CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: fabmum on March 30, 2009, 01:40:06 PM

Title: red or gold
Post by: fabmum on March 30, 2009, 01:40:06 PM
Is there a BIG difference between these two colours of cocker spaniels as we can't find a gold pup in Scotland at the moment but have found a small breeder who has blacks and reds,we might go and see them but we we're just wondering if anybody out there owns a red cocker?
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: amanda9586 on March 30, 2009, 01:42:31 PM
I'm sure someone with breeders knowledge will be along soon to tell you but we often get told Poppy is a Red so I'd be interested to know....I'd say she was a Goldie!
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: skyesmum on March 30, 2009, 01:42:58 PM
My rescue girl Ruaidh (Rua) is a solid red.  I got her from Many Tears when she was 11 weeks old.

She is lovely - but then I would say that!  :luv: :luv:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: *Jay* on March 30, 2009, 01:44:31 PM
I think its just the depth of colour that determines whether they are classed as red or gold.  I had a rescue cocker who was classed as red and his coat colour was a lot richer than my gold boy.
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Cob-Web on March 30, 2009, 01:45:02 PM
I thought that red/gold/golden/orange/tangerine were just varying shades of the same colour  ;)

The Kennel Club has not specified the terms that should be used to describe cocker spaniel colour, so they can be described in a rainbow of shades; and their colour doesn't make a difference to their personality or temperament  :D
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: SimonandMandy on March 30, 2009, 01:47:09 PM
Harvey officially is a golden but colouring is actually red, main difference is a very light golden or the darker mainly down back with lighter on ears and legs and tummy feathering etc which is what is normally known as red.  There are lots of photos of reds on at the moment on the COL meet up boards from all around the country as well as some of Poppy on today
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Hurtwood Dogs on March 30, 2009, 01:54:48 PM
I thought that red/gold/golden/orange/tangerine were just varying shades of the same colour  ;)

The Kennel Club has not specified the terms that should be used to describe cocker spaniel colour, so they can be described in a rainbow of shades; and their colour doesn't make a difference to their personality or temperament  :D

???? But I thought all solid gold/red cockers had rage?? ;) :lol2:

My solid gold boy was actually described as 'brown' on his kennel club certificate but he was very golden and came from solid gold and solid black lines. I've seen a lot of darker golds recently that I can see would be described as 'red' but whatever shade they are they're all gorgeous and as cob-web says, really are just different shades.
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: laurenollie on March 30, 2009, 01:58:02 PM
When we get Ollie he was descibed as Gold - his kennel name is Greenways Golden boy so this also reflets this.

As he got older he showed more red. I would now say he is a mixture, red in most places with a gold top knot and gold legs and tail!! A complete mis match  :005: !!!

So even you bought a gold puppy it could turn redder or vice versa!!!

L&O x
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: JaspersMum on March 30, 2009, 02:02:05 PM
Heidi is registered gold but gone quite red on her back as she's got older http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/jaspersmum/Heidi/IMG_7568.jpg

I'd go and look at the litter, sounds like it's down to interpretation and how the breeder records the colour and provided everything else checks out, I'd say colour is whether you like or not  ;)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: babushka on March 30, 2009, 02:20:29 PM
Kimmy is registered as red, she has a black nose and her tummy is turning black :lol2:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: 6thSense on March 30, 2009, 03:17:55 PM
When my pups were born they were light golden and so we classed them as Golden, but as they've got older they have changed in colour. The girls have not changed that dramatically and I think would still be classed as Golden, but Tally the boys colour has deepened and deepened and is now a deep rich colour which looks beautiful. It's just a shame as his registered KC name is Golden Tally Is The Man.  ;)  From my experience it is just different tones of the same colour and I seem to have both from the same litter and the temperament with all of them are perfect.
The lighting is slightly different where Tallys pic was taken, but it still shows his colour well.
'Talisman' (Tally).
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/sarahp_09/2009_02060029.jpg)
'Avalon' (Avs).
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/sarahp_09/2009_03120017.jpg)
'Solstice (Solly).
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/sarahp_09/2009_03120020.jpg)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Jane S on March 30, 2009, 03:26:44 PM
This comes up quite often so if you do a forum search you should find other threads but here are two for now:-

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=52856.0

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=36582.0
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: fabmum on March 30, 2009, 03:51:55 PM
thanks everyone for your advice   ;)
All your dogs look so adorable  :luv:
We've made arrangements to go and see the pups tomorrow can't wait now  ;)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: fabmum on March 30, 2009, 03:53:44 PM
Also I would just like to add that this forum site is of GREAT HELP and we haven't even got our new puppy yet,  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: AllyH on March 30, 2009, 04:49:19 PM
Ozzi was registered with the kennel club and sold as red - but he isn't as red as some!!!  see what you think!!!!

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm264/allypally99/P1000130.jpg)

I don't think you would be dissappointed with a red if you wanted a gold as they are very similar as others have said.
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: fabmum on March 30, 2009, 09:47:20 PM
OMG isn't he just gorgeous  :luv:   :luv:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Harveypops on March 30, 2009, 09:55:37 PM
I'm sure someone with breeders knowledge will be along soon to tell you but we often get told Poppy is a Red so I'd be interested to know....I'd say she was a Goldie!

At Formby meet she looked a very rich dark gold, really pretty colour. I can see why people would think she was red.

 I think both colours are gorgeous- I could be a bit biased though  ;)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Hurtwood Dogs on March 31, 2009, 09:51:15 AM
'Solstice (Solly).
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/sarahp_09/2009_03120020.jpg)

Think I'm in love...... :luv: :luv: :luv:

Hannah xxx
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: 6thSense on March 31, 2009, 10:00:19 AM
Ahhhhh. "Fanks" she says.  :luv: She's gone all RED.  :005:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Hurtwood Dogs on March 31, 2009, 10:07:24 AM
Ahhhhh. "Fanks" she says.  :luv: She's gone all RED.  :005:

 :005: :005:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: EmmaA on March 31, 2009, 09:01:41 PM
Here's my little red girlie
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg170/EmmaA_2008/SDC10535.jpg)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: fabmum on March 31, 2009, 09:07:49 PM
she's GORGEOUS  :luv:   :luv:   :luv:

we've just found our puppy today and we've named him Bailey  :luv:
He's registered as red like his dad, but we think he's a dark shade of gold but he's still too young to tell so we'll just have to wait and see   :D
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: amanda9586 on March 31, 2009, 09:51:55 PM
she's GORGEOUS  :luv:   :luv:   :luv:

we've just found our puppy today and we've named him Bailey  :luv:
He's registered as red like his dad, but we think he's a dark shade of gold but he's still too young to tell so we'll just have to wait and see   :D

Have you got any pics then?  How old is he? 

Amanda & Poppy x
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: 6thSense on March 31, 2009, 10:00:46 PM
she's GORGEOUS  :luv:   :luv:   :luv:

we've just found our puppy today and we've named him Bailey  :luv:
He's registered as red like his dad, but we think he's a dark shade of gold but he's still too young to tell so we'll just have to wait and see   :D

YAY!! Great news. I bet you can't wait.Look forward to lots of gorgeous piccies.  ;)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: fabmum on April 01, 2009, 01:36:13 PM
I don't have any pics yet. Bailey will be 4 weeks on Friday, we've been told that we can go back and see him when we want ( hubby says we should wait until we pick him up on 1st may ) don't know if I can wait that long  :005:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: amanda9586 on April 01, 2009, 01:59:13 PM
I don't have any pics yet. Bailey will be 4 weeks on Friday, we've been told that we can go back and see him when we want ( hubby says we should wait until we pick him up on 1st may ) don't know if I can wait that long  :005:

No we couldn't when we got Poppy - had to visit in-between.  Looking forward to the pics!  :luv:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: kalami on April 01, 2009, 05:34:55 PM
On Bellas certificate she's desribed as golden, but she's definatley red - she got the old is she a 'red setter puppy' again today
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Henshallboys on April 01, 2009, 05:39:02 PM

Bramble & beri are shown as golden on their pedigree and Bramble has golden in his "proper" pedigree name.
They were both a lot lighter when they were pups......beri in particular looks more red now.  :luv:
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: JohnW on April 11, 2009, 01:10:42 PM
The trouble is that there is that many colours and then shades of colour on top of that, people are bound to be confused, If it were me I would simply register a reddish pup as gold, and a creamy (Champagne) as Lemon. It cuts down on the confusion. As we will get to a situation where we will be having "Ribena or Lucozade coloured pups" :005: Hopefully in time the Kennel Club wll give Clarity on what colours we can and can't use when registering as it is becoming a wee bit ridiculous :005: ;)
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Jane S on April 11, 2009, 03:57:26 PM
Hopefully in time the Kennel Club wll give Clarity on what colours we can and can't use when registering as it is becoming a wee bit ridiculous :005: ;)

Don't hold your breath on that one ;) The Cocker Breed Council have spent years asking for the KC to do this and they won't because there are so many possible colours & coat patterns in Cockers. The KC have limited registrations to certain colours for a few breeds but only where there's a limited range of colours in the first place.
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: september on April 14, 2009, 07:54:21 PM
I thought that gold was for show types and red for working types or am I thinking of lemon and orange roan?!!
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Nicola on April 14, 2009, 10:56:59 PM
I thought that gold was for show types and red for working types or am I thinking of lemon and orange roan?!!

Yeah, it's lemon roan/&white for workers and orange for shows (generally). I've never heard of a 'red/gold' divide :005:  Rodaidh is a worker and he's registered as gold.
Title: Re: red or gold
Post by: Henshallboys on April 14, 2009, 11:33:12 PM
I thought that gold was for show types and red for working types or am I thinking of lemon and orange roan?!!

Yeah, it's lemon roan/&white for workers and orange for shows (generally). I've never heard of a 'red/gold' divide :005:  Rodaidh is a worker and he's registered as gold.

Bramble & Beri are both registered as gold workers