CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Feeding => Topic started by: tiamaria on May 05, 2008, 12:22:46 AM
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I have had Charley on Butchers and mixer, his poos are just terrible, so am ready to swap to dry food. I have read many threads and been on the websites of all the ones suggested, the closest stockist (round the corner from me, and they deliver free) is the BARF, but i must say after being on their website, i am a little confused with what it actually is?? I keep reading the word 'raw'. The next closest is JWB, my vets sell it - but now i dont know which to choose? Any info would be helpful.
thanks
maria
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BARF is a raw diet, it stands for Bones And Raw Food. It's a completely different thing from dry kibble. With a BARF diet the dog eats raw meat, bones and a small amount of veggies and offal :P
If you are thinking of having a go with it you'll find many COLers on BARF and lots of threads about it. You will definitely want to read and research it (and I think you'll be convinced of the benefits ;)) before you jump in.
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As spanielcrazy said BARF & JWB are two completely different things.
I feed BARF to 3 of my dogs. During the course of a week they are fed raw chicken wings, raw lamb breast (ribs), beef mince, tinned sardines, raw egg with shells, heart, kidney, liver, tripe, turkey necks, chicken backs (carcasses) and pulped raw veg. The also have some supplements usually Dorwest Keepers Mix & Salmon Oil.
I found out about it on this forum and read a lot of threads about it. I then went and read some of the books recommended and did my own research. In the beginning it did take me a bit to get my head round it and to get organised. I also had to buy a new big freezer!
I've have tried my hardest not to feed my dogs additives, colourants etc after my Lab used to bounce off the wall when she'd had them. So I was attracted to feeding BARF and knowing exactly what they were eating.
It does take a bit more organising than buying a bag of kibble but for me its well worth it but I do understand that its not for everyone.
JWB is James Wellbeloved dried kibble. It is one of the better kibbles and doesn't not contain additives, colourings, preservatives and rubbish that some of the mass produced brands do. You can purchase JWB online to be delivered at home.
Other options along those lines are Burns, Arden Grange, Autarky. All of those can too be purchased online for delivery.
JWB - http://www.wellbeloved.com/
Burns - http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/
Arden Grange - http://www.ardengrange.com/
Autarky - http://www.autarky-foods.com/
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I honestly didnt know you could feed raw food to dogs ::) ::) although when you think about it logically, what did they used to eat before tinned/dried dog food, makes sense raw food. I always used to get meat bags from my butchers to feed our first dog - but i used to cook them (smelt awful), i think i need to do some research on this. I really dont like just giving him dried dog food, cant bear to look at him while he crunches them for his breakfast. I bought some tins of sardines for him and he loved the first tin, but again i dont know how much to give him weekly, iv just given him a raw egg and oh i loved watching him egg something he really enjoyed. (nice shell mess all over the floor now) :005: I think a trip to the library to read into this is called for.
Is the BARF just frozen raw food that you could get from the butchers?? Are all the raw meats you mentioned from BARF? Sorry if i sound a little silly, but im trying to get my head around it all.
Thanks for your replies :luv:
My partner is here now, just wait till i tell him Charley has had a raw egg - with shell :D :D
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Don't worry it confused the heck out of me when I first looked into it as well ;)....BARF isn't a brand of food like JWB or Burns etc. that you can buy in a shop, but a home made diet - as others have said it stands for Bones And Raw Food. . It's also known as 'RAW feeding'. Do a search and you'll find lots of threads on here.
Try this link for some info to begin with, then you can decide if it's for you, or not!
http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/showcontent.toy?contentnid=7232
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I have done nothing but read about feeding dogs a raw diet today - and i really do think its the best way to go for Charley. I must say i am rather worried as some things are very contradicting (chicken wings and vegetables for example) I am going to do some more research, speak to local butchers regarding supplies, look into costing etc before i decide definitely. There is a local meat place that a friend gets all her meat for her family quite cheaply, i will give her a ring to see where it is and maybe have a ride to see whats available. I am so excited and worried at the same time. ::)
Can i just say a big thanks for all your replies! :D :D
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Can me and Charley just say a big thank you to everyone on here. You have introduced me to another world - so far my charley has eaten sardines, raw egg, and is now happily chewing away on a raw carrot! I feel so much better that he isnt just sitting eating that boring food that i put down for him ever day - as for the tinned food, dont even go there poop wise! I love this little dog so much, and his happiness is mine! :luv: :luv:
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I am so excited and worried at the same time. ::)
We all were when we started out! :005: The first time I fed chicken wings I practically had the car running and the vet pre-dialed on the mobile ph34r :lol2:
It's kind of confusing at first, but then it becomes very easy, especially if you have just one dog, just buy a bit extra of whatever you are getting for yourself.
Have you read this thread?
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=22308.0
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I have saved the thread so i can keep reading a bit at a time!
Yes my partners face when i told him about the chicken wings, it was a 'oh no you cant give him chicken bones' look - bless him! But i fear il be the same as you when i do it for the first time, i think im going to gradually introduce BARF as im still unsure what to do - maybe just the odd bit of raw bones/meat until im a bit more confident. Well of course if thats allowed???
Just a big thank you to you all for opening my eyes about all this. And hopefully a bigger woof/thanks from Charley!
Were all off to Rivington Pike for a nice walk. Im sure il be back with more of my questions ::) sorry
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As long as you don't feed raw in the same meal as dried food, there shouldn't be a problem phasing BARF in - we currently give Honey a couple of chicken wings and a couple of eggs a week, but are looking at doing mornings kibble (mainly in her treat ball to keep her occupied when I head out to work) and evenings BARF. I just need to figure out exactly what I need to get her!!! :D
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Kibble and raw meat are digested at different rates and it is often recommended that there should be 12 hours between the two. It very much depends on the dog. My cocker adapted to a complete BARF menu without any tummy/bowel upset almost straight away but my older dogs took quite a bit longer and had to be done at a slower pace.
There are people who continually part feed BARF and part feed Kibble, particularly if your dog is likely to go into kennels. I haven't come across a kennel yet that will feed BARF! :005:
There is often confusion with chicken bones. You must never feed a dog cooked chicken bones. Cooking makes the bones brittle and therefore they could splinter causing damage to your dog. However raw chicken bones are ok to feed your dog. Until I started raw feeding I'd not got intimate with chicken bones but I discovered that I (confirmed weakling) could snap a wing bone.
Like was said earlier I had 50 fits when I first fed a wing to Barney, I even fished it out of his mouth half way through eating it. :o I panicked. :embarassed: Five minutes later I took a deep breath and gave him it back and he was fine. ::)
It is perfectly possible for a dog to choke on a piece of kibble, in the early days I kept that fact in mind!
I struggled with amounts in the beginning and had a lot of help from my marvellous friend RhonaW who had swapped to BARF a few weeks earlier.
A couple of key facts; a dog does not need to get everything he needs nutritionally in the space of a day look to do it over the space of a week.
Secondly on how much to feed. Books give you basic ratio's which are a good starting point, after that its as simple as if they are getting a bit skinny feed them more or if they are getting a bit weighty feed them less.
If I think of anything else vital I'll come back!
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Hi there....Lola is partially BARF fed.
I get her chicken wings from Sainsbury's basics range. OH went today and got two packs one was £1.07 and one was £1.10, they had 10/11 wings in each - I then freeze them.
Its cheaper than my local pet suppliers bags of frozen pet grade chicken wings :o
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im just going to do my research and try to get my head around all the info :005: i :005: dont want to jump in head first then find out in a months time, that its way to expensive or impossible to get the things charley needs. I think im scared too, i remember feeling this way once id weaned my son - i felt that his nutrition was solely in my hands if you understand what i mean? :005:
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I started out buying from the supermarket, butcher and PAH. With four dogs, a Lab, Golden Retriever, English Cocker and American Cocker it cost me about £5 more a week to feed them.
I use Landywoods now, a company that supplies meat for animals. A draw back is that the minimum order amount is £50 and you get a lot for your money so I had to buy a new big freezer. To give you an idea £55 will feed my four dogs for six weeks. All that is added to that are tins of sardines, veg and eggs.
I couldn't find a butcher that would supply me lamb breast so I used to feed pork ribs instead.
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One of the reasons I feed a mixed BARF/kibble diet is that it gives me reassurance that my dogs are getting the nutrition they need from the kibble, even if I don't quite get the BARF right ;)
I feed a lot of raw rabbit; it is free, or very cheap, from locals who shoot for pest-control (especially now I have taught myself to skin/gut them!) This has the advantage of being wild and therefore free-range and reasonably organic :D I try and avoid buying intensively reared meat; which includes the petgrade and budget supermarket brands ph34r
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One of the reasons I feed a mixed BARF/kibble diet is that it gives me reassurance that my dogs are getting the nutrition they need from the kibble, even if I don't quite get the BARF right ;)
Ditto.
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One of the reasons I feed a mixed BARF/kibble diet is that it gives me reassurance that my dogs are getting the nutrition they need from the kibble, even if I don't quite get the BARF right ;)
Ditto.
Same here, I have only recently changed to a part Barf diet as was concerned that I would not be providing the full amount of nutrients, also my freezer was not quite big enough for a full Barf diet. Maybe once I have got my head around Barf more fully and invest in a larger freezer I may change to a full Barf diet..I know Romey would certainly enjoy that.
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One of the reasons I feed a mixed BARF/kibble diet is that it gives me reassurance that my dogs are getting the nutrition they need from the kibble, even if I don't quite get the BARF right ;)
Ditto.
And same for me too. Mine are on half Arden Grange and half raw meaty bones. I did have Alfie on a full barf diet for a while but changed him back to half and half for various reasons, this being one of them.
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if you've weaned a child, you'll manage with the dog! Just think "variety", that way he will get everything he needs over a wide space of time - you'll see lots and lots of benefits too!
I only feed BARF, Bracken has never had "dog food" or kibble since she set foot in the house last July. I'm confident that she gets all she needs through the diet.
I have just helped my retired aunt get her yorkie onto BARF and she is ringing me every few days to tell me how well he is doing on it! :D His breath, wind problems and poo problems have all improved dramatically.
Go for it - you know it makes sense! ;)
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Yes im definitely going to do the switch - just putting it on hold at the moment with charleys health. Hopefully il be back in a few weeks to mither some more over chicken wings etc :005:
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i didn't like the idea of raw food at first . i have always had collies and they were fed dry food, but fuse has had trouble with anal galnds since he has gone 1/2 and 1/2 he has improved his teeth are great as well. he l;oves raw chicken wings dones and tripe. i don't like tripe smell is yuk..... he gets a bit of jwb for breakkie and raw for tea. if found if i fed him at tea time he didn't always eat it so i split the meals he get a raw eye 2 x a week. and i was amazed when i read people gave the cockers eggs with shells on.... i tried it and he loves it ..... also gave him a bit of raw rabbbit which he butcher had he loves it bones and all..... im a raw cvonvert after all if the dogs were hunting they would take the game raw feathers and all ...... im a raw convert thanks to COL
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Well iv just called in to my local (may i say friendly butchers) and told them of my plans. They said they could supply me with bones etc for Charley - and gave me some lamb ribs, as they close for holidays today for 2 weeks. So iv said il prepare a list of what kinds of bones etc id be needing on a weekly basis for them to save for me. Only thing is - im a bit unsure myself - i know that no weight baring bones, which they laughed at me when i called them arms and legs! :005:
Do you think i should give Charley one of these ribs as a treat for being a poorly boy?? :luv: :luv: :luv:
Too late, iv given him one - now im following him round panicking, hes made a little yelpy kinda noise a few times. But why is he running away from me with it??? He wont come anywhere near me at all! :'(
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Too late, iv given him one - now im following him round panicking, hes made a little yelpy kinda noise a few times. But why is he running away from me with it??? He wont come anywhere near me at all! :'(
He's probably worried you're going to take it off him!!! :005: Seriously, though, it is a sign he is liking what he's got and isn't going to risk having it taken off him!
I wouldn't worry about whines (unless he is in pain) - Honey often whines with excitement!!!
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He came and sat by my feet a bit later. Well once there was no meat left on it :005: Is he supposed to eat everything, bone and all?? Because hes just eaten the meat crunched the bone then left it outside!
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I once went to a breed club seminar. The morning was led by a highly qualified vet from a Scottish university talking about lymphoma. The afternoon was led by an enthusiastic springer man throwing chicken wings to his three canine helpers, and extolling the virtues of BARF.
In the question and answer session later, the Scottish vet was asked what he thought of the BARF diet. He replied that the dog food manufacturers thoroughly research what suits dogs best, and what the exact dietary needs of dogs are. He had a healthy eighteen year old terrier at home fed exclusively on kibble. He said that he would not feed a BARF diet.
For more than a dozen years now I have fed all my dogs on Nutro, an imported manufactured dog food, and little else. Whilst the average lifespan of water spaniels is about eight years, I have one still working on shoots in his twelfth year, and winning veteran in breed at Crufts this year. I have just lost a cocker at almost fifteen years, and her two eleven year daughters are hale and hearty.
I shall be sticking to Nutro, especially as thirty years ago I chopped the top of my thumb off, by hacking breast of lamb into inch square pieces for the dogs, even before the term BARF was invented!
John
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One of the reasons I feed a mixed BARF/kibble diet is that it gives me reassurance that my dogs are getting the nutrition they need from the kibble, even if I don't quite get the BARF right ;)
I
Im the same :D Goose my runny bummy baby has never looked back with part Barf/kibble ive been extremely impressed :blink:
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I once went to a breed club seminar. The morning was led by a highly qualified vet from a Scottish university talking about lymphoma. The afternoon was led by an enthusiastic springer man throwing chicken wings to his three canine helpers, and extolling the virtues of BARF.
In the question and answer session later, the Scottish vet was asked what he thought of the BARF diet. He replied that the dog food manufacturers thoroughly research what suits dogs best, and what the exact dietary needs of dogs are. He had a healthy eighteen year old terrier at home fed exclusively on kibble. He said that he would not feed a BARF diet.
For more than a dozen years now I have fed all my dogs on Nutro, an imported manufactured dog food, and little else. Whilst the average lifespan of water spaniels is about eight years, I have one still working on shoots in his twelfth year, and winning veteran in breed at Crufts this year. I have just lost a cocker at almost fifteen years, and her two eleven year daughters are hale and hearty.
I shall be sticking to Nutro, especially as thirty years ago I chopped the top of my thumb off, by hacking breast of lamb into inch square pieces for the dogs, even before the term BARF was invented!
John
I think this debate could go on forever as to what they should eat. I just know that i cant stand to look my dog in the eyes while he crunches them pale looking buscuits while i sit and eat my toast and jam in a morning, or when the family are sitting eating grilled chicken in an evening - giving him a bit of variety for his meals cant be such a bad thing? Although i do understand the dietary needs, but if im giving my dog good food that he built to eat and enjoys and thrives off, il be less inclined to offer him titbits in sympathy, thus keeping him a little healthier.
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I shall be sticking to Nutro, especially as thirty years ago I chopped the top of my thumb off, by hacking breast of lamb into inch square pieces for the dogs, even before the term BARF was invented!
John
I sliced the top off my thumb 30 years ago after opening a tin of winalot wet stinky meat whilst feeding my mums dogs :005:
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I shall be sticking to Nutro, especially as thirty years ago I chopped the top of my thumb off, by hacking breast of lamb into inch square pieces for the dogs, even before the term BARF was invented!
John
I sliced the top off my thumb 30 years ago after opening a tin of winalot wet stinky meat whilst feeding my mums dogs :005:
:005: :005:silly :005:
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I once went to a breed club seminar. The morning was led by a highly qualified vet from a Scottish university talking about lymphoma. The afternoon was led by an enthusiastic springer man throwing chicken wings to his three canine helpers, and extolling the virtues of BARF.
In the question and answer session later, the Scottish vet was asked what he thought of the BARF diet. He replied that the dog food manufacturers thoroughly research what suits dogs best, and what the exact dietary needs of dogs are. He had a healthy eighteen year old terrier at home fed exclusively on kibble. He said that he would not feed a BARF diet.
For more than a dozen years now I have fed all my dogs on Nutro, an imported manufactured dog food, and little else. Whilst the average lifespan of water spaniels is about eight years, I have one still working on shoots in his twelfth year, and winning veteran in breed at Crufts this year. I have just lost a cocker at almost fifteen years, and her two eleven year daughters are hale and hearty.
I shall be sticking to Nutro, especially as thirty years ago I chopped the top of my thumb off, by hacking breast of lamb into inch square pieces for the dogs, even before the term BARF was invented!
John
There have been many a debate on the pro's and con's of feeding BARF and many other commercial foods come to think of it. Rather than have yet another one it might be worth doing a search for other BARF threads for those interested reading more.
Everyone has there own ideas and opinions on what they want to feed their dogs. There are many, many options from commercial foods, dry and wet, to home cooked food and BARF is just another option for people to look in to and decide to give it a go or disregard it.
There have been many accounts in the past of dogs with health problems that traditional food didn't help yet BARF turned the dog around. There are also dogs that tried BARF and it didn't suit them.
Each to their own. ;)
Is he supposed to eat everything, bone and all?? Because hes just eaten the meat crunched the bone then left it outside!
Yes he is supposed to eat it all! But that will come in time. ;) It took my Golden Retriever 50 minutes to eat 1 chicken wing for the first few meals and he was an adult! They all eat their bones differently too. My Lab virtually inhales them, has a few crunches and they're gone. My American Cocker strips all the meat off a rib bones, then "plays" with it a bit before eventually eating the bone.
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Yes he is supposed to eat it all! But that will come in time. ;) It took my Golden Retriever 50 minutes to eat 1 chicken wing for the first few meals and he was an adult! They all eat their bones differently too. My Lab virtually inhales them, has a few crunches and they're gone. My American Cocker strips all the meat off a rib bones, then "plays" with it a bit before eventually eating the bone.
Oh good. I dont think his little teeth were strong enough for it :005: I dont think im that concerned with the meat side of BARF as iv got a good idea of what it is he will eat now, im more concerned with the veg side, especially reading the thread about herbs. I supose i just need to bite the bullet and go for it otherwise il never know how to do it! Thanks for the advice :D :luv:
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a rib bone might be rather heavy going to start with, wings will crunch down more eaily, and as he gets stronger in the jaw, you will find that ribs go down as easily!
I agree tho, the debate could go on forever and people will feed what suits them and their dog at the end of the day, but I still hold with "variety is the spice of life" ....... ;)
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I once went to a breed club seminar. The morning was led by a highly qualified vet from a Scottish university talking about lymphoma. The afternoon was led by an enthusiastic springer man throwing chicken wings to his three canine helpers, and extolling the virtues of BARF.
In the question and answer session later, the Scottish vet was asked what he thought of the BARF diet. He replied that the dog food manufacturers thoroughly research what suits dogs best, and what the exact dietary needs of dogs are. He had a healthy eighteen year old terrier at home fed exclusively on kibble. He said that he would not feed a BARF diet.
For more than a dozen years now I have fed all my dogs on Nutro, an imported manufactured dog food, and little else. Whilst the average lifespan of water spaniels is about eight years, I have one still working on shoots in his twelfth year, and winning veteran in breed at Crufts this year. I have just lost a cocker at almost fifteen years, and her two eleven year daughters are hale and hearty.
I shall be sticking to Nutro, especially as thirty years ago I chopped the top of my thumb off, by hacking breast of lamb into inch square pieces for the dogs, even before the term BARF was invented!
John
Everyone feeds their dog what suits them and their dogs best; in terms of convenience and ethics ;)
There has been no independent research comparing processed food with BARF feeding for animals, although there is lots of anecdotal evidence that supports both types of feeding - and others too, such as home cooked and other types of raw diet ;)
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One of the reasons I feed a mixed BARF/kibble diet is that it gives me reassurance that my dogs are getting the nutrition they need from the kibble, even if I don't quite get the BARF right ;)
Reputable manufacturers research and produce a balanced diet which contains all the requirements for healthy maintenance. By also feeding elements of BARF at the same time, couldn't this alter the balance in a "balanced diet"?
Not sure how much this matters. Most dogs seem to do well on what they are used to. But if you find something that suits, stick with it.
John
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a rib bone might be rather heavy going to start with, wings will crunch down more eaily, and as he gets stronger in the jaw, you will find that ribs go down as easily!
I agree tho, the debate could go on forever and people will feed what suits them and their dog at the end of the day, but I still hold with "variety is the spice of life" ....... ;)
He seems to pick the meat off and try to crunch the bone, i have taken it off him now. Il stay away from ribs for the time being - iv given him his first chicken wing this morning, and was surprised at how quick he ate it, only nipped in to make a cup of tea, went back outside to watch him and he was licking the floor! :005: I certainly feel better giving him bits of variety, im going to attempt some veg mixing tomorrow. If i write a list of what iv got later will someone tell me if its ok? Im just using what i have for the guinea pigs at the moment. I have to go to rugby training now so il compile it shortly.
Thanks
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He seems to pick the meat off and try to crunch the bone, i have taken it off him now. Il stay away from ribs for the time being - iv given him his first chicken wing this morning, and was surprised at how quick he ate it, only nipped in to make a cup of tea, went back outside to watch him and he was licking the floor! :005: I certainly feel better giving him bits of variety, im going to attempt some veg mixing tomorrow. If i write a list of what iv got later will someone tell me if its ok? Im just using what i have for the guinea pigs at the moment. I have to go to rugby training now so il compile it shortly.
Thanks
Well he mastered chicken wings much faster than my adult Golden Retreiver! :005: "Max you should be embarrased with yourself, 50 minutes indeed!" :lol2:
Don't forget you can add fruit too. ;) Off the top of my head this is what I put in my mix:
Red, Green, Yellow Peppers
Tomatoes
Spinach
Pineapple
Apple
Pears
Celery
Carrots
White Cabbage
Swede
Brocoli
I also give them Dorwest Keepers Mix every day & Salmon Oil as staples. I sometimes add other supplements in too.
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well, it varies, what I put in mine but the following get used regularly:
Celery
pepper
apple
pear
tomato
broccoli
spinach
watercress
mung beans
carrots
parsnips
spring greesn/cabbage/savoy etc
swede
try and do as Gordon Ramsay says "eat seasonal" ;)