CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => General Cocker Spaniel Discussion => Topic started by: pwhite48 on October 06, 2003, 12:23:28 PM

Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: pwhite48 on October 06, 2003, 12:23:28 PM
I wonder if anyone could advise - we were hoping to find a golden coloured cocker (not red but similar colour to a golden retriever).  Is this a common colour - or rare? ??? ;D  Any suggestions where I can see a list or pics of the common cocker colours?                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Dessie on October 06, 2003, 12:52:30 PM
Hi

Golden Cockers are quite common but Golden Retrievers their colouring goes from really pale cream right through to a very dark gold almost red.

Have a look at http://www.mightyfalls.com/efoton5.htm (http://www.mightyfalls.com/efoton5.htm)

Dessie :D :D                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Tricialane on October 06, 2003, 12:55:19 PM
I found a site that has some photos of the different colours.  It is www.ecspuppies.tripod.com.

There was another overseas site where people sent in loads of photos of their cockers and they were sorted by colour, but I cant seem to find that now.
Hope this helps.

Tricia                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Jane S on October 06, 2003, 02:46:47 PM
The other site Tricia mentions is at http://w1.457.telia.com/~u45710745/ (http://w1.457.telia.com/~u45710745/). For photos of solid Cockers in the UK, have a look at http://www.solidcolourcockers.fsnet.co.uk/solid.htm (http://www.solidcolourcockers.fsnet.co.uk/solid.htm) I have never seen a Gold Cocker as pale in colour as the palest Golden Retrievers (though you do see this colour in American Cockers where its called pale buff). Most Golden Retrievers these days are much paler than the average gold Cocker so am unsure exactly what colour you're looking for. Bear in mind though that when looking at Cocker puppies, it is often not possible to predict exactly what shade of red/gold they will be as adults.                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Luvlylady on October 06, 2003, 04:13:07 PM
Wow in tha link jane gave in the oval shape , looks like a grey cocker , do these exsist or is it just the coour thats come out. wouldent it be nice to see pure soild grey cockers ;D                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2003, 04:33:00 PM
I spy with my little eye... our very own Michele serving on the Solid Colour Cockers' committee :D                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Colin on October 06, 2003, 04:33:41 PM
Wow in tha link jane gave in the oval shape , looks like a grey cocker , do these exsist

If you look a bit closer you will see it is a reversed black and white version of the photo of the red cocker it is facing. ;D

On the same site I noticed it said that chocolate and liver cockers are defined by their depth of colour in the same way that depth of colour defines a red or gold. I understood from a previous thread that choc and liver were one and the same thing. ???                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2003, 04:41:10 PM
I know what you mean Colin. There's definitely a distinction between the colour of Loraine's chocolate dog Georgia, and the redder-liver in my springer Jazz. But I also remember the previous thread where it was explained that traditionally cockers of all shades of brown were mostly known as chocolate/choc roan, whereas springers were defined as liver. So Jane, over to you once again  ;D                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Michele on October 06, 2003, 04:55:52 PM
I spy with my little eye... our very own Michele serving on the Solid Colour Cockers' committee :D



Yes indeed that's me ;D and if you click on
http://www.solidcolourcockers.fsnet.co.uk/so02000.htm (http://www.solidcolourcockers.fsnet.co.uk/so02000.htm) and scroll to the bottom of the page, the black cocker with the blue background is my very own Neneh :-*

There are infact about 18 colour definitions for cockers, although some double up ie choc/liver, but with the red/golden their colour is determined by the depth of colour in the coat.
I wonder if between Jane & myself (and anyone else in the know) we could list all the various colours ???                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Michele on October 06, 2003, 05:00:58 PM
Okay here goes

Black
Black & Tan
Red
Golden
Liver
Liver & Tan
Chocolate
Black & White
Black & White Ticked  ??? (is this still recognised)
Black, White & Tan (tri-colour)
Blue Roan
Blue Roan & Tan
Orange Roan
Orange & White
Lemon Roan
Lemon & White

over to you Jane ;D                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: *Jay* on October 06, 2003, 05:11:17 PM
You missed chocolate roan...now only one more to get ???

Edited to add that the only other one I can think of would be chocolate and white                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: KellyP on October 06, 2003, 05:17:29 PM
sable?                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Colin on October 06, 2003, 05:18:22 PM
Sorry about this Michele but thicko here is still confused. ::)  ;D

You say that liver and chocolate "double up"......does this mean they are the same colour  (liver being the traditional old school description, chocolate a more recent one gaining popularity) because you then go on to list them separately...........which leads me to think they are two different colours depending on "depth." That website definitely infers that they are two differing colours in the same way that red and gold are different.

You'll have to speak slowly to me though ! ;)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Jane S on October 06, 2003, 06:03:24 PM
I have heard some breeders say that chocolate & liver are 2 different shades of the same colour in the same way that red & gold are. I'm not convinced by this at all - nor is Peggy Grayson who has written the definitive book on Cocker history ;) Most breeders choose to register their pups as liver or chocolate depending on what name they actually prefer - the older breeders register as liver & the more modern ones as chocolate. Commercial breeders always use the term "chocolate" as it's more appealing to their buyers :) So take your pick - as with lots of subjects, opinions differ ;)

Going back to the list, you could add orange & white ticked & lemon & white ticked as well as chocolate/liver roan & chocolate/liver white & tan. Sable isn't included in the Cocker Breed Council list of accepted colours but it is well established in some European countries so it depends on your perspective :)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Luvlylady on October 06, 2003, 09:40:12 PM
Saw on that site red roan and orange roan there both nice . ive never seen a sable cocker are they rare?I did find a website that showed chocloate and liver they both looked different the liver looked not as ritch as the chocolate ones who knows thou..                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Jane S on October 06, 2003, 10:28:11 PM
Trouble is some of the photos you have been looking at are of Cockers in other countries where different breeders use different terms. No UK breeder would use the term "red roan" for example. Also the photos vary enormously in quality - there are some very bad photos on that World site & you can't really say what colour the dogs really are ;)

Sable is a v controversial colour - none have been seen in the UK for decades although I believe a couple have recently been imported by a UK breeder. It remains to be seen what impact if any they will have :)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: *Jay* on October 07, 2003, 09:08:30 AM
Quote
No UK breeder would use the term "red roan" for example.

Funny you should say that Jane, as we apparently have a strawberry roan cocker coming in next week :- Its got me all intrigued now because Ive never heard of that colour - but it does sound lovely ;)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Jane S on October 07, 2003, 09:35:46 AM
Quote
No UK breeder would use the term "red roan" for example.

Funny you should say that Jane, as we apparently have a strawberry roan cocker coming in next week :- Its got me all intrigued now because Ive never heard of that colour - but it does sound lovely ;)

Bet it's an orange Gill ;) Unfortunately under the current registration system, there's nothing to stop inexperienced breeders registering their litters with made-up colours eg I've seen litters registered as peach & champagne, apricot & brindle - the mind boggles ;D                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: KellyP on October 07, 2003, 05:38:55 PM
lol Jane  ;D  ;D

you can check out various colours here :

http://w1.457.telia.com/~u45710745/ (http://w1.457.telia.com/~u45710745/)

including sable - not sure about it myself ... but I'm  not sure about liver/choc and tan either  :-

from that site I can count 17 colours, not including sable

Black; Black & tan, Black tan & white; Black &white; blue roan; blue roan and tan; liver/choc; liver/choc roan; liver/choc & tan; liver/choc and white; liver/choc white and tan; liver/choc roan and tan; red; orange and white; orange roan; lemon and white; lemon roan

They haven't included gold as a separate colour

Modified to add in this link too

http://www.stirling-ecs.org/general/rainbow.html (http://www.stirling-ecs.org/general/rainbow.html)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Jane S on October 07, 2003, 10:57:50 PM
Yes I posted that first link earlier on in this thread - it's the one where I made the comments about the bad photos ;D Same goes for the second link - some really awful photos on their too sadly ;) Neither of these are UK sites - I will try & find the list of accepted colours that the UK Breed Council has submitted to the Kennel Club, though I'm sure we've already covered them by now :)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: KellyP on October 08, 2003, 05:00:34 PM
oh yeah Jane - I see your link now - I think I must be going blind .. or loopy... or maybe both  ;D  ;D  ::)                    
Title: Cocker Colours
Post by: Anonymous on October 09, 2003, 08:45:52 PM
;DOh my oh my I have fallen for the chocolate and sable BIG TIME how sweet!!!! ;D

I love ALL cockers they are just the bestest doggies ever ;D