CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Nicola on January 25, 2009, 03:09:46 PM
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Since I've had her Tilly has had a periodic shoulder injury which causes her to limp quite badly on her right front leg when it flares up. I don't know what originally caused it but it strikes maybe once every few months and usually only lasts for a day. We were out yesterday throwing a ball for them in a stubble field so she was really running fast and after about an hour and a half I noticed she was limping and by the time we got back to the car she was on 3 legs and we had to lift her into the car and then carry her into the house. The thing with her is that she doesn't show it when she's hurt, if I hadn't noticed her limping and kept throwing the ball she'd have kept running after it even though she was obviously in pain ::) She seems to have hurt it more badly than usual this time as she's still limping on it very noticeably today so obviously I haven't walked her but she shows no signs of pain when I press, rub and flex her leg and shoulder and she doesn't seem unhappy or out of sorts.
So really the question is what, if anything, should I do about it? I've mentioned it to the vet before and they said it's most likely a muscular thing but should I take her in tomorrow and see what they say this time or is there not really anything they can do? The thing is with it being so recurrent is it possible that it's not just a muscle strain but something more serious so should I ask for a second opinion? I don't like her ending up hobbling around like this on a regular basis and I don't want to leave it now and her end up with arthritis in her shoulder or something in a few years but I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it. Are there any physios on COL?!
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Since this is so recurrent, and it seems Tilly should be fit enough that her muscles should be well toned, I'd be inclined to x-ray her to rule out OCD
Are you sure it is in the shoulder?
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I had recurring problems with Wilf re a limp that my vet couldn't get to the bottom of (nothing on X-ray) then he eventually referred me to a vet who rehabilitates dogs after injury or surgery - he gets acupunture and other types of physio - and she managed to diagnose his problem that others had missed completely (a physio I saw a couple of times was still thinking it was his leg/hip yet it turned out to be his back). I much prefer now to see a vet who specialises 1st rather than get a diagnosis off a physio/chiropracter etc. but that's my own personal experience.
I have been told by a variety of different vets that a vet who also specialises in acupunture is better at 'visualising' muscle structure etc. than other vets (when there is no x-ray or similar evidence to see).
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My lot all have canine massage treatment for muscular problems and it's been excellent in popping in hamstrings etc... She's more likely to pick up things than the vet
We're a bit far from you, but you could contact Nat to see if she knows a local contact...
http://www.k9massage.co.uk/
They also have a reiki session too, Jasper goes mad when Nat comes, he's lining up for treatment :shades:
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That's the thing I suppose, I'm not at all sure it's her shoulder, I'm really just assuming it is as that's what it looks like to me :-\ It could be anything though from her ankle joint to her back. I think I'll make a vet appointment for her tomorrow and see if they'll x-ray her and/or refer us to a specialist if possible to see if I can get her some physio or alternative treatment. I'll have a look at that website as well Jenny, thanks ;)
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There are sooo many things that can cause front leg lameness that it would be worthwhile to get a specialist, or a 2nd opinion or some xrays
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Poor Tills. She had that once while you were travelling, was fine the next day.
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Poor Tills. She had that once while you were travelling, was fine the next day.
It usually goes away quickly but she seems to have done a job on it this time as she's still hopping on 3 legs now so that's been over 24 hours which is the longest lame period she's had since I've had her. The parquet floors aren't helping either and nor is the fact that she doesn't appear to have the sense she was born with and keeps trying to jump on and off the sofa and run around with Rodaidh regardless, she's a nightmare! ::) I'm definitely taking her to the vet in the next couple of days and will ask for x-rays or a specialist referral or both.
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Heidi's recurrent lameness was affecting different legs, turns out that it was the legs on opposite diagonal which is how the muscles work. sorted out the porblem and hope that won't be too much of a problem again ;) There is no way a vet would of found it in a ordinary appointment as she probably wouldn't be lame at the appointment ::)
Don't suppose the muscular side or the anatomy would show in xrays either. Nat's been working on all sorts of dogs including working gun dogs
Hope you can sort Tilly out ;)
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This happened to my last cocker, Sophie.
The first time it happened she was 2 years old, we rushed her to the Vet and he xrayed her. He then told us that she had arthritic changes, told us she would have to be on medication for the rest of her life (it worked out a £8 a week, not a lot today but this was 16 years ago) and that she must have virtually no exercise again, ever.
We came home and I broke my heart. Me and OH sat at the kitchen table with these tablets on the table between us and looked at Sophie, who by now was showing no sign whatsoever of there being anything wrong and was bounding round the house. OH picked the tablets up and put them down the toilet saying that she was not having them and if she got arthritis in later life, we would deal with it then. She didn't have one of the tablets.
The problem did happen again, we worked out it was when she was running and she swerved quickly. What we did when it happened was we carried her home, if near enough (she was only tiny), OH sat her on his knee and massaged her shoulder for about an hour, then we took her a walk up the road. She started off on 3 legs and by the time we got to the top of the road (8 houses) she was walking perfectly on 4 legs.
She lived until she was 14 years of age and was still walking up to 7 miles at a time until about 3 weeks before she died, with no trace of arthritis.
By the way, when I next went back to the vets I was really worried what they would say (not as stroppy as I am now!). I saw a different vet, he looked at the notes, looked at Sophie, back at the notes, back at Sophie, and never mentioned the problem. Nor did any of the other vets we saw, including the one who diagnosed her. If it was now I would want answers, I have always said it was a trial of a drug. You may wonder why I kept going to the same practice, but to be honest its a brilliant practice, the vet in question was the one who had to put Sophie to sleep and he was absolutely wonderful with both her and us. I still go there with Ellie and, strange though it may sound, really trust them, although I would not be afraid to speak up now.
Anyway, I really hope that Tilly's problem is just like Sophie's. As Sophie got older and stopped dashing about so much, the problem stopped happening.
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The problem did happen again, we worked out it was when she was running and she swerved quickly.
This is the biggest cause of injury; a swerving or twisting motion :-\
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The problem did happen again, we worked out it was when she was running and she swerved quickly.
This is the biggest cause of injury; a swerving or twisting motion :-\
This happened to Wilf when his body flipped and twisted when he collided with a much larger dog coming side on at him - he had whiplash (in his lower back).
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The problem did happen again, we worked out it was when she was running and she swerved quickly.
This is the biggest cause of injury; a swerving or twisting motion :-\
That's very likely as she's a total ball obsessive, she runs flat out and does all kinds of jumps and acrobatics to catch the ball. As a quick update I've got her an appointment on Wednesday, our usual vet who I really like isn't in today or tomorrow.
Thanks for the post Countrygirl, that does sound similar so I'll see what the vet says.
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If a vet cannot find anything conclusive, my next plan of action is always a McTimoney Chiropractor (they are different to normal chiropractor, much more gentle). Our pyrenees (9 years old) has arthritis, is a bit stiff on his back leg and limps on his front leg after a long walk. The option we have is not to exercise him or very little, which leaves him bored and frustrated... or exercise him normally and help him any way we can. We found that hydrotherapy was excellent for him, however, it gave him skin problems and he hated it, so it is not an option anymore. Going to the chiropractor regularly (every two months) helps him enormously and resulted in him not needing any painkillers until very recently when it became more of a problem - which could be due to not having gone to the chiropractor for 6 months... Now we are back on track, I am hoping that things will sort itself out.
Troy was x-rayed a couple of years ago, and nothing really showed. My vet and I decided not to x-ray anymore as Troy isn't too good with anaesthetics... So we just manage his joint problems now with supplements, chiropractor and if necessary painkillers. It gives him a good quality of life in his senior years.
Vera
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ph34r I know it's different but I get an inflamed shoulder ph34r , joint strain that then leads to that. Could it be that's why it's lasting, the same thing? Perhaps there is some homeopathic treatment if so.
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ph34r I know it's different but I get an inflamed shoulder ph34r , joint strain that then leads to that. Could it be that's why it's lasting, the same thing? Perhaps there is some homeopathic treatment if so.
It could be... do you know what causes it Vicky? What's the treatment for it?
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Basically straining it and not giving it enough rest, however straining it can be changing gear or sleeping on it funny and not resting it can be the same >:( :-\ I take anti-inflammitorys and apply the gel to help with the pain and try to go as steady as I can, it usually clears up anything from 2 days to 2 weeks, but it's recurring. Sorry, not much help actually am I :-\ but at least I know it's not arthritis or something terrible and not causing further damage.
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It's been a while since I updated this but Tilly's shoulder has gone again. I took her to the vet the last time and they referred her to a specialist in chiro/acupuncture who thought it was definitely her shoulder causing the problems and it was definitely muscular. Anyway, she had a couple of pushing and pulling chiro sessions and all seemed to be ok for a while. Until yesterday anyway when she went really badly lame again on the way home from our big walk. She was fine when we got back in the car and when we got home 20 minutes later she couldn't get out of the boot and was really broken down on the leg. I rang our normal vet and they said to rest her overnight and bring her in this morning. She's still limping today and we've just been to the vet but the thing with Tills is still that she doesn't show any signs of being in pain other than the limping. The vet was pushing, pulling, poking and prodding her and she just stood there stoically. The vet was actually laughing at one point and telling her not to be so brave and start crying when it hurt her :005: although she did also say that if all her patients were so good it would make her job a lot easier :luv: The vet could feel the tension in her shoulder muscles when she pushed really hard and said that she's definitely in pain but it would be a lot easier to feel what was up if she would yelp or flinch, at one point she was holding Tilly's head and pushing her neck around to each side so far that her nose nearly touched her shoulders and then right back so her chin was up in the air beyond the vertical and Tills still just stood without a murmur, I didn't know whether to be proud of her or frustrated with her :005:
Anyway the upshot is that she's now booked in for x-rays on Friday. They're going to do both front legs and her neck and back. What's worse for her though is that I'm under strict instructions that she's to have no exercise for 3 weeks!! :o ph34r :-\ And depending on what the x-rays show it could be longer. For a dog who is used to around 3 hours exercise a day and who gets 'antsy' to say the least when she thinks she's due a walk that is not going to be fun. I really doubt if she's going to be as patient about it as Rodaidh was ph34r As for the x-rays, the vet is sure there's no fracture present but they're going to look for changes or abnormalities in the joints I think, and also any signs of osteoarthritis so fingers crossed please that it isn't that :-\
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Brave Brave (but a little norty!) Tilly :luv: :luv: :luv: no exercise for 3 weeks :012: :012:
everything crossed that it's summat easily sorted - I don't envy you keeping one of the fittest working cockers in the world quiet for 3 weeks, and I know she won't be as accepting of rest as her little brother ph34r
Jarv sez that he wouldn't have been half as brave and would definitely told the V.E.T when it hurt...and very loudly too... ph34r
:bigarmhug:
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Aw poor brave Tilly, I hope the three weeks pass quickly for her and she’s soon back lugging tree trunks about the place :luv:. Brodie sends healing licks :luv: :luv:
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Vegas is the exact same! When Vegas went really lame, the vet poked, prodded, stretched and pulled every which way and that dog did not make a sound ::)
Hope all goes ok on Friday and the x-rays don't show up anything too serious. Don't envy the no exercise though!
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Aww Miss Tilly what have you been doing to yourself this time :luv: :luv:
I hope you get to the bottom of the problem soon NIcola- 3 weeks is really going to drag by if Tilly not getting her walks. {{{hugs to you both}}}
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Aww poor Tilly!
I hope the x-rays show something definitive so treatment can begin.....
Little Jessie hasnt had a walk now for 5 weeks.....and is desperate to go out but we have to stick to the rules! If sh doesnt stay calm we are going to have to get the crate out to confine her.....didnt want to do this but its for her own good whilst she is having her treatment!
Janey
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Awww Tills you poorly girl, hope Friday comes quickly for you and your Mum :luv:
(((Hugs to you both)))
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Poor Tilly - Gabby says she hopes she feels better soon. :luv: :luv:
Our Bengal Cat Amazon came in one night two years ago limping and not weight bearing on her right back leg. She jumped up onto the cabinet - where we keep her food (to keep out of the way of Kiwi - our Weimeraner at the time) and gobbled down her dinner. She still persisted to limp so I took her to the local vet (where I used to work) who pulled and pushed her leg in every direction. Amazon did not make a murmer and for a Bengal Cat this is very unusual. The vet administered an anti imflammatory and told us to bring her back in the morning if no better. In the morning she was crying to be let out but still limping so we took her back to the vet. I persuaded the vet that I would like an xray as although Amazon did not seem in any pain I really thought something was not right. The xray showed that her hip was fractured in three places and her femur was also fractured in two places. How on earth she did not show any signs of distress I do not know. :-\ :-\ She was operated on the next day and to save her leg they had to put in metal plates to basically hold her leg together - we call her the bionic cat now (who can still scale a 6 foot fence with no problems)!!!!!! We then had to keep her in a dogs crate for 8 weeks - a hugely impossible task with a cat who is only 5 generations from a wild cat.
The upshot of this story is that animals can be very resilient and it is always best to get them checked by xray - I think you have definately made the right decision to get Tilly xrayed.
I am sorry if I have rambled on a bit but I hope that you get a diagnosis on Tilly soon.
Big kisses to her from us all here in London xxxxxxxxx
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Brave Brave (but a little norty!) Tilly :luv: :luv: :luv: no exercise for 3 weeks :012: :012:
everything crossed that it's summat easily sorted - I don't envy you keeping one of the fittest working cockers in the world quiet for 3 weeks, and I know she won't be as accepting of rest as her little brother ph34r
Jarv sez that he wouldn't have been half as brave and would definitely told the V.E.T when it hurt...and very loudly too... ph34r
:bigarmhug:
Don't know how I missed this first time around but I hope you can get to the bottom of Tilly's problem very soon.
Another one here who doesn't envy the 3 weeks rest. :-\
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Thanks guys :-* Gabbycocker I'm glad Amazon is ok now but what an injury to get :o Tills is already wondering why we haven't been out for their big walk today, every time I get up she starts hopping around looking at me expectantly and even trying to do a very hobbly version of her spinning ::) I'm going to wait til OH gets home before I take Rodaidh out so she's not left on her tod, thank doG for the light evenings.
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Awwww poor princess fuzzy butt :'(
Big kisses from me and mine :-* :-* :-*
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What a shame....poor lamb. One hug for one dog named Tilly coming up. :luv:
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Poor Tilly and poor you Nicola. I hope you get a diagnosis from the x rays and that treatment can start to put her right.
I know how it feels when your dog has something that keeps recurring but is undiagnosed. William is still off agility and banned from stairs, jumping in and out of the car etc. because of whatever has given him intermittent pain in his back.
He's had some physiotherapy (we're lucky to live within easy driving distance of a fully qualified and highly recommended dog and horse physio) and she's sorted out a number of problems, but not sure that we've got to the real cause of it yet.
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Poor sausage :luv: Hope the x-rays show something and she makes a full recovery. Good luck for the next 3 weeks :-*
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Oh poor Tilly and poor you.
I hope they can sort her out, and I hope your 3 weeks of rest goes quickly, for both of you!
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Ooooh yikes 3 weeks....hope that flies by for you both :-*
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Bloomin heck! Poor Tilly.
Hope you get to the bottom of it once and for all, hopefully three weeks will pass quickly :blink:
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Poor Tilly, how brave is she to be pulled about by the Vet and not make a murmur. Ellie stops suddenly and holds her foot up if she stands on a rough leaf!
Hope the xrays show nothing serious and hope she is not too upset not being able to run around for 3 weeks. Good luck!
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3 weeks!!! Poor Tilly! I hope the 3 weeks fly by for you both :luv: :luv:
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Hi Nicola, and poor Tilly.
Do you have her insured? If yes, and the x-rays don't show anything but you're still having problems you could ask about getting some cross-sectional imaging done which would look at soft tissue as well as bone structures (CT or MR). I'm not sure but guess that the Glasgow vet school will have some scanners. I also once had a horse taken in to the vet school for some radionucleotide imaging for a recurrent and unexplained lameness (can't remember exactly what the scan was called).
Meantime, I'd be disciplined about following the rest instructions. It could be an injury that is just never quite healing before she pings it again. And once the 3 weeks is up be careful to build the exercise back up slowly, and don't let her go haring about on the first day.
There's a horse / canine physio down my way (Ayrshire) who maybe wouldn't be too far for you if it comes to that. I've copied their website address below in case it helps.
www.animalphysioscotland.freeserve.co.uk
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How is she today Nicola??
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Hi Nic,
Only just seen this, poor Tils :'( Hope you're able to get it sorted really quickly :-*
Good luck with the rest..... ph34r ph34r ph34r Maybe some colouring books and a rainy half term fun pack will keep her occupied for a bit? (Dave thinks they make superb chews ::) :005:)
x
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How is she today Nicola??
Bouncy ph34r ::) The Metacam seems to be doing its job, she's still limping a bit but she's raring to go and every time we move she goes mad thinking she's going for a walk. Short of velcroing her to the floor trying to stop her bouncing around and jumping on and off the sofas is impossible. As we don't have a garden it's a trip to the park across the road 4 times a day and Tills refuses to toilet on lead so I have to let her off and then she tries to run off to find sticks for me to throw for her. Ach well, I'm sure she'll calm down eventually... ph34r ph34r :lol2: Thanks for asking for her hun :-*
Thanks also for the advice Dkirkuk, she is insured and I'll definitely ask about the cross-sectional imaging as I do have a feeling that it's a soft tissue injury of some kind.
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Poor Tilly, I hope the x-rays show something that can be easily fixed. :-*
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How is she today Nicola??
Bouncy ph34r ::) The Metacam seems to be doing its job, she's still limping a bit but she's raring to go and every time we move she goes mad thinking she's going for a walk. Short of velcroing her to the floor trying to stop her bouncing around and jumping on and off the sofas is impossible. As we don't have a garden it's a trip to the park across the road 4 times a day and Tills refuses to toilet on lead so I have to let her off and then she tries to run off to find sticks for me to throw for her. Ach well, I'm sure she'll calm down eventually... ph34r ph34r :lol2: Thanks for asking for her hun :-*
DOnt kow whether I want xrays to show something or nothing- hate to think of Miss Tills in any pain or discomfort but really hope you get to the bottom of the problem and that there is an easy solution to it. Give her a squidge from Fred and I xxx
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How is she today Nicola??
Bouncy ph34r ::) The Metacam seems to be doing its job, she's still limping a bit but she's raring to go and every time we move she goes mad thinking she's going for a walk. Short of velcroing her to the floor trying to stop her bouncing around and jumping on and off the sofas is impossible. As we don't have a garden it's a trip to the park across the road 4 times a day and Tills refuses to toilet on lead so I have to let her off and then she tries to run off to find sticks for me to throw for her. Ach well, I'm sure she'll calm down eventually... ph34r ph34r :lol2: Thanks for asking for her hun :-*
DOnt kow whether I want xrays to show something or nothing- hate to think of Miss Tills in any pain or discomfort but really hope you get to the bottom of the problem and that there is an easy solution to it. Give her a squidge from Fred and I xxx
wot Lisa said
As I was stomping around the mud in drizzle today I was thinking of Tilly - she must think her throat has been cut with no proper runs :012: (and I can imagine what she's like every time you move ::) )
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Poor Tilly
I hope you get to the bottom of the problem really quickly so that you can get her on the road to recovery :-*
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Just remembered the other type of scan was some sort of cintigraphy (don't know if that's how you spell it).
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Aww poor Tilly...and poor you Nicola. But it will all turn out ok I'm sure. After what you went through with Rodaidh, you wll definitely find a way of coping and mending Tilly :luv:
Sorry I don't have any advice, but lots of positive thoughts :luv:
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Poor Tilly :luv: :luv: :luv: love and hugs to you both and hope that the 3 weeks fly by ( and I said flyby not fly ball tilly) lv Ann, Bailey and Minstrelxxxx
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aww nic what a worry. my old spaniel rags, his shoulder was v bad at age 3 through an injury that then became osteoarthritis. Id to keep him slim and not run him too much, he was in so much pain at 3 the vet said if I couldnt get on top of things he would have to be PTS. well rags died an old man. he was 14..
when he was about 11 the same vet for free xrayed him all over again as he was interested to see what was going on in his shoulder. basically he had no shoulder joint by then and the muscles were holding everything in place. But he was fine. he was lucky I had him tho he was keeper bred and if he had gone to another keeper he couldnt work for a living but he was a very happy pet and the love of my daughters life. :luv:
hoping its not arthritis but if it is its not the end of the world as old rags showed me.
big hugs to you and a wee skwish to tills. :luv: :luv:
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Poor Tilly and poor you :-*.
Hope its sorted soon
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Sorry to hear this Nicola, poor Tills, hope all works out ok :-*
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good luck for this morning
Thinking of Tilly and you :bouquet: :bouquet: :bouquet:
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Oh poor girl, i hope it all goes well today :luv:
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Thinking of you both, hope all goes well today :luv:
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gosh 3 weeks :o really feel for you both
hope all goes well today :blink:
Jo
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poor Tilly
Hurls and I are thinking of her :luv: he says he knows exactly what its like not having a garden and having to go to the toilet in parks across the road!!!
xxx
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Thanks guys, I dropped her off at 9 and I've taken Rodaidh for a walk so now I'm just sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. I hate this part!!
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Keeping my fingers crossed for you both.. waiting is horrible, hope you get some good news very soon :-* :-*
Hannah xxx
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Just seen this Nic - hope the results are OK and Tills can be sorted fast :-\
3 weeks rest - blimey, I think you will both be climbing the walls by the end of that :o :005: I guess you will be doing lots of clicker training to keep her busy ;)
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Thanks guys, I dropped her off at 9 and I've taken Rodaidh for a walk so now I'm just sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. I hate this part!!
Hope the phone rings soon- there is nothing worse than waiting!! Big squidges to Princess Fuzzy Butt a(and you n Dodie too) Hope I am checking on here later and the news is good xxxx
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I hate waiting for that phone to ring, I always end up ringing them! Hope she's home with you soon.
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Big hugs to you and Tilly. So sorry to hear about this. Hope the phone rings soon.
xxxx
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I hate waiting for that phone to ring, I always end up ringing them! Hope she's home with you soon.
Me too
Hope they don't keep you waiting much longer for news.
Sending big hugs for Tilly :luv:
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Just spoke to the vet, they haven't had a chance to look at the films yet but I have an appointment at 3.20 to go over them with the vet and bring her home. They tried sedating her but she wouldn't go out so she had to have a GA, they said she's fine but very woozy.
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Glad she's okay, hope the xrays bring positive news x
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Hope it is something simple and easy to treat xx :blink:
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Pleased to hear she's ok :-* Hope there's positive news at the vet :luv:
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Pleased to hear she's ok :-* Hope there's positive news at the vet :luv:
Me too x x
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Pleased to hear she's ok :-* Hope there's positive news at the vet :luv:
Me too x x
And me xxx
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Pleased to hear she's ok :-* Hope there's positive news at the vet :luv:
Me too x x
me too - have to go somewhere where there's no mobile reception so will check in much later tonight
xxx
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Hope it's good news Nic.
If you do need any sort of canine massage/manipulation, you could try Nat Lenton, she's too far away for you but might know others up your end of the country, Nats been fantastic with my lot :D
http://www.k9massage.co.uk/
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Hope it's good news Nic.
If you do need any sort of canine massage/manipulation, you could try Nat Lenton, she's too far away for you but might know others up your end of the country, Nats been fantastic with my lot :D
http://www.k9massage.co.uk/
Thanks Jenny :D
Well, (un)fortunately the x-rays didn't show anything really untoward which is good in the sense that it's not anything sinister going on with her bones or joints but not so good in the sense that they still don't know what's causing the lameness. There are some slight arthritic changes in her left shoulder joint but nothing too bad at this stage. The next step is a referral to Glasgow Vet School for scans so we should have an appointment through by the middle of next week although I don't know how long we'll have to wait to actually get seen. The vet said that if the MRI and other scanner (can't remember the name) don't show anything then they'll pass her on to neurology etc. until they get to the bottom of it, apparently they're very good there.
She's limping pretty badly again this evening as they did a fair bit of pulling and stretching of her leg while she was under the GA so she's a bit sore. The really good news though is that not only do we still have 3 weeks of no exercise it's on lead walks only for another 3 weeks after that :-\ ph34r Joy abounds! ::)
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Well, I'm really glad it's nothing sinister, but how frustrating to still not be any further along :-\
Really feel for you both, it's SO hard not being able to explain why they can't go banana's like usual ::) Will keep everything crossed that you get an appointment quickly and in the meantime, hope Tilly discovers that 'laid back and calm' is the new 'crazy and mad'.... well we can hope eh? :lol2: :luv: :luv:
xxx
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It really does sound like a soft tissue injury ... hope the scans can shed some light
x
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Hmmm, does the fact that nothing showed up on x-ray mean it is a soft tissue injury then? I assume so. :huh: If it is a damaged muscle or ligament I know these things can take longer to heal up than a broken bone. >:( I hope they can find something and Tilly is not too uncomfortable :-\ Perhaps the fact that it is not a skeletal problem means she is less likely to need nasty surgery - just trying to be positive here :dunno:
As for the no exercise for 6 weeks thing - perhaps you could get her to take up Sudoku?? ph34r ::)
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Hi Nic
We thought it was good news nothing apparent showed up on Jessie's scans too until she ended up in so much pain she was zonked out on morphine for 4 days waiting for a scan appointment at the referral vet. I would push for the MRI scan date sooner rather than later, it has been this type of scan alone that could see BaileyBirmans problem in his spine and Jessie's cancer in her vertebra and leg joints......her x-rays were showing early signs of arthritis too but in fact it was the myeloma causing her bones to soften :luv:
I don't want to worry you and Im sure Tilly wont have what Jessie or Bailey has but I dont have any faith in Xrays any more except for broken bones....
The technology is great and the scans so detailed........its just amazing.....
Jessie is to have her second scan soon (10th June) and I cant wait tbh as we will find out if the tumors are in regression phase.....
Janey
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Oh dear, I don't envy you or poor Tilly for the next six weeks. Still, I do know that she is in the very best of hands so I hope that you can get to the bottom of this fairly soon. :-*
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Hi Nic
We thought it was good news nothing apparent showed up on Jessie's scans too until she ended up in so much pain she was zonked out on morphine for 4 days waiting for a scan appointment at the referral vet. I would push for the MRI scan date sooner rather than later, it has been this type of scan alone that could see BaileyBirmans problem in his spine and Jessie's cancer in her vertebra and leg joints......her x-rays were showing early signs of arthritis too but in fact it was the myeloma causing her bones to soften :luv:
I don't want to worry you and Im sure Tilly wont have what Jessie or Bailey has but I dont have any faith in Xrays any more except for broken bones....
The technology is great and the scans so detailed........its just amazing.....
Jessie is to have her second scan soon (10th June) and I cant wait tbh as we will find out if the tumors are in regression phase.....
Janey
Oh cr@p :o :-\ ph34r I didn't realise that. If they haven't called me with an appointment by Tuesday afternoon I'll start chasing them and try to get it for as soon as possible. Thanks for that Janey, it's really useful to know, I really hope you get good news at JessieKaKa's next scan :luv: :luv:
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6 weeks of Mistress Huffy not going for a walk.... :'( :'( :'(
oh no no no no NO..... :o :o
(my poor princess fuzzy butt - hope you can push for the mri scan to be bought forward :luv:)
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I dont want to worry you Nic - remember that both Bailey and Jessie's illnesses are very rare .....something like less than 1% of the canine cancers detected are the type they believe Jessie has.....
Be prepared for Tilly to be sore when you collect her tho.....Jessie hobbles for 3 days after hers as they have to manipulate them into a position for the scanner to get the best shot.....have they said whether it could be a spnal issue rather than a shoulder issue? BAiley and Jessie's limps are caused by the vertebra having problems but to look at them walk you would say leg or shoulder...?
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Sending positive thoughts to you all that Tilly's problem can be resolved fairly soon, love Heather xxx
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I dont want to worry you Nic - remember that both Bailey and Jessie's illnesses are very rare .....something like less than 1% of the canine cancers detected are the type they believe Jessie has.....
Be prepared for Tilly to be sore when you collect her tho.....Jessie hobbles for 3 days after hers as they have to manipulate them into a position for the scanner to get the best shot.....have they said whether it could be a spnal issue rather than a shoulder issue? BAiley and Jessie's limps are caused by the vertebra having problems but to look at them walk you would say leg or shoulder...?
Thanks hun :-* Yes, she was pretty sore after the x-rays so I imagine she'll be the same after the scans. The vet did say it could be her spine and the symptoms are just showing up in her shoulder so I'm really keen to get these scans done as they're going to do her whole body. She did have good flexion in her neck when they tested that which he said was a good sign but he said it was impossible to rule anything out at this stage, basically they just don't know!
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I'm keeping everything crossed that Tilly is ok and it is nothing to serious. Keep looking back to find out how she is. Good luck with the scans. xxxxxxxx
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Only just seen this, Nic, and can fully sympathise. :-* It sounds pretty much what Mocha was like at the start of last year, although her shoulder was actually luxating so there was always an obvious problem when she went really lame. After 3 weeks of onlead exercise only with no improvement, the vets took x-rays which showed nothing wrong - joints were all perfect, no signs of arthritis. We were then referred to an orthopaedic vet who took more x-rays and did a joint tap, still showing nothing. He basically came to the conclusion in the end that her ligaments and tendons are "loose" and don't hold the shoulder joint in place, that's why it kept luxating. There wasn't any surgery to do, so it was basically lots of hydro and restricted exercise. She was on the lead for 6-7 months in total and it was a nightmare. She's pretty OK now, but once the muscle tone decreases around the shoulder joints, she goes lame again. :-\ I know Tilly's incredibly fit and already swims lots so she'll be really well-muscled.
Anyway, hope the vets come up with something soon and that it's nothing serious and can be easily treated. In the meantime, I'll be thinking of you and your increasingly frustrated brown dog. :-*
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huge hugs hope you get it all sorted soon. :luv: :luv:
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Hi Nic hope everthing goes great for Tilly lv and hugs Annxx
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Hello Nicola, I see you are online. I have read this thread with interest as I am a retired physio. A big clue for me was when you mentioned the vet was impressed when examining her that she was so stoical. That sounds like Tilly felt it was like a treatment, and was doing her good. In humans, I'd use massage regularly two or three times a week. I'm sure your vet will know of an animal masseuese, or you can do it yourself quite easily, just circling all around the joints with three fingertips, as though you were massaging cream in, but do it for three or four minutes if she will stand that long. It warms up the soft tissue and improves the blood flow. Dogs adore massage. Ask your vet where the joints are if you are unsure. My Sadie loves it
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Hope all goes well with the scan. Big hugs to you all xx
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Only just catching up and seen this Nicola, healing thoughts to you all and I hope all goes well with Tilly's scan :-* to you both.
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we're just back from the vet school with baxter today - their level of care and service is fantastic and i don't think there can be a better place in the UK (wait til you see the new hospital which is nearing completion). we were kept fully updated on baxters ops at all times and it seemed that every procedure was checked and verified by another surgeon or specialist
they only do MRI scans on Tuesdays & Thursdays so i know its very busy but fingers crossed they can see Tilly soon and get to the problem.
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we're just back from the vet school with baxter today - their level of care and service is fantastic and i don't think there can be a better place in the UK (wait til you see the new hospital which is nearing completion). we were kept fully updated on baxters ops at all times and it seemed that every procedure was checked and verified by another surgeon or specialist
they only do MRI scans on Tuesdays & Thursdays so i know its very busy but fingers crossed they can see Tilly soon and get to the problem.
That's really good to know, thanks.
Hello Nicola, I see you are online. I have read this thread with interest as I am a retired physio. A big clue for me was when you mentioned the vet was impressed when examining her that she was so stoical. That sounds like Tilly felt it was like a treatment, and was doing her good. In humans, I'd use massage regularly two or three times a week. I'm sure your vet will know of an animal masseuese, or you can do it yourself quite easily, just circling all around the joints with three fingertips, as though you were massaging cream in, but do it for three or four minutes if she will stand that long. It warms up the soft tissue and improves the blood flow. Dogs adore massage. Ask your vet where the joints are if you are unsure. My Sadie loves it
Thanks for this also, that's quite interesting. I'm not doing anything with her until she's had the scans but I'll definitely bear this in mind for afterwards.
I rang the vet today to chase up, they put her case through to Glasgow yesterday afternoon so just waiting to get an appointment date back, hopefully I should hear from them tomorrow.
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I rang the vet today to chase up, they put her case through to Glasgow yesterday afternoon so just waiting to get an appointment date back, hopefully I should hear from them tomorrow.
Hope you get appointment sorted today- at least then you will have a time scale- there is nothing worse than just waiting without an end in sight.
Big hugs ti you and squidges for the Princess xxx
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I rang the vet today to chase up, they put her case through to Glasgow yesterday afternoon so just waiting to get an appointment date back, hopefully I should hear from them tomorrow.
Hope you get appointment sorted today- at least then you will have a time scale- there is nothing worse than just waiting without an end in sight.
Big hugs ti you and squidges for the Princess xxx
What she said ;) Hope you get some progress today ;)
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I rang the vet today to chase up, they put her case through to Glasgow yesterday afternoon so just waiting to get an appointment date back, hopefully I should hear from them tomorrow.
Hope you get appointment sorted today- at least then you will have a time scale- there is nothing worse than just waiting without an end in sight.
Big hugs ti you and squidges for the Princess xxx
What she said ;) Hope you get some progress today ;)
me too :bigarmhug:
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Sorry to hear about Tilly. You'll have to do plenty of mind games with her to keep her amused.
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Poor Tills, I think when Krum was possibly going to need an MRI at glasgow my vet said he should be seen within a fortnight.
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Just caught up on this.. poor Tilly :luv: :luv: :luv: hope you can get it sorted soon she sounds such a brave girl...
:-* :-* :-* for her poorly shoulder
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Just catching up. So sorry you don't yet have that appointment.
Still thinking of you and her!
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Ooooo hope you get appt soon, big squidges to you, wish I could help with making the wait go quicker
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Hope your not kept waiting too long :o hugs to you both :luv:
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Sorry for not updating but I was computerless all day yesterday. The vet rang and Tills has an appointment in Glasgow at 12.15 on Monday which is great, I wasn't expecting it to be quite so quick. Hopefully they'll be able to start getting to the bottom of what's wrong with her, she's going round here like Hopalong Cassidy :-\
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That's good, roll on Monday and I hope you get some positive news. :D
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That's good, roll on Monday and I hope you get some positive news. :D
Me too - glad you got such a quick appointment. :D Beats the NHS anyway ::) :005:
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good luck today Nic (and Tilly too!)...thinking of you!!
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Good luck today, will be thinking of you.
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good luck today Nic (and Tilly too!)...thinking of you!!
ditto ;)
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good luck today nic. and a gentle squidge to herself. xxx
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Thinking of Tills and you today :luv:
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Be thinking of you both today- hope all goes well for Princess Fuzzy Butt xx
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Best of luck for today, let us know. x
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All the very best wishes for Tilly today, fingers and paws crossed for some positive news later love to you all Heather xxx
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Hope it all goes well today Nic ;)
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Thinking of you and Tilly today. Fingers and paws crossed x x x
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Good luck to Tilly for today, hope it all goes well :luv: :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Good luck today - hope they can shed some light on things for you
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Tilly is still at vets and Nic is to pick her up at 4. She's having more x-rays and fluid taken from her elbow plus a cintography scan. Hopefully the results will help them work out whats to be done to get fuzzybutt back on the go again.
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Thanks for the update Jo, good luck Nicola and Tilly - hope all goes OK :-*
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Ive not been on for a while and seem to have missed loads ph34r hope you get some answers today Nicola ...sending positive thoughts :-*
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Just checking if there's any news; thanks for the update Jo. ;) Been thinking of you and Tills today, Nic, hope you're closer to getting her on the road to recovery. :-*
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Hope Tilly ok after her xrays and tests today, been thinking of you both xxx Thanks for the update JO x
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Thanks for putting that on Jo, we just got home at 7 o'clock, it's been a really long day as Ro and I had to wait around in Glasgow while they kept Tilly in. Poor Tills is not very happy, she had another GA and this one has hit her harder, she's really woozy and for the first time ever she had an accident and peed herself in the back of the car on the way home, god love her she was quite distressed even though obviously I wasn't angry at all, I just felt so sorry for her. She's a bit better now that she's home and we've cleaned her up and she's had some chicken :luv:
Anyway, as Jo said, they did more x-rays, took some synovial fluid out of her shoulder joint and did a cintography scan. They are pretty sure she has something called IOHC which is incomplete ossification of the humeral condyle (I had to write that down!) which basically means her shoulder joint isn't fused properly and there's a weakness there; Spaniels are apparently very predisposed to it. She has some sign of degenerative changes in the joint which ties in with the IOHC diagnosis; they said it's probably only because she's so muscular across her chest and shoulders that she's never actually fractured the humerus as humeral fractures are extremely common in dogs with IOHC although the possibility of this happening may increase with age :-\
The long term prognosis isn't really clear yet. She has to be rested completely for another 6 weeks :-\ which I don't know how I'm going to do as she doesn't take it very well at all and then I have to slowly reintroduce exercise over a period of 2 weeks and then she has to go back to see them again. There is a possiblity of surgery on the joint but they don't know if that's the route they're going to recommend yet. The other option if they don't think surgery will work or help in her case it just to manage it which means that she'll be on daily painkillers for the rest of her life as she's going to be in pain and it's just something we'll have to live with. Obviously this isn't particularly good news and will probably mean that her working will have to be severely reined back if not stopped altogether which for her is almost unthinkable. She's ok for now though, she's dosed up on metacam and is sleeping it off on the sofa but the next 6 weeks are going to be interesting to say the least.
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Aww Nic, really feel for you - you've had more than your fair share of problems with your doglets :-* All I can say is, you did such a wonderful job of nursing Rodaidh back to health and happiness, I'm certain you will do the same for Tilly and she'll have the best possible life she can have.....whatever the prognosis.
Take care..and big hugs to you both :luv:
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Oh Nicola, big hugs to you and Tilly :luv:. I really hope that things don’t deteriorate any further and she’s able to keep doing all the things she loves to do. I’ve never met a fitter dog and hopefully that will sway things in her favour. Once she’s able to, if you ever want to meet up with me and Brodie for an on-lead walk then just pm me :-*
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Aww Nic, really feel for you - you've had more than your fair share of problems with your doglets :-* All I can say is, you did such a wonderful job of nursing Rodaidh back to health and happiness, I'm certain you will do the same for Tilly and she'll have the best possible life she can have.....whatever the prognosis.
Take care..and big hugs to you both :luv:
Couldn't have put it better myself. Sending you and Tilly lots of hugs and :-*.
x
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Dont know what to say hun, it just sucks :-\ Are there any alternative therapy possibilities like acupuncture or hydrotherapy etc?
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Aww Nic, really feel for you - you've had more than your fair share of problems with your doglets :-* All I can say is, you did such a wonderful job of nursing Rodaidh back to health and happiness, I'm certain you will do the same for Tilly and she'll have the best possible life she can have.....whatever the prognosis.
Take care..and big hugs to you both :luv:
Was thinking exactly the same thing. Thinking of you and Tilly :-*.
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Ditto above from me :-* :-*.
I'm so so sorry Nic, sending huge hugs to you and Tilly. Even if she can't work anymore, you may find that she starts to accept a slightly different way of life more easily than expected. She's such a bright little lady and you'll find other ways to stimulate her I'm sure. :luv: :luv:
xxx
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Ditto above from me :-* :-*.
I'm so so sorry Nic, sending huge hugs to you and Tilly. Even if she can't work anymore, you may find that she starts to accept a slightly different way of life more easily than expected. She's such a bright little lady and you'll find other ways to stimulate her I'm sure. :luv: :luv:
xxx
Aww Nic- am so sorry to read this and cant add anything to what has already been said..xx Hope the next 6 weeks goes by quickly for you and Tilly xx
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So sorry to hear about Tilly Nicola.
I really do feel for you and can understand what you are going through - and that is just having had to keep a bengal contained for several weeks.
Sending lots of love and hugs to both you and Tilly from us all here down in London.
Kerry & Gabby xxxxxxxx :luv: :luv:
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Nic I dont quite know what to say, just im so sorry you and Tills are going through all this :'(
Sending you both hugs and kisses :-* (((hugs))) :luv:
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I'm so sorry to hear this Nicola. I hope that the condition can be stabilised and that Tilly can go back to doing the things that she enjoys, or you can find different things for you and her to do and enjoy together if she can't do quite as much in the future.
Elaine and William xx
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I'm so sorry to hear this Nicola. I hope that the condition can be stabilised and that Tilly can go back to doing the things that she enjoys, or you can find different things for you and her to do and enjoy together if she can't do quite as much in the future.
What she said. ;)
So sorry Tills is having these problems Nic and it seems like it is going to be a long haul >:( Tilly is so lucky to have you as her mum though as no one would take more care and do more to make sure she has the best possible chance of a full recovery. :D I don't envy you keeping her quiet for 6 weeks though - blimey you will have to find the doggy equivalent of Sudoku to keep her occupied. :-\
Hope your lovely girl is feeling better now after her horrible day :luv: Sending big hugs to you both :bigarmhug: Hope Ro is being sympathetic to his sis ;)
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Oh Nic, can't add to what's already been said but big hugs and hope that there is something that will help long term :bigarmhug: :-*
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Oh Nic, can't add to what's already been said but big hugs and hope that there is something that will help long term :bigarmhug: :-*
I've nothing to add that hasn't already been said, hope the next six weeks fly by and are not too stressful for both you and Tilly. Sending hugs to you both and hope that when you go back to the vets, you receive more positive news :-*
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I'm so sorry to hear this Nicola. I hope that the condition can be stabilised and that Tilly can go back to doing the things that she enjoys, or you can find different things for you and her to do and enjoy together if she can't do quite as much in the future.
Elaine and William xx
Ditto from me too!!
I hope the 6 weeks rest goes quickly.....does she have to be crate rested? or can she be small room rested? I fine small room to be much much easier on all of us......the crate seems to drive them and me demented wheras being shut in one room but with us lifting on and off sofas etc is much easier - I only crate then if I have to leave her unattended - to stop her jumping about like a loon!!
Good luck Nic xx
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I can't add anything to whats already been said, and just want to echo the other posts and send you all big big hugs and lots of love :luv:
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All of the above from me too, thinking of you all. :-*
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All of the above from me too, thinking of you all. :-*
me too :-*
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Oh Nicola, sorry to read this news. Poor Tilly and poor you. I hope that you and the vets can find a way to manage her pain and problems and keep her as active as possible. What sort of surgery are they talking about? I know that there have been big advances in shoulder replacement surgery in hoomans, not sure if that would carry over to dogs at all...
Anyway. Good luck for the next 6 weeks and hope Tilly is over the GA etc soon :luv:
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So sorry to hear the news Nic. :'( Poor Tilly......... and you must be gutted too. Loads of good wishes and hugs from this wee corner of Aberdeenshire :-*
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Thanks everyone, it is a bit cr@p really but at least I know what it is now. She's a lot happier in herself today, she's over the GA and back on the painkillers so she's resumed her normal mental carry on every time she thinks she might be going out for a walk. I brought her out in the car this afternoon to see her aunty Jo so that's broken the day up for her a bit, I think I'm going to have to start 'driving Miss Tilly' and take her on outings in the car.
Ditto from me too!!
I hope the 6 weeks rest goes quickly.....does she have to be crate rested? or can she be small room rested? I fine small room to be much much easier on all of us......the crate seems to drive them and me demented wheras being shut in one room but with us lifting on and off sofas etc is much easier - I only crate then if I have to leave her unattended - to stop her jumping about like a loon!!
Good luck Nic xx
I can't really crate Tills, she absolutely hates them as her previous owner for some unfathomable reason used to leave her shut up in one for hours on end. We're trying to do 'one room rest' but she's on and off the furniture like a yoyo so it's difficult. She does settle when she's told to but even the most patient dog will go a bit nuts every now and then so I just have to keep watching for the signs so I can jump on her!
What sort of surgery are they talking about? I know that there have been big advances in shoulder replacement surgery in hoomans, not sure if that would carry over to dogs at all...
From what I could gather it's some sort of pinning operation but the vet didn't seem hugely keen on performing it on her as she hasn't actually broken the humerus and it could mean that she'd lose a lot of movement in the joint. I think we're going to try to manage it for the time being, obviously depending on what they say when we go back in 8 weeks time. If surgery is a no-go I think I'm going to go down the route of keeping her as lean but as muscled as possible (difficult at the moment when she's not allowed to walk though >:() and try alternative therapies such as acupuncture and McTimoney plus lots of swimming as she loves it and it's good for the joints. I just don't want her to be in constant pain or to have to give up retrieving because that is her absolute favourite thing in the world :-\
Maybe one day I'll have a dog with normal legs ::) Yet again though this has made me very glad for insurance, the bill for yesterday alone was nearly £1200 plus over £200 at our own vet last week for the consultations and x-rays and that's before we know if she's having surgery or not!
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All of the above from me too, thinking of you all. :-*
me too :-*
..and me :-*
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Hi Nic
Yes we do one room rest here...Jessie is OK with the crate for when we go out..but if we are in she is very upset so told the vet that its not happening.....we are finding it much harder now she is more mobile - easy to keep them in their bed when they're ill but when they think they're better its much harder...lol....
We are at almost £2000 now for Jessie but M&S have been great and paid back everything (minus the £70 excess). We're so pleased given that she is having another MRI Scan tomorrow - that'll be another £1000 there or thereabouts...
Janey
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I am so sorry to hear that its a bit more 'complicated' than anticipated, sorry for being thick but is it that her shoulder joint is too shallow?? If so building up her muscle like you said via swimming would help a lot, do they do joint replacements in animals????
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So sorry you and Tilly are having to go through this... Hope you both survive the next few weeks and that between you you find a balance of activity that suits Tilly, but takes the strain off her shoulder.... :luv:
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Can't add anymore to what's already been said, except you are a very caring owner and you will do your best for Tilly the same as you have done for your other dog, am sure you will find the strength and tenacity to endure the 8 weeks and hopefully your patience will be rewarded with a good outcome. Sending all the luck and love possible to you all, and a big Gold Star for yourself for care above normal love Heather xxx :luv:
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Ohh Nic, so sorry to read this, sending you and the gorgeous Tills lots of gentle hugs :-*
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So sorry to hear the news Nic. :'( Poor Tilly......... and you must be gutted too. Loads of good wishes and hugs from this wee corner of Aberdeenshire :-*
And from this corner of Aberdeenshire too Nic, so sorry to hear about Tilly :-* to you both.