CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: daunting on January 25, 2007, 11:37:01 AM
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crossposted from Dp
http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=130416 (http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=130416)
any advice anyone or ideas as to why they are like it?
I know a little about fading pups but not enough....
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It could well be fading puppies but it's really impossible to say for sure. As to why this is happening, again it's anybody's guess - it could be down to the canine herpes virus which is thought to be a major cause of fading puppies or Mum could have some infection which is affecting the puppiesas they ingest her milk. The breeder could try contacting Heather Ridley who's an expert in hand rearing puppies and will offer advice when needed (I'll PM you the tel no as she may not want it posted publicly). She's very good and is much in demand for breeding seminars etc. There's also been discussion of a new treatment for fading puppies which has worked where all else has failed. You can find more info HERE (http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/39665.html)
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difficult one - I had a bitch who seemed fine in herself (and 2nd litter) but pups were going downhill and fast after 2 days, they also had putrid 'skits' and were so dehydated. My gut feeling was something wrong with the milk, esp because of what was coming out of them. Was a c section birth and wonder if she picked up an infection while waiting at the vets.
Luckily her daughter had a litter a few days older so I made the decision to transfer all the pups to her and for the first day or 2 injected them SubQ with a drip pack my vet had given me as very dehydrated and also gave them all Synolux. The difference in them was amazing - within 24 hours all looked better and had settled and didnt look like skeletons. Vet was not hopeful for them when he first saw them but all survived. The dam was distraught though and needed a mild sedative for a week but if I let her clean them they would have fed from her and I felt this was where the problem was. It was that or hand rear which I have done before and hope I never have to again as I had no help and was exhausted..I now have 2 sisters where one thinks the other one is her dam, and her biological dam the granny...
Lets hope the wee ones are hanging on in there..
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How sad, I hope they will be OK. I haven't lost any puppies in this 2nd litter but it has been very stressful as Buttons had Metritis (womb infection). We're not sure if it was caused by some retained placenta or an underlying infection that was already present before the puppies were born. A few of them struggled for the first few days and Buttons was quite ill with a high temperature which in turn stopped her milk from coming in properly. Also because of the infection and her cleaning the puppies a few of them suffered with mild infections (all clear now).
The main problem was keeping them hydrated. I used a syringe, with Royal Canin Re-hydration powder which I got from the Vets. They got this in between feeds and whenever I felt it necessary. Their weight gain was not great for the first week so some of them were topped up by Catheter and also syringe/bottle feeding. The puppy that had the AB's might have been a bit tired and weak to feed. One of mine had an AB injection and she was very sleepy for 24 hours so had to be topped up with a bottle to make sure she was getting enough.
I notice reading that thread that it says "she came home at lunch time" does this mean there is nobody with the pups :huh: Mine had 24 hour care, if they hadn't, they might not all be here now.
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Totally agree Gilly - in my experience I have found adequate hydration and warmth to be so important - I have a heated incubator that they all get popped in when dam is out for a wee etc and when these pups that I mentioned were so badly dehydrated, they were getting injected every 2 hours by me, in addition to what I could syringe in via their mouths and Stella was cooking with the heat I maintained both in the box and outside.
For bottle feeding, maybe I shouldnt endorse a company, but the best and most calorie dense replacement milk I found was that sold by Pedigree but I believe they no longer make it but instead it is made by the waltham/Royal Canin joint venture and sold as Royal Canin's milk. I firmly believe it was that that saved my totally hand reared litter as they only took off when I changed them onto it. I fed them every 2 hours for 2.5 weeks.They weighed only 3oz at birth - this was Firebirds litter. my usual working cocker birth weight is 15-17 oz (which I know is heavy)
Funny how 2nd litters go wrong, even though S coped with 2 litters, 2nd time round with only 5 she was so ill, with the section and then eclampsia and I had to help her feed these pups for a while inbetween pumping calcium in - think the pain maybe restricted her milk...Previous 2nd litters have also been hair raising at times. Dont know why..
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any news on pups?
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One of my friends german shepherds litter all died except one she called him solo and hes now a police dog.. anyway she was a maiden bitch and it turned out they had an infection which came from the male at mating.
she had a pup post mortemed.. it was very sad but with a lot of nursing she did at least have solo.. who grew to be a huge dog.. :luv:
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no news yet - i have pm'd though so fingers crossed it will be good news...
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had a reply - pups are doing better and feeding from mum, they will still be hand fed until they are strong enough to have her milk alone, hope they continue to thrive :D
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had a reply - pups are doing better and feeding from mum, they will still be hand fed until they are strong enough to have her milk alone, hope they continue to thrive :D
so pleased to read that :D :D :D