft -v- £1500 theft and straying). Nearly went for the More Than cover, but checked the excess - it was £75 (fine with me) OR 15% of the vets' fees, whichever is the higher. So on a serious £3500 illness (and I know some of you have had bills of this size), I'd be picking up £525 as the excess. Ouch. I don't know if this was standard or because I put colitis down as a pre-existing condition (and therefore an excluded one).
What I'd really like to find is just a broker who could get me a tailored one-off quote. In reality - it's the vets' fees I'm most concerned about and I'd happily waive some of the "bells and whistles" cover which M&S provides. Might give them a ring and see if it can be tailored down a bit....
Denise
-
What I'd really like to find is just a broker who could get me a tailored one-off quote. In reality - it's the vets' fees I'm most concerned about and I'd happily waive some of the "bells and whistles" cover which M&S provides. Might give them a ring and see if it can be tailored down a bit....
Denise
I think M&S insurance is underwritten by AXA, you might be better off calling them direct and seeing if you can get a tailored quote, per se.
Either way, let us know how you get on - I'd be very interested to hear.
-
Oh my goodness, I just got my Pet Plan renewal through! It is £336 per annum. I pay monthly and it was £18.85 per month and is now £28 roughly per month. Previous years it has been up about £1 per month so i was expecting it to be £20! I am stunned. >:D
-
Oh my goodness, I just got my Pet Plan renewal through! It is £336 per annum. I pay monthly and it was £18.85 per month and is now £28 roughly per month. Previous years it has been up about £1 per month so i was expecting it to be £20! I am stunned. >:D
:huh: Billys pet plan is £18 per month
-
I pay £11.62 with crufts pet insurance which was offered when I refused to pay the premium of the kennel club one! It seems to offer what I need! Maudie is just a pet so I guess show dog need extra????? :huh:
-
I think i just have the very very best policy which is why it is so expensive. I think i will downgrade my cover!
-
Done the searching. The problem is that you're rarely even close to comparing "like with like".
I agree Denise - when I was unhappy with Direct Line after they changes their terms and conditions, I eventually set up a spreadsheet listing all the benefits across the top, and each insurer down the side, so that I could see what I was getting for my money in comparison to others ::)
Until this year, M & S Money offered by far the best value for money (most benefits for cheapest price) now they are still offering one of the most comprehensive policies - but at a higher price, so more people will opt out and find a cheaper policy that offers the cover they are happy with. The good news for those of us staying with M & S Money is that we may find that the current problems being experienced by the company due to too many customers will be alleviated :005: ;)
-
I've been reading this thread with interest as I have had a shocker of a renewal too.
Sophie, now 10 years old, has been insured with Pedigree Livestock Ins all her life, and currently I pay 17.49 per month. Now apparently they have withdrawn from the insurance intermediary market and so I have just been offered a new Exclusive policy with Pet Protect at £30.93 per month :o (£371.20 per annum) That is more than my fully comp car insurance and I have only been driving since last April!!!!
Well they have got me over a barrel here haven't they >:(
I await to see what happens with the two boys insurance, they are insured with Direct Line
-
I have a bank account for my lot - well they actually have premium bonds now as the money needed to work for them, they haven't won anything yet :lol: Reason for bank account was the fact that at the time, 2 out of 3 of mine couldn't get decent insurance as Gizmo had a heart condition and Willow had had joint problems so exclusions meant I was only half covered for both of them. I increased the amount I paid in as I added dogs. I do worry about mega bills but we are pretty well sorted and would cope financially anyway. Can get 3rd party insurance for about £15 a year.
-
Nice to know you can get 3rd party cover without all the rest then! :D
-
Nice to know you can get 3rd party cover without all the rest then! :D
I was thinking the same ;)
Even when included in a full policy, I found the different conditions associated with third party cover varied greatly ::)
Some policies have a blanket £250 excess on third party claims, with others, the excess is £250 for "property damage" claims, but set at the same rate as the overall policy for other 3rd party claims :huh:
-
One way to get 3rd party for £15
http://www.pet-id-club.net/ (http://www.pet-id-club.net/)
-
We use Healthy Pets and have just had our renewal. Despite a claim for £360 for Pepsi's lip fold op and treatment it has only gone up by pennies.
-
Done more searching and decided to go with Halifax's top level of cover - £6k of vets' fees instead of £7k with M&S. £175.44 for the year instead of £263.
Bizarrely, I went direct to Axa's site too and their quote (identical cover to the M&S policy) was £310!
Halifax also don't charge extra if you want to pay monthly by direct debit -so am taking this option to aid cash flow! Works out at £14.62 pcm.
Denise
-
Sounds like you've got a good deal there Denise.
I cant believe that AXA charge so much if you go to them direct!!!