CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: MaryAnne on February 19, 2008, 10:09:54 PM
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Hi Everyone,
My trainer suggested that a half check collar may be good for Lola. I understand how they are used in training when walking to heel but can anyone tell me are they supposed to be used as a normal collar or just for walks ?Are they safe to be left on without a lead?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated :D
Thanks MA
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I use them all the time on my dogs and we have done for years never had any probs they are good aswell because they are fully adjustable and you can just slip them on and off without having to keep undoing buckles. I don't leave them or collars on all the time. The only time they have anything on is if they are out walking, offlead or in the car.
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My (ex) trainer told me this too! But they are not good to use and damage your dogs throat and windpipe, particularly if she pulls. you are better with an ordinary collar or a harness.
Claire
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I think if your dog pulls, any collar will choke them. I know from expericence the half check collars are great as I have used them for safety more than anything as a dog cant slip out of them :D
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Piffle :005: As I said I have used them for years - no damaged throats or windpipes here I can assure you! :005: Personally I'm not a harness lover or of any of the other various contraptions available on the pet market these days... each to there own though :D
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A half-check collar is an aversive training tool and should be used under the supervision or instruction of an experienced dog trainer/handler ;) If you have been advised to use one, then the trainer should explain clearly their use and the benefits and risks.
Personally, I think there are kinder ways to train my dog, and I enjoy a challenge, so don't use aversives in training ;)
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It was my behaviourist who told me this, Charlies eyes used to always be red and as soon as I stopped using it his eyes stopped getting so red, glad others have found them useful.
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I have used a half check on Neneh for all of her life (nearly 9) and she has never hurt her windpipe either.
What I will say though is if you are going to use one it must be fitted correctly, which is that when the chain part is pulled taut the webbing part of the collar should meet. Any tighter than that and the chain will pinch the neck.
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A half-check collar is an aversive training tool and should be used under the supervision or instruction of an experienced dog trainer/handler ;) If you have been advised to use one, then the trainer should explain clearly their use and the benefits and risks.
Personally, I think there are kinder ways to train my dog, and I enjoy a challenge, so don't use aversives in training ;)
Horses for courses Rachel!
With Neneh I never had to 'check' her, she would just hear the chink of the chain and that was enough. With Halle it would have been of no use whatsoever, she pulls like a train in anything you try her with, including a sporn harness.
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A half-check collar is an aversive training tool and should be used under the supervision or instruction of an experienced dog trainer/handler ;) If you have been advised to use one, then the trainer should explain clearly their use and the benefits and risks.
Personally, I think there are kinder ways to train my dog, and I enjoy a challenge, so don't use aversives in training ;)
Horses for courses Rachel!
Definitely - but if a trainer is going to recommend the use of any training tool, then they should explain its use, imo and not expect the student to find out for themselves :-\
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A half-check collar is an aversive training tool
:005: Perhaps they had better start putting warnings on the packets in the petshops ::)
I think people should really try to train/put more effort into training their dogs to walk on a collar and lead rather than resort to harnesses, haltis and other contraptions for a quick fix :-\ Sorry to those of you that use these things but they are not for me.
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A half-check collar is an aversive training tool
:005: Perhaps they had better start putting warnings on the packets in the petshops ::)
I think people should really try to train/put more effort into training their dogs to walk on a collar and lead rather than resort to harnesses, haltis and other contraptions for a quick fix :-\ Sorry to those of you that use these things but they are not for me.
I agree with this, but it's what you use whilst you train. I have spent hours training with Charlie, but he had to wear something when he was training! He now walk lovely unless there is water or other areas of high excitement, I continue to work on these ;)
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I think people should really try to train/put more effort into training their dogs to walk on a collar and lead rather than resort to harnesses, haltis and other contraptions for a quick fix :-\ Sorry to those of you that use these things but they are not for me.
What is the difference between a half-check collar (which is a training tool, not a normal collar) and a training harness? Just because a check collar has been around for longer than the newer "contraptions", they are all designed to assist in the training process ::)
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I think people should really try to train/put more effort into training their dogs to walk on a collar and lead rather than resort to harnesses, haltis and other contraptions for a quick fix :-\ Sorry to those of you that use these things but they are not for me.
What is the difference between a half-check collar (which is a training tool, not a normal collar) and a training harness? Just because a check collar has been around for longer than the newer "contraptions", they are all designed to assist in the training process ::)
Completely agree!
Not a fan of the check collar at all. I have used one in the past, sold to me by a trainer, but never would again.
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You certainley get out what you put in ;) and if a harness works for you then thats great...but you hear all to often people saying they can't stop their dog pulling on the lead and instead of persevering they go out and buy a harness or the like and so on and so on. I personally don't think that harnesses are good to teach a dog to stop pulling and walk correctly I also think they can affect a dogs conformation and head carriage as does pulling but thats another story.
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Ok so why against a check collar :-\ If a pup is trained correctly for day 1 there should be no pulling so therefore it wouldnt matter what collar they wear :-\
But if you have a dog who does pull and you are training it not to, again does it matter what collar as if trained correctly the dog should never be allowed to pull to the extent that it will choke itself :-\ JMO
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What is the difference between a half-check collar (which is a training tool, not a normal collar) and a training harness?
The difference is half-check collar/collars - control and direct the head of the animal, training harnesses control the dogs body - think about it ...why are harnesses used for horses ;)
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You certainley get out what you put in ;) and if a harness works for you then thats great...but you hear all to often people saying they can't stop their dog pulling on the lead and instead of persevering they go out and buy a harness or the like and so on and so on. I personally don't think that harnesses are good to teach a dog to stop pulling and walk correctly I also think they can affect a dogs conformation and head carriage as does pulling but thats another story.
I'm one of those people ph34r and I don't care. Harnesses have made walks much more enjoyable for all of us.
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Ok so why against a check collar :-\ If a pup is trained correctly for day 1 there should be no pulling so therefore it wouldnt matter what collar they wear :-\
But if you have a dog who does pull and you are training it not to, again does it matter what collar as if trained correctly the dog should never be allowed to pull to the extent that it will choke itself :-\ JMO
In my case I did not have Charlie from a pup and he came with pulling steam train stye problems! I do not use a harness I use a regular collar, he came with a choke chain and pulled so much he used to make him self sick!
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You certainley get out what you put in ;) and if a harness works for you then thats great...but you hear all to often people saying they can't stop their dog pulling on the lead and instead of persevering they go out and buy a harness or the like and so on and so on.
Yes, that's true - but the practicalities of modern life mean that most people have to use a lead to get to an exercise area, and the old adage is "never train a wired dog, only train a tired dog".
I want to let my dogs run and get rid of some energy so that they are in the best possible frame of mind before I train them; so I use a harness to prevent them pulling and reinforcing the behaviour. Once they are exercised, then I work on training them to walk nicely on their collars (flat, not check) :D Molo is doing really well, but Bonnee is taking a bit longer - but at least I know I have not caused them stress or discomfort to achieve what I want them to do ;)
What is the difference between a half-check collar (which is a training tool, not a normal collar) and a training harness?
The difference is half-check collar/collars - control and direct the head of the animal, training harnesses control the dogs body - think about it ...why are harnesses used for horses ;)
I'm not sure I understand this; surely a halti/gentle leader controls the head far better than a collar ever could ? :huh:
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Yes, that's true - but the practicalities of modern life mean that most people have to use a lead to get to an exercise area, and the old adage is "never train a wired dog, only train a tired dog".
I want to let my dogs run and get rid of some energy so that they are in the best possible frame of mind before I train them;
Errrm sorry but why would you want to get rid of a dogs energy before you train :-\
I would have thought that you should be able to train a dog with this high energy, as well as after it has let off some energy
Surely if you only ever train after they have let off some energy you ain't gonna be able to control / train them if and when needed when they are full of energy
I train ALL my dogs both when they are full of energy and after they have let some out - as this was the advice I got of a fantastic well known trainer (before I had cockers, and also since I have had cockers)
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Yes, that's true - but the practicalities of modern life mean that most people have to use a lead to get to an exercise area, and the old adage is "never train a wired dog, only train a tired dog".
I want to let my dogs run and get rid of some energy so that they are in the best possible frame of mind before I train them;
Errrm sorry but why would you want to get rid of a dogs energy before you train :-\
I would have thought that you should be able to train a dog with this high energy, as well as after it has let off some energy
Surely if you only ever train after they have let off some energy you ain't gonna be able to control / train them if and when needed when they are full of energy
I train ALL my dogs both when they are full of energy and after they have let some out - as this was the advice I got of a fantastic well known trainer (before I had cockers, and also since I have had cockers)
I consider energy to be like any other "distraction" and introduce it gradually; so I would never train a "new" behaviour when they are wired and unexercised, but I will expect well established behaviours to be displayed at any time ;)
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Ok so why against a check collar :-\ If a pup is trained correctly for day 1 there should be no pulling so therefore it wouldnt matter what collar they wear :-\
But if you have a dog who does pull and you are training it not to, again does it matter what collar as if trained correctly the dog should never be allowed to pull to the extent that it will choke itself :-\ JMO
In my case I did not have Charlie from a pup and he came with pulling steam train stye problems! I do not use a harness I use a regular collar, he came with a choke chain and pulled so much he used to make him self sick!
That is very true ;) Sweepie is the same, therefore I have had to train her with no lead and no collar to walk to heel. She is getting the idea but will still pull sometimes if I have her on a lead, there for it would make no difference what collar she had on or lead, she would still choke herself, yes a harness would stop her choking and I do have 2 for her, but it doesnt cure the pulling, I will one day get her to walk correctly on the lead and until such times she will go without a lead and be walked on her own or with the younger dogs to avoid the pulling as she only pulls on the lead when the bigger dogs are on our walks :D
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Yes, that's true - but the practicalities of modern life mean that most people have to use a lead to get to an exercise area, and the old adage is "never train a wired dog, only train a tired dog".
I want to let my dogs run and get rid of some energy so that they are in the best possible frame of mind before I train them;
Errrm sorry but why would you want to get rid of a dogs energy before you train :-\
I would have thought that you should be able to train a dog with this high energy, as well as after it has let off some energy
Surely if you only ever train after they have let off some energy you ain't gonna be able to control / train them if and when needed when they are full of energy
I train ALL my dogs both when they are full of energy and after they have let some out - as this was the advice I got of a fantastic well known trainer (before I had cockers, and also since I have had cockers)
Becuase if they are all hyped up with energy they are less likely to concentrate.
I have always always been taught to train Billy after he's had some exercise. The training class we used to go to was straight after i got home from work, hence we had no time to exercise him before hand & he was very very difficult during classes. So we changed classes to a later one which meant we had half an hour before to do some exercise & use up some energy . the difference was truly amasing!
I thought everyone did this :huh: It's always what i was taught anyway, by numerous trainers.
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I'm not sure I understand this; surely a halti/gentle leader controls the head far better than a collar ever could ?
Yes possibly but i think Haltis/headcollars etc can be dangerous and could damage a dogs neck and spine if not used correctly. Not only that but they tend to irritate dogs eyes and you often see them pawing at their faces - It just gets silly, your walking a 10kg dog not a two tonne animal - next there will be 'Bits' for dogs mouths :005:
A good old fashioned collar/check collar/ slip lead would be my choice for the reasons already posted but as I have already said each to there own and it is for the original poster to choose what she wishes to do...
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Becuase if they are all hyped up with energy they are less likely to concentrate.
I have always always been taught to train Billy after he's had some exercise. The training class we used to go to was straight after i got home from work, hence we had no time to exercise him before hand & he was very very difficult during classes. So we changed classes to a later one which meant we had half an hour before to do some exercise & use up some energy . the difference was truly amasing!
I thought everyone did this :huh: It's always what i was taught anyway, by numerous trainers.
As I said I train both before and after they have let off some energy
It's a lot harder work to train a dog that has excess energy and I suppose that most people do it the way you do as it is easier :-\
Ah and to go back to topic - I have never used a half choke
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Yes, that's true - but the practicalities of modern life mean that most people have to use a lead to get to an exercise area, and the old adage is "never train a wired dog, only train a tired dog".
I want to let my dogs run and get rid of some energy so that they are in the best possible frame of mind before I train them;
Errrm sorry but why would you want to get rid of a dogs energy before you train :-\
I would have thought that you should be able to train a dog with this high energy, as well as after it has let off some energy
Surely if you only ever train after they have let off some energy you ain't gonna be able to control / train them if and when needed when they are full of energy
I train ALL my dogs both when they are full of energy and after they have let some out - as this was the advice I got of a fantastic well known trainer (before I had cockers, and also since I have had cockers)
Becuase if they are all hyped up with energy they are less likely to concentrate.
I have always always been taught to train Billy after he's had some exercise. The training class we used to go to was straight after i got home from work, hence we had no time to exercise him before hand & he was very very difficult during classes. So we changed classes to a later one which meant we had half an hour before to do some exercise & use up some energy . the difference was truly amasing!
I thought everyone did this :huh: It's always what i was taught anyway, by numerous trainers.
I suppose it makes sense, but like Cazza i prefer to train my dogs when they are fresh in mind, as I know that if I can control them in a fresh state of mind then I can control them anytime, well thats the theory anyway :005:
I get the best in training from all my dogs when they are hyped up, as I know after excercise, they cant be bothered and are lax and un interested, therefore not really being much use.
If a dog imo is hyped up its easier to train as its instincts and on the ball, and if it is going to do something wrong or incorrectly then it will in this state, making it easier to correct in an instant, also I find im fresh in mind and on form to deal with every situation so to speak.
I suppose it can be compared with getting a child to run round the playing field a load of times before a maths lesson, I know I couldnt be focused after that :D
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I suppose it can be compared with getting a child to run round the playing field a load of times before a maths lesson, I know I couldnt be focused after that :D
But I'm not talking about a three hour hike, just say, a twenty minute off lead session.
I definately can't train Billy when he's all full of energy, he's a nightmare, he just bounces everywhere , like tigger ::) oh and he barks, loads! ::)
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I suppose it can be compared with getting a child to run round the playing field a load of times before a maths lesson, I know I couldnt be focused after that :D
But I'm not talking about a three hour hike, just say, a twenty minute off lead session.
I definately can't train Billy when he's all full of energy, he's a nightmare, he just bounces everywhere , like tigger ::) oh and he barks, loads! ::)
Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
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Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
No, with Billy it's excitement. It's like " what we doing mum, come on, come on, come on, quick, quick" He get's soooo excited and wants to do everything at break neck speed, whereas when he's had a run he's much more chilled and not so intent on doing everything as quick as he possibly can. Monster that he is ::)
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Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
No, with Billy it's excitement. It's like " what we doing mum, come on, come on, come on, quick, quick" He get's soooo excited and wants to do everything at break neck speed, whereas when he's had a run he's much more chilled and not so intent on doing everything as quick as he possibly can. Monster that he is ::)
:005: So therefore you could train him in 2 mins :005: :005: A quick sit, stay retrieve etc etc :005: :005:
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Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
That is exactly what the trainer said to me (and for those of you think it could have been the same trainer it definately wasn't )
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I prefer a harness for Dax because though he is pretty good on a collar and lead for his age pups will pull when they are distracted and I don't want him to hurt his neck. ;) Use the ordinary collar and lead as well for training purposes so he gets used to a loose lead when walking but just for short bursts for now :blink:. Though we all have to make our own minds up about what is best for our dogs, I really don't like the half choke collars when they are used to yank a dog back for pulling (not suggesting anyone on here does this) but I have seen this done and it made me grimace. :-\
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I really don't like the half choke collars when they are used to yank a dog back for pulling (not suggesting anyone on here does this) but I have seen this done and it made me grimace. :-\
Both the full check collar and the half-check are designed to be used through the use of a corrective "jerk", but neither should "yank" the dog; the aversive with the half-check is the noise it makes and an increased pressure (not tightening) around the neck acting to correct the dogs behaviour .
The technique of using these collars needs to be taught properly and the handler trained to use it correctly - otherwise it can become uncomfortable or stressful for the dog :-\
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Ive used check collars on my Labs for years, and have never yanked on their necks :shades:
We call Nell ( Lab) houdini girl, she can escape very easily out of an ordinary collar, she sort of yanks herself out backwards ::) she did this near a very busy main road once :o if there used correctly i can't see a problem. i would rather use a check collar on her knowing that she is safe, than have an ordinary collar round her neck that is very tight :shades:
What I will say though is if you are going to use one it must be fitted correctly, which is that when the chain part is pulled taut the webbing part of the collar should meet. Any tighter than that and the chain will pinch the neck
Wot Michelle says ;)
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...I have no preferences either way - I am lucky Bracken does not pull.
However, I walked (briefly and after a good exercise) my friends very large, GSD on Saturday, she was wearing a half-choke, and she walked beautifully - it definitely seemed that the moment she heard the chain, she slowed down and walked to heel automatically!! I was quite impressed. ;)
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I use them on my boys but I don't use the check part. They can be used without checking as they have two points for the lead to clip on.
I use them as I thnk they are better for the fur than a normal collar. When my dogs are inside I take the collars off.
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My trainer suggested that a half check collar may be good for Lola. I understand how they are used in training when walking to heel but can anyone tell me are they supposed to be used as a normal collar or just for walks ?Are they safe to be left on without a lead?
Like Michele said they need to be fitted correctly, so as not to pinch a fold of skin if they tighten. Also the chain part cant hang too low or the dog risks getting a paw caught when off lead. I would never put a half-check on my dog if it was going to be jumping (e.g. agility, flyball, working trials) as I would fear a leg getting caught and them getting hurt.
Storm has a half-check just because I think it looks pretty on her ph34r I trained her on a flat collar not to pull, and then moved her onto a half-check for heelwork.
The other discussion going on on the thread...most things/exercises I prefer to teach my dogs when they are fresh and hyper, the exceptions being scent and stays which I first introduce when they are calmer.
edited to add: the other thing with them is (like the metal on all collars) it can rust over time if allowed to get wet a lot (so check them often). Having said that my Mum's collie wears her half-check all the time (so we can grab her easily when she gets OTT). The dog has had the same collar for 15+ years, and it's only just starting to show signs of rust.
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Ive used check collars on my Labs for years, and have never yanked on their necks :shades:
We call Nell ( Lab) houdini girl, she can escape very easily out of an ordinary collar, she sort of yanks herself out backwards ::) she did this near a very busy main road once :o if there used correctly i can't see a problem. i would rather use a check collar on her knowing that she is safe, than have an ordinary collar round her neck that is very tight :shades:
This is why I use half check collars, always have & always will.
Also for various reasons would never leave a collar on any of my dogs, these are easy to slip on & off as required.
As Michele said they need to fit properly, they are not designed to pinch & although most of my dogs pull like trains when they are walked together, I certainly don't feel the need to yank their necks.
They learn the word "steady" for the ring & do try to be good on walks ::) :005:
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I think any dog will walk much better on any type of collar/harness etc. after it has expended energy, so what do Rachel and others who prefer to train their dogs after they've burnt off some energy do before they arrive at their chosen destination.
My lot will pull to go on the walk, but walk to heel very happily on the way back. I don't see what you have enforced to make this happen. :dunno:
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agree with you Michele
I take all my lot out on a one to one basis first thing in the morning and do lead training (without them having let off energy) and then they all get a walk together to the chosen destination (and a free for all hoolay - letting off steam etc and the only training done on this is recall and sit) Then they get a more indepth training programme on a one to one basis
(Ok so I have the time to do this so I am lucky - as I only work 2 days a week and my kids are at school, and old enough to be left when I do the first one to one, as I am always within shouting distance due to my location)
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Half checks are fine for everyday collars as long as they are adjusted correctly - meaning that the two rings should meet when fully tight, but not choke the dog.
Vera
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I think any dog will walk much better on any type of collar/harness etc. after it has expended energy, so what do Rachel and others who prefer to train their dogs after they've burnt off some energy do before they arrive at their chosen destination.
My lot will pull to go on the walk, but walk to heel very happily on the way back. I don't see what you have enforced to make this happen. :dunno:
I want them to learn not to pull at any time - if I allow them to pull on the way, but heel on the way back, then they haven't learnt not to pull, and they are rewarded for pulling by being let off lead when I get there ::)
In order to ensure that their training sessions for heel work are constructive, I want them to be exercised first - so I use a harness to prevent them pulling and being rewarded for it ;)
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We use half check collars on all of our dogs.
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Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
That is exactly what the trainer said to me (and for those of you think it could have been the same trainer it definately wasn't )
I wish it was quite as easy as that... someone please tell me how to make myself as interesting and irresitible to my lurchers as a running bunny, fox or squirrel... Any suggestions very welcome... >:D :005: (And no, I am NOT going to dress up or run funny or even climb trees... :D).
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Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
That is exactly what the trainer said to me (and for those of you think it could have been the same trainer it definately wasn't )
I wish it was quite as easy as that... someone please tell me how to make myself as interesting and irresitible to my lurchers as a running bunny or fox... Any suggestions very welcome... >:D :005:
Ill give you my trainers number :005:
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I think any dog will walk much better on any type of collar/harness etc. after it has expended energy, so what do Rachel and others who prefer to train their dogs after they've burnt off some energy do before they arrive at their chosen destination.
My lot will pull to go on the walk, but walk to heel very happily on the way back. I don't see what you have enforced to make this happen. :dunno:
I want them to learn not to pull at any time - if I allow them to pull on the way, but heel on the way back, then they haven't learnt not to pull, and they are rewarded for pulling by being let off lead when I get there ::)
In order to ensure that their training sessions for heel work are constructive, I want them to be exercised first - so I use a harness to prevent them pulling and being rewarded for it ;)
Exactly the same reason Neneh wears a half check, as I said horses for courses.
Half checks are fine for everyday collars as long as they are adjusted correctly - meaning that the two rings should meet when fully tight, but not choke the dog.
Vera
Vera, I take it you didn't have time to read the whole thread, thank you for confirming what was already mentioned on page 1. :shades:
I have used a half check on Neneh for all of her life (nearly 9) and she has never hurt her windpipe either.
What I will say though is if you are going to use one it must be fitted correctly, which is that when the chain part is pulled taut the webbing part of the collar should meet. Any tighter than that and the chain will pinch the neck.
Back to the OP's original question, none of mine wear a collar (of any sort) in the house and if travelling in a crate in the car I remove them then too as it has been known for dogs to strangle themselves when the i.d disc has got caught between the bars. :'(
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Well I can assume from this that I was one of the ones who used it wrongly. I feel quite bad about this, nobody showed me how to put it on, it was just sold to me at training class. I am as I think everybody knows a novice dog owner, and it definitly did have a bad effect on Charlie. So I hope, if reading this thread helps other novice dog owners like me ask the right questions it will be a good thing. Sorry for talking piffle :005:
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I think any dog will walk much better on any type of collar/harness etc. after it has expended energy, so what do Rachel and others who prefer to train their dogs after they've burnt off some energy do before they arrive at their chosen destination.
My lot will pull to go on the walk, but walk to heel very happily on the way back. I don't see what you have enforced to make this happen. :dunno:
I know this doesn't relate to half check collars but have found this fascinating. Went to a new puppy course as didn't get on at my old one, this new course is 4 lessons of one to one with the trainer and 4 lessons of group training, anyway to the point, I did my one to one with my trainer last night and we were doing heel work which was getting Indie into position for loose lead walking as this is my biggest issue. My trainer advised me whilst I am still training Indie to walk to heel on a loose lead that I don't walk her anywhere where she can undo my training, I told her that I currently use a harness as Indie pulls like mad and she said it will take even longer to train her if I still go for walks with her pulling as I will be undoing all the training at home so advised me to take her out in the car to where we go to our field for off lead exercise so that she doesn't get the chance to pull again whilst I am trying to train her with normal collar and lead. Oh yes back to the point, no half check collars in our training.
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Coming in to this late but most pieces of equipment used on dogs has the possibility of causing some discomfort if not fitted and used properly.
There is scientific evidence which suggests use of full choke collars and slip leads can cause damage to the dog but
Like Vera I have no problem with a half check as long as it is adjusted properly.
I still would not use one to yank a dog back but I wouldn't on a flat collar or head harness either.
Mark
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none of mine wear a collar (of any sort) in the house and if travelling in a crate in the car I remove them then too as it has been known for dogs to strangle themselves when the i.d disc has got caught between the bars.
How awful :'( never thought of that. The reason mine have them on in the car is incase we are in a car accident and have to get the dogs out quickly or they run off at least they would have their collars on to easily grab hold of.
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none of mine wear a collar (of any sort) in the house and if travelling in a crate in the car I remove them then too as it has been known for dogs to strangle themselves when the i.d disc has got caught between the bars.
How awful :'( never thought of that. The reason mine have them on in the car is incase we are in a car accident and have to get the dogs out quickly or they run off at least they would have their collars on to easily grab hold of.
It happened to a young Viszla pup at a show I was at. The owners had only left it for a very short time but it got caught and with the pup twisting round it strangled itself. :'(
I agree about wanting to have something to get hold of, perhaps the flat collars with the id threaded through would be good for this occasion.
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I think any dog will walk much better on any type of collar/harness etc. after it has expended energy, so what do Rachel and others who prefer to train their dogs after they've burnt off some energy do before they arrive at their chosen destination.
My lot will pull to go on the walk, but walk to heel very happily on the way back. I don't see what you have enforced to make this happen. :dunno:
I know this doesn't relate to half check collars but have found this fascinating. Went to a new puppy course as didn't get on at my old one, this new course is 4 lessons of one to one with the trainer and 4 lessons of group training, anyway to the point, I did my one to one with my trainer last night and we were doing heel work which was getting Indie into position for loose lead walking as this is my biggest issue. My trainer advised me whilst I am still training Indie to walk to heel on a loose lead that I don't walk her anywhere where she can undo my training, I told her that I currently use a harness as Indie pulls like mad and she said it will take even longer to train her if I still go for walks with her pulling as I will be undoing all the training at home so advised me to take her out in the car to where we go to our field for off lead exercise so that she doesn't get the chance to pull again whilst I am trying to train her with normal collar and lead. Oh yes back to the point, no half check collars in our training.
Or you could use two different types of equipment when you have time to practice properly and when you don't. Eg. have one harness and lead when you are 100% consistent and have a different type of harness/lead when you don't have time. Once your dog is fine with the "when you are consistent" harness, you can switch to that permanently.
Vera
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Or you could use two different types of equipment when you have time to practice properly and when you don't. Eg. have one harness and lead when you are 100% consistent and have a different type of harness/lead when you don't have time. Once your dog is fine with the "when you are consistent" harness, you can switch to that permanently.
Vera
In effct, that is what I do - I use the Sporn when I don't have time for training, and a flat collar and lead when I do; and they know they are off for a good run when they wear their trail harnesses to pull like sledgedogs ::) ::)
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Or you could use two different types of equipment when you have time to practice properly and when you don't. Eg. have one harness and lead when you are 100% consistent and have a different type of harness/lead when you don't have time. Once your dog is fine with the "when you are consistent" harness, you can switch to that permanently.
Vera
In effct, that is what I do - I use the Sporn when I don't have time for training, and a flat collar and lead when I do; and they know they are off for a good run when they wear their trail harnesses to pull like sledgedogs ::) ::)
Thats a good idea, I'm training for loose lead walking with the collar and lead so don't want her to pull on that so I will use the harness and bungee lead when we need to go out walking as I know she is still in pulling frame of mind as she doesn't know any better yet. I was thinking, it might be a problem trying to drive everywhere just for a walk and sometimes it isn't suitable for me to have her off-lead all the time if there are dogs/people I don't want her to approach.
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I was thinking, it might be a problem trying to drive everywhere just for a walk and sometimes it isn't suitable for me to have her off-lead all the time if there are dogs/people I don't want her to approach.
I agree, I wouldn't ever let my dogs jump out of the car off-lead, no matter where we were - if I can park my car there, then there is always the risk of traffic :-\
My two have learnt to wait for their leads to be clipped on before they get out of the car, but we just don't have the option of an exercise session without using a lead at all ;)
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Yes but do you know why that is :-\ I found that out about sweepie, it is because they do not find us one bit interesting and have no inclination to do or listen to one thing we ask of them, once you have mastered the art of making yourself the most irrisistable exciting thing to them, then you have cracked it ;)
That is exactly what the trainer said to me (and for those of you think it could have been the same trainer it definately wasn't )
I wish it was quite as easy as that... someone please tell me how to make myself as interesting and irresitible to my lurchers as a running bunny or fox... Any suggestions very welcome... >:D :005:
Ill give you my trainers number :005:
Or infact, ask Top Barks, look at the way his dogs pay attention to him, IMO looking at his videos etc he is the main attraction in their lives (well thats how they appear) :-\ :D
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I like to think I am the center of their world when out and with Douglas that might be the case but the other two not so.
I really have to work Oliver and Bayley when out which is why you shouldn't be surprised if Bayley turns up to any COL meets on a harness and longline or flexi as I have at the new forest meets I've been on.
If I want to chat it's what i have to do.
My OH has stopped coming on walks as I am forever having to work him to keep his focus when off lead so never get to stroll and have a chat.
Bayley's hunting instincts are very strong, Oliver's recall's cr*p and Douglas is bang on and doesn't range to far but it can be difficult keeping an eye on three at once and chatting.
Still I guess my control aint too bad ;) :005:
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I like to think I am the center of their world when out and with Douglas that might be the case but the other two not so.
I really have to work Oliver and Bayley when out which is why you shouldn't be surprised if Bayley turns up to any COL meets on a harness and longline or flexi as I have at the new forest meets I've been on.
If I want to chat it's what i have to do.
My OH has stopped coming on walks as I am forever having to work him to keep his focus when off lead so never get to stroll and have a chat.
Bayley's hunting instincts are very strong, Oliver's recall's cr*p and Douglas is bang on and doesn't range to far but it can be difficult keeping an eye on three at once and chatting.
Still I guess my control aint too bad ;) :005:
but Ollie is also lovely to snuggle as my OH can testify....he and OH became great chums on that walk (was nothing to do with the venison sausage OH had in his pocket, oh no!)
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I shall remember that when you've got a string of women chasing after you at Crufts :rofl1: ;) :005: ph34r
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I shall remember that when you've got a string of women chasing after you at Crufts :rofl1: ;) :005: ph34r
:o :o :005:
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I shall remember that when you've got a string of women chasing after you at Crufts :rofl1: ;) :005: ph34r
:o :o :005:
Would be worth going just to watch that Heeeee
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I really don't like the half choke collars when they are used to yank a dog back for pulling (not suggesting anyone on here does this) but I have seen this done and it made me grimace. :-\
Both the full check collar and the half-check are designed to be used through the use of a corrective "jerk", but neither should "yank" the dog; the aversive with the half-check is the noise it makes and an increased pressure (not tightening) around the neck acting to correct the dogs behaviour .
The technique of using these collars needs to be taught properly and the handler trained to use it correctly - otherwise it can become uncomfortable or stressful for the dog :-\
Then it has its place if taught properly though this wasn't what I saw - it looked harsh and uncomfortable for the dog. :-\
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I wish it was quite as easy as that... someone please tell me how to make myself as interesting and irresitible to my lurchers as a running bunny or fox... Any suggestions very welcome... >:D :005:
From my limited experience, and from watching others, I think it is more to do with the 'bond' between the dog and human...partly built up by the human being exciting and interesting to be round?
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I shall remember that when you've got a string of women chasing after you at Crufts :rofl1: ;) :005: ph34r
I don't know what you mean michelle ph34r
Maybe i might go wearing a hat and dark glasses to stop being mobbed for behaviour advice round the cocker rings :005:
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Even I can't compete sometimes with natural urges and instincts but i do my best.
I shall remember that when you've got a string of women chasing after you at Crufts :rofl1: ;) :005: ph34r
I don't know what you mean michelle ph34r
Maybe i might go wearing a hat and dark glasses to stop being mobbed for behaviour advice round the cocker rings :005:
Mark - i'm sure they would still track you down :shades: :005:
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now i'm worried :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :005:
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as they say
be afraid, be very afraid (http://www.compumess.nl/daf/smileys/sm1/schrik.gif) :005:
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I had Daisy's half check collar on today as she came with me to walk customers dogs and I had a real good look at it, I cant see anyway of that collar hurting her as the choke chainy bit is at the top and closes on itself not her :-\
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Yes, that's true - but the practicalities of modern life mean that most people have to use a lead to get to an exercise area, and the old adage is "never train a wired dog, only train a tired dog".
I want to let my dogs run and get rid of some energy so that they are in the best possible frame of mind before I train them;
Errrm sorry but why would you want to get rid of a dogs energy before you train :-\
I would have thought that you should be able to train a dog with this high energy, as well as after it has let off some energy
Surely if you only ever train after they have let off some energy you ain't gonna be able to control / train them if and when needed when they are full of energy
I train ALL my dogs both when they are full of energy and after they have let some out - as this was the advice I got of a fantastic well known trainer (before I had cockers, and also since I have had cockers)
Wow - thats impressive ;) I would stand absolutely no chance of training Dax at the moment when he is highly excited :005: I admire you if you have managed to get your dogs to listen when they are full of energy - but then Dax is only a baby and he is doing fine so far :luv: :luv: My philosophy is not to set him up to make mistakes and when he is distracted he makes mistakes :-\ he is learning fast and I'll stick at it - lots of hard work to come but it will be well worth it :blink:
I was interested in the comment on harnesses and conformation :-\ having changed over from a collar to a harness I'm a bit worried that this could damage his conformation :-\ it seems that whatever I use could result in damage when Dax pulls - working on avoiding this but it is quite difficult at times so I am going to get the bungee lead and hope this will help :blink: