CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: CraftySam on June 28, 2009, 01:42:15 AM
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I’m having problems with Barney and he’s started attacking Morgan, my American Cocker.
Barney is a very highly strung cocker, he’s very loveable and would love to be cuddled 24/7. I would say he’s always been highly strung however since my split from my ex husband in May 2008 he’s been getting much worse.
He was definitely my ex husbands dog. They both adored each other completely and Barney took his leaving very hard resulting in him being very stressed, crying endlessly, pooing inside, pacing constantly and being very grumpy with the other dogs at times amongst other things. My ex was not in a position to take him (not that I would have been thrilled with that! I do think in the right circumstances it would have been the right thing to do for Barney though).
On one occasion shortly after he left Barney attacked Morgan, who was minding his own business, and wouldn’t stop when I yelled at him. Morgan was squealing and trying to get away but Barney just went with him on top of him. I interjected with one of my crutches (walking crutch) gently as I couldn’t get him to stop. Morgan was stunned I think, as was I. He was ok just rather taken aback.
After that we had the odd grouchiness from Barney towards Morgan (never Sapphi or Max) but nothing to write home about really. My ex was coming back to walk the dogs a couple of times a week but in the end I had to put a stop to him seeing Barney because he became far too stressed when my ex left. After a while he seemed to improve a little. My ex does still walk the other 3 dogs and I have to put Barney away whilst he picks them up outside the house and Barney has the screaming habdabs but that’s over quickly and we don’t have any of the symptoms of stress.
Then a number of months later whilst I had the builders in fitting a new kitchen it happened again. Again I saw exactly what happened, Barney had some food and Morgan walked past him. He didn’t get too close or make any attempts to take it. It was the same again, yelling didn’t stop him. Again Morgan was trying to get away squealing and Barney wouldn’t let go. This time I was in my electric wheelchair and I zoomed up to him full speed which stopped him.
On both of those occasions I would say Barney was under stress and he doesn’t deal with that at all. I put the episodes down to that. I am consulting my homeopathic vet for help with Barney’s stress and we’ve tried 3 different remedies so far with no success. Before this I tried Zylkene for a couple of months which didn’t help. I took Barney to a Tellington Touch workshop to see if it would help him and it made him violently sick. He was sick a total of 10 times during the workshop and a further 8 times that day, it was hell. They said it was his stress, I wasn’t convinced it wasn’t just a bug! However I have since attempted some basic T Touch on him and he vomits so I’m now too frightened to continue. I do however put Barney in a T Shirt or a wrap when he appears to be getting more stressed.
Now in just over a week Barney has attacked Morgan twice. Last week Morgan was sat watching the birds in the garden through the patio door and getting a bit excited and he was tapping on the glass. Barney was sat off to Morgan’s left quite a way behind him. All of a sudden Barney launched at Morgan. I was laid back in my rise/recline chair which is quite slow at moving to stand you up so while it was doing that I was yelling at him to stop and he wouldn’t. Morgan was really distressed so in the end I threw the remote control just to the side of them and Barney stopped thank god.
Today (Saturday) it’s happened again. This time I didn’t see what happened as I was out of the room but the results were the same. I used my crutch again to put a stop to it. Again Morgan was very shell shocked.
This time there isn’t anything stressful going on that I could say has upset him and this time the attacks have been a lot closer together than previously.
I am at the end of my tether. I feel that I can’t let this go on for Morgan’s sake, at the moment he’s not getting too badly hurt but I’d never forgive myself if he did, and he’s been completely shaken up by all of this. I just don’t know what else to do with Barney. I do go training with a registered APDT trainer and she says I'm doing what I should be.
Barney is 3.5 yrs and Morgan is 2.5yrs, I’ve had them both since 8 weeks old and they are both castrated.
Does anyone have any suggestions or views? I’d be very grateful if you do.
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Blimey what a time you have been having - I was thinking about you last night
when was barney last checked by the vet? I would get him checked
Hope things can get sorted for you all :luv:
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when was barney last checked by the vet? I would get him checked
He was checked over about 5 weeks ago and been having reviews every couple of weeks since. Nothing seems to be wrong apart from the fact he's extremely highly strung and never seems to have recovered from my ex husband leaving.
I'm spending a fortune I don't have at the vets trying to find something that will help settle him down a bit but haven't had any success yet.
I'm frightened for Morgan and am just so torn. :'( I've been doing a lot of thinking and I wonder if a lot of the problem is a lack of a man. Barney adored my ex and was so attached to him to the point he literally screamed when he came home. Now he has become very attached to my neighbours 16 yr old grandson and he now screams when he comes to visit. He seems to get very attached to men and I wonder if a lack of a man is a problem for him. I love him dearly but not even for him am I going down that road again!!
Also in the last three months he's turned into Harry Houdini and I don't know if this is a symptom of anything. He is just such a complex little man.
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I do go training with a registered APDT trainer and she says I'm doing what I should be.
Your reactions sound good to me, too.
I had a similar situation with Byron and Mac (both entire). Byron is very much king of the castle and tends, at times, to be a bit of a bully where other males are concerned. I've had to pull Byron off a squealing Mac a few times in the past. Mac has never come to any physical harm during these "encounters". Barney and Morgan are relatively close in age so perhaps Barney somehow feels threatened in his authority. You say he is easily stressed which could be an explanation for his outbursts. He sounds just like Byron - deep down very insecure. :-\
The only advice I can give you is to be patient, authoritative and continue with what you're doing. It's probably just a phase and as long as Morgan isn't getting hurt then things will most likely sort themselves out.
Good luck and let us know how you progress. ;)
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Aw Sam, I am sorry you are having these problems with your boys :-\ Men eh? ::) I have no advice but I am sure someone will be along with some help. ;) I hope you can find a solution that suits all of you and I agree with you, getting another man in is far too much to ask !! :005:
Sounds like you are doing everything right to me but hopefully someone with direct experience will be able to give you some pointers. :-\
Take care and keep us posted how things go. :-*
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I'm really sorry to read this Sam hun :-\ this sounds a bit like what Rodaidh was doing to Alfie except it was happening every day and Alfie would fight back and they were both getting hurt. I generally ended up having to physically drag them off each other. Alfie reacted the same way as Morgan afterwards though - he'd be very shell shocked and unsurprisingly he ended up very subdued and almost afraid to move in case Rodaidh hammered him and Rodaidh was just in a permanent high-alert stressy state. It wasn't good for any of us so you have my full sympathy. I know your trainer is very good but it could be worth speaking to a behaviourist? The problems for us started when Rodaidh hit maturity at about 18-20 months and Alfie was nearly 3.
I hope in your case as Morgan doesn't retaliate and they're not injuring each other you may be able to get it sorted out, you know where I am :-*
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Oh dear Sam, I thought Barney had settled down. I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems .
Just a thought,Although you say he doesn't seem as bad now when Andrew takes the other 3 out, could it be that he picks up on his smell when they come back? I know you say he doesn't bother Max or Sapphi but they are bigger and older so maybe that's why he picks on Morgan ??
If it really came to it, is there still no way that Andrew could have him ?
I do hope you can find a solution soon for all your sakes,
Jann :luv: :-*
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What a awful situation for you and for the dogs too. You have tried about all the things I would have tried in your situation.
Might I make a bit of an awkward point? I don't know your personal situation, but I gather from your post you have an illness which makes you less mobile? Might this make it more difficult to intervene in time when tension mounts between both dogs?
In the past I 've had a mild version of your problem with three Leonberger bitches. The youngest and most insecure attacked the middle one. We tried to prevent conflict as we saw tension rising and intervened inmediately when the youngest started a fight. It never got out of hand (worse than a little hole in an ear) and they all lived out their lives with us and each other. (Thankfully.)
The other thing is the man thing. If you really think Barney needs to bond with a man to be happy, would you consider giving him such a home?
I'm sorry I have no real advice or clear solution, but wishing you the best in this difficult situation.
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Definitely sound like Barneys a sensitive lad. He must have read the same book as Lily ::) The t-touch thing is really interesting from a behavioural point of view.... what parts of it have you tried? Does the bodywrap/t-shirt help him? What homeopathic remedies have you tried? If he seems more drawn to men could you get a man to try the t-touch and see if the same thing happens? Apart from the vomiting did he show any other signs of stress?
Do you think he picks on Morgan as Morgan is the smallest out of the other 3? Did they used to get on ie play together or anything? What do the other dogs do when Barney has a go?
Not much use am I with all the questions but its all linked together...... ;)
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Alfie reacted the same way as Morgan afterwards though - he'd be very shell shocked and unsurprisingly he ended up very subdued.
It wasn't good for any of us so you have my full sympathy.
I feel so guilty that Morgan is having to go through this. I think I feel more guilty because every time it happens Morgan is minding his own business completely and is set upon completely out of the blue.
Like a friend said today its not as if Barney is reacting to something Morgan's doing like bugging him when asleep or when eating because Morgan would learn not to do it.
I'm pretty stressed out with it now. Barney's had his issues before and I've been able to manage them and get it sorted. On the first two occasions I could see the link to heightened stress but right now that isn't the case and that is what worries me.
I'll PM re your behaviourist suggestion.
Just a thought,Although you say he doesn't seem as bad now when Andrew takes the other 3 out, could it be that he picks up on his smell when they come back? I know you say he doesn't bother Max or Sapphi but they are bigger and older so maybe that's why he picks on Morgan ??
If it really came to it, is there still no way that Andrew could have him ?
Yes Jann I'm sure he's fully aware that Andrew has been about. I handover the dogs to Andrew outside by the gate whilst Barney is shut in the hall out of sight. However Barney isn't responding to this in the same way he did when he used to see Andrew or when he could smell he'd been in the flat. Then he'd start the constant crying and poo'ing inside for days on end. So whilst I think he knows he's been about it doesn't appear to be distress him to the same level.
Andrew work's full time and has just been given a flat in a high rise so its a non starter unfortunately.
If he had a go at Sapphi she'd finish it I'm sure! Only seen her in action once but it was eye opening! :o She'd never start it but she'd certainly stick up for herself. Max is very quietly the boss and whilst Max would react exactly the same as Morgan I don't think Barney knows it!
I look after a friends Shitzhu and Barney adores her, plays endlessly with her and has never had a crossword. Interestingly any new dog that comes to our house it's Barney that is falling over himself to welcome them. He's becoming a Jackal and Hyde character. :-\
Might I make a bit of an awkward point? I don't know your personal situation, but I gather from your post you have an illness which makes you less mobile? Might this make it more difficult to intervene in time when tension mounts between both dogs?
In the past I 've had a mild version of your problem with three Leonberger bitches. The youngest and most insecure attacked the middle one. We tried to prevent conflict as we saw tension rising and intervened immediately when the youngest started a fight. It never got out of hand (worse than a little hole in an ear) and they all lived out their lives with us and each other. (Thankfully.)
The other thing is the man thing. If you really think Barney needs to bond with a man to be happy, would you consider giving him such a home?
Don't worry it's not an awkward point at all! :D I'm very open about my illness and its effects. Yes I am not very mobile. I use crutches as much as I can inside my home and use an electric wheelchair the rest of the time. It does make it more difficult for me to intervene because I can't risk attempting to pull him off because I'm very easily caught off balance and will fall which will make my condition worse. So I've had to use one of my crutches and when I couldn't get up which enough throw the remote just to try startle him. This worries me.
Barney has kicked off quite a bit before now and like you I learnt what the catalysts were and managed the situation so to avoid them. In that situation if he started to react a vocal correction from me stopped him before it got out of hand. Also in those circumstances it wouldn't purely be directed at Morgan it would be at any one of them.
Now the big difference is that there aren't any outward signs at all before he launches himself at Morgan. I wasn't in the room yesterday but last week he was literally sat a little way behind Morgan just to one side of him and he look relaxed and then all hell broke loose.......that is what I find frightening because it just doesn't give me anything to work with.
I've been doing an awful lot of thinking trying to find answers and clues to this mess. Never in a million years did I ever think I'd encounter a situation where I'd ever even have a fleating thought of having to rehome any of my dogs, I made a commitment for life. In all my soul searching for ways to resolve the situation and thinking what situation would be best for Barney I wonder whether being an only dog with a permanent relationship with a man would help him be happier but I can't offer either of those things. :'(
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Sam, I'm so sorry you have this dilemma with Barney :'( I can imagine how you must be feeling but please don't in any way blame yourself.
Those of us that know you know how much you have achieved with your dogs and how dedicated you are to them. I know that if there was a simple answer to all of this you would have been the first to know how to deal with it ;)
I know it is almost too hard to contemplate, but if you have tried everything then maybe as you say re homing Barney would be for the best :huh: There is no shame in doing this, it would be the bravest thing, putting Barney's happiness before your own.
Thinking of you, Jann :luv:
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The t-touch thing is really interesting from a behavioural point of view.... what parts of it have you tried? Does the bodywrap/t-shirt help him? What homeopathic remedies have you tried? If he seems more drawn to men could you get a man to try the t-touch and see if the same thing happens? Apart from the vomiting did he show any other signs of stress?
Do you think he picks on Morgan as Morgan is the smallest out of the other 3? Did they used to get on ie play together or anything? What do the other dogs do when Barney has a go?
The T Touch workshop was an introduction to it. I used the circle and a quarter randomly over his body, cupping his ears in my hand and rotating them in both directions and holding his ear between finger and thumb and running them down his ear. I also did some mouth work, some belly lifts with the wrap. During the workshop they put a wrap on him to try help him calm whilst he was vomiting and it didn't appear to have much of an effect. Since using both the T Shirt and wrap at home I can't really say I can see an improvement. I persevere because my view is they can't do any harm.
I would have always described Barney as a stress monster and that was indeed how I introduced him at the workshop. However during the course of the workshop I discovered a lot of the other behaviour I put down to him being a Cocker was actually him exhibiting signs of stress, far more than I ever thought and I was completely devastated that he was sooo distressed. I also felt a huge amount of guilt for my relationship with my ex ending as it has devastated him so much. :'(
Other signs of stress are his constant pacing, his howly cry he does while pacing. As soon as I make any move to get up he starts frantically spin and scream which I find quite stressful when all I want to do is go to the loo. He licks an awful lot too which I learnt was a sign of stress too at the workshop. He intermittently poo's inside when really stressed. He howls with screams if he thinks he's missing out on something. From being a pup he never liked the idea he might be missing out on something but that has got much worse since my ex left.
His tail never stops, now I thought that meant he's happy but I learnt that wasn't always the case and he does seem to have excessive tail wagging which can also be another sign of stress. Barney either is frantically on the go or completely crashed out and he goes from one to the other in a split second. The vet was quite surprised when she witnessed it.
The practitioners spent some time with Barney and said that they weren't surprised I'd not recognised the things they pointed out because he does hide his stress well in terms of how he is when they met him. He's desperate to bestow his love on everyone he meets and at face value looks at happy chap. They all wanted to take him home.
I really don't know a man who would do T Touch with him. My family don't want to know about any of this ("we told you gold cockers were nothing but trouble" >:( >:( They know nothing about dogs but a very "helpful" friend informed them of this just before I got Barney and in their mind they've been proved right. For a long time I hid the problems I'd had in the past).
I'm going to sound a bit dumb about the homeopathic remedies I'm afraid. ::) I am new to homeopathy and recently moved vets to a practice that offered it as a first point of treatment. The first remedy was in pilule form and is Nat Mur 1M according to the label, the second remedy was in tincture form and is Ignatia 1M and the third was pilule but I no longer have the bottle as it was all used up. In all the cases the dose was 1 pilule/spray evening, morning and evening once.
Barney and Morgan have on the whole got on and used to play a lot when Morgan was a puppy but don't now. Barney has always had a jealous side of him. If he was sat on my ex's knee and any of the dogs came up to him he would snap at them. I always told him to make Barney get down immediately so that he learnt that behaviour got him precisely the opposite of what he wanted. However my ex refused no matter how many rows we had about it. >:(
Barney knows if he behaves like that with me his cuddle ends immediately and rarely tried it on. However in the last few weeks he has been doing and I am standing firm.
Both the boys like to cuddle up on me when I'm laid back in my rise/recline chair. If Barney's on first and Morgan jumps on Barney has started to snap and snarl more so he is told to get off immediately. If Morgan is on first and Barney jumps on he's happy to share.
Barney did from time to time try to push others having a fuss out of the way and I've never stood for that. This problem is now getting worse with his persistent pushing others away or blocking them. I am ignoring him and continuing fussing who I was originally. I think its just showing that he's not becoming more unhappy and needing more reassurance constantly. However I'm not going to allow him to get away with this behaviour because I fear it will be a very slippery slope to more bad behaviour. When he has eventually stopped pushing in for his turn he gets loads of cuddles just like everyone else.
Sapphi and Max move to the other end of the room when Barney is attacking Morgan. I'd not really realised what they were like after I had intervened and stopped it until the day I threw the remote and when Barney had skulked off to bed I asked Sapphi to go and fetch it for me and she was too frightened to go for it as Barney was quite close to it.
I think i've answered everything! :005:
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I have no advice for you but I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this is happening to you and your dogs - you are so dedicated to finding a solution - I really hope you can find one :-*
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I have a dog aggressive cocker aged 7 now but still aggressive in certain circumstances. For example if I have a "catalyst" rehab dog in as recently I can have a full scale battle usually just the two but it can escalate - all mine are dogs so it disturbs the "balance". This is not an easy thing to handle and is extremely stressful as I know both Nicola with Alfie and I have found out for ourselves. I know his triggers, but even so my lad is occasionally simply not a pleasure to be around, have or work with!
I note you say you are feeling quite stressed with it all now, I fully understand that and also the fact that you are less than able bodied puts you at a disadvantage.
I have thought hard about your options for Barney and also considered whether it is fair on either you or Barney for you to continue searching for answers. I just wondered if you could do as Nicola did with Alfie and have a friend who could take Barney out of the equation for a month or so to give both you and Morgan some breathing space during which you could consider what you want to do or how to progress? Perhaps next door's grandson?
If you are struggling physically, suffering with high stress levels and have financial constraints to take into account too, then I have to say rehoming Barney may be the answer for both your own health and welfare and Barney's, sad though that is.
Whatever you decide, good luck - and no-one can say you didn't try hard enough nor have Barney's and your other dogs best interests at heart.
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Sam I am going to come out and ask you what a few people may be thinking - is there any chance that if you need to rehome Barney that your ex OH could take him?
I really hope something can be worked out and my thoughts are with you :luv:
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Sam already answered that question cazza, unfortunately due to where he is living he is unable to have Barney :'(
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Hi Sam, hope you don't mind but I talked to Top Barks on our walk yesterday about this (I was amazed about the t-touch vomiting TBH and wanted to hear his take on it....from what you've said he's an incredibly stressed little boy :-\ )
He's away this week as well but I'm sure he wouldn't mind you contacting him - if anyone can assess a stressed little dog it's Mark :luv:
I don't have any advice but I really feel for you :bigarmhug: - it may be that Barney could be happier in an only dog home (with no kids probably) and I think this has already entered your thought process but I'm sure as a last resort and one that will break your heart :'( :'( None of us can see what's really happening on a forum and the advice is from personal experiences only - I'm convinced that a consultation with Mark would be the way to go - he is so cocker savvy and very supportive :luv:
Please do contact Mark and :bigarmhug:
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I think ex husband lives in a high rise flat so it's out the question. I suppose you've looked at diet? I know it can make a diffrence. My sister had a similar problem with her dogs and she ended up rehoming the aggresive one who now lives as an only dog and has become very laid back.
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I agree with the others that a behaviourist, ideally Mark, is the first port of call. To be brutally honest I dont think there will be a way to really help Barney if he stays in his current situation. There may be ways to ease his stress and ways for you to manage the behaviour but its clear he is showing severe signs of stress.
Lily is not far off from being the same as him. She is most definitely a stress monster too and will always need careful handling but luckily my home environment is well suited to her so its under control. I wish there was an easy answer to give you but you obviously have tried all the usual stuff and know him very well so its not going to be something simple that helps him. I know you say you wont give in to his demands but with a dog like that its actually sometimes the best way to help them..... unfortunately in a multi-dog household making them the centre of attention aint going to work out :-\
I cant tell what homeopathic things are from what you've said but I do know that what works for one dog wont have an effect on another aso its very much a game of trial and error.
I'd definitely try and give yourself and Barney a break from the immediate stress and see if you could find someone to look after him for a few weeks. As hard as it will be there are several other COLers who have done the same thing and I think all will agree it was really useful and let them think clearly.
Jo xx
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts and comments and for your honesty.
I've had a sleepless night mulling everything over. I feel like I'm letting both of them down. :'( I think deep down Fifer & Jo are right and Barney now needs to be an only dog and would love a man to adore but I am so frightened that rehoming him might completely devastate him.
I've had my ups and downs with Barney with some of his quirky ways and I've always managed to sort it out and manage him. I never dreamed I'd be in a situation where he might be better away from us. :'(
Equally I hate Morgan getting attacked and worry how that is making him feel. I'm now on tenter hooks watching for any signs that Barney might be about to go for him. I'm sure me being like that is no good for either of them because they'll both sense it. I'm scared to leave them in the room together so I'm trying to keep one of them with me as much as I can.
I wish I had someone who'd look after him for a little while as a few of you suggested. I really don't know anyone. My neighbours grandson isn't an option as his home life would make Barney worse as there is constant friction and shouting and I'm sure his mum would never allow it either.
I'm not sure how to go about sorting this mess out but everytime I think of him going I feel sick. :'(
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I wish I had someone who'd look after him for a little while as a few of you suggested. I really don't know anyone.
I don't know whereabouts in the country you are, is there no-one on this forum near to you who would/could help out? Even chatting on the phone helps sometimes, if all it does is make us laugh at ourselves and raise our spirits it has some validity.
Why not appeal for someone to take him for a holiday on here? ;)
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Oh Sam. I was so pleased to see you back, but so sorry that it is for this reason.
Do get in touch with Mark.
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I have mentioned it on another forum, I would look into thyroid! The aggressive episodes seem very similar to what Jesse used to have before he was on thyroid medication... And his aggression seemed to become worse and worse towards any of our dogs, though more often towards our pyrenees!
Another symptom he had was his increased nervousness around stuff he is frightened of... For example, he is scared of small children (due to lack of socialisation with them). He used to walk past them and only vocalise when they came too close towards him. However, it got to a stage where he would start reacting when they were yards away and he would scream walking past them even if they completely ignored him! He would also start reacting to all sorts of other things that he was fine with before like prams, people in hats etc. He was in general also much less sociable with people and would rarely go up to someone he didn't know!
Since being on medication, he is like a completely changed dog... no more attacks in our home at all (bar one which I think was due to him possibly not swallowing the tablet) in 9 months, he is still worried about small children approaching him, but now only to an extent that I would expect from an undersocialised dog, no more screaming, walking calmly past them if they ignore him and even going up to the odd one to say hello! His increasing anxieties with everyday things like prams etc has completely and utterly disappeared and he now goes up to say hello happily to pretty much anyone we meet, very rarely will he back away from a person now! Friends that met him "before" and "after" couldn't believe the difference in him!
So in his case, the whole situation - including anxiety/stress issues - were caused or drastically increased by lack of thyroid hormones! So yes, I would test for it before thinking about rehoming - though it needs to be done properly as the normal basic T4 test that most vets use is not reliable and conclusive for dogs!
Vera
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You are not letting any of them down because it's quite obvious that u are desperately looking for a solution so put that thought and the guilt right out ur head!!!!
Im so sorry for the situation that you are in, but you can and will find the answer thats best for Barney and ur other dogs even if that means rehomeing him.....which in the end will no doubt be alot harder for you than it will be for him, so please dont stress yourself any more.
Big Hugs!
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It's time to update everyone with what has been happening here.
As you know I was at my whits end having tried everything that I could. The situation as it was did neither Barney, Morgan, Sapphi, Max or myself any good. I'd considered all the responses I received and did some soul searching on what the best solution was for all of them, I wasn't important in this. I have had the worst two weeks of my life. :'(
Jo (joanne_v) contacted me to offer a foster home for Barney with her parents who have previously fostered for Springer Rescue Scotland who Jo is involved with. Jo's parents have owned Cocker's and are very experienced with them, something that was vitally important for me. Plus of course Jo herself would be on hand to assist with any issues.
I went away and did an awful lot of thinking, spoke to everyone who knows Barney well and the situation we are in. I spoke to my vet and she confirmed that my thoughts about him needing to be an only dog and with a man in his life were right. They agreed that his stress since I split my husband is what is still affecting him a lot.
The vet said that she saw rehoming him as the best thing for everyone concerned and a "win win situation for everyone". She's been trying to help Barney for a number of months and we'd not got anywhere. She also said "you just said that you thought what would Barney want for a life if he could tell me and you've thought honestly what that would be. That just shows how much you love dogs, that you'd put him first before any feelings you have". I found that very comforting. The vet was also very concerned that Morgan could well become aggressive as the best form of defence. She also said that although he'd not attacked Sapphi and Max they would be keeping one eye on him watching their backs.
I decided that ultimately for Barney's sake I had to give him the best chance to be happy. So I spoke with Jo and we spent last week talking about everything. We made arrangements for Barney to go to her parents.
That was last week and I have been completely heartbroken at the thought of him leaving. :'( I completely fell apart and I couldn't do anything last week. My dogs are my life, I run my life around them and they are always my first priority. I couldn't sleep at all and I was just beside myself, I still am. During all this time Barney was continuing to attack Morgan. :'(
Morgan has become very jumpy in the last few weeks. :'( Then last Friday he messed inside in the lounge which is unlike him. He walks as he poo's so there were 21 different places to clear up poo from. ph34r I was in agony when I'd finished clearing it up. He had been attacked the day before. He had messed inside the previous week though not as bad and when I worked it out he'd been attacked the day before that time. So he was obviously becoming distressed by it. :'(
Nicola very kindly offered to come for him. :luv: I'm really limited as to how far I can travel. She came and collected him on Monday. :'( :'(
The night before she came I was awake all night and I felt so sick. I ended up cleaning the house all night otherwise I would have just sat and cried all night and the dogs were already unsettled by how I'd been.
My heart broken when Nicola came and got him, it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life. :'( Far far harder than when I split up with my husband......honestly. :-\
It is so quiet here it just feels wrong. Barney always made more noise than the other three put together. ::) :luv:
I've waited to post this because I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Today I feel a little bit easier, I can't say happy.
Barney on the other hand is having a whale of a time! Nic said he was as good as gold on the journey up. :angel: I'm getting regular texts and PMs from Jo letting me know all about what he's doing and I know from what she's telling me he's doing......all those little traits when he's full of himself.....that he's absolutely fine. :luv:
I cannot thank Jo enough for coming to our rescue. :luv: I would never have let Barney go to somewhere that I didn't have confidence in and as I said before I could only let him go to experienced Cocker owners. Jo's mum is one of only a few people that can handle Jo's Lily, who shares a lot of Barney's issues, and that really reassured me.
And Nic, thank you so much for coming all the way down here just to help me out. :luv: I can never thank you enough.
I'd also like to really thank Rhona W and Jann for getting me through this. They've spent their evenings picking me up. :luv:
I'd also like to thank Fifer who also offered to help find a short term foster home for Barney. :luv:
This forum is a very special place. :luv:
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Aaaw Sam, what a heartbreaking decision to make :'( But you know, as many of us thought when you posted about the problems you were having with Barney attacking Morgan, that the best long term solution would be to find somewhere for Barney that would suit him better at this stage in his life :-\ I know how much your dogs mean to you and how hard it must have been but well done for putting your dogs first. :luv:
Jo is an angel for all the stuff she does to help the rescue - I know you have found someone who will do everything to make sure that Barney has the best possible future he can :luv: What a star Nic is as well to come down and collect your boy. :luv: Hard as it must have been to part with your lovely Barney, it must have given you some comfort to know that he was going to people who understand the breed and will work hard to find a way to accommodate his issues :-\ Don't worry about Barney, I am sure he will be fine and, as you say, having a great time - he will enjoy being centre of attention I am sure ::) The situation was obviously very stressful for him too :-\
How are the other doggies doing now? I know you say it is quiet but your house must be a lot less stressful now without having to worry about when the next incident is going to be :-\
Look after yourself Sam and give it time - you have done a selfless thing for the benefit of all your dogs and yourself. Hopefully you will be able to relax a bit and see things more clearly with a more peaceful household. :D
Sending you big hugs from here and lots of positive vibes to keep strong to get you through this. :bigarmhug:
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So sorry it came to this, but you have done what only the most caring and dedicated owners can do, and that is to put his needs above your own.
I can only imagine how hard it is for you right now, but in time you will be able to take comfort from knowing you have given Barney the chance to lead the life he truly needs... :luv:
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Oh Sam :'(
I spoke to Nic on her way back with Barney and my heart broke for you - what a terrible decision to make, and how brave and selfless you are :bigarmhug:
Jo will make sure Barney is happy and I know you know that - it will take time for your heart to heal so please be gentle with yourself and know that we are ALL here for you
Thinking of you :luv: :luv: :-*
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Whoo, that update made me very emotional. You are amazing, lots of people would have gone on and on in a never ending cycle, you put Barney and Morgans needs before your own and made what i can only imagine would be a heart-breaking decision that I hope I never have to make, but pray that if i ever had to that i'd be as brave and selfless as you have proven yourself to be. Take care of yourself :-*
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I am so sorry to hear this, I can't even begin to imagine what you are going through :'(. I don't know what to say other than I think you have made an incredibly brave decision :-*. I am thinking of you (((((hugs)))))
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:bigarmhug:
You know I think you have done the best thing possible for all five of you. :luv: Yes it is very painful now, but you would have made yourself ill if you had carried on living in that stressful atmosphere for much longer. Not to mention the effect it was having on all of the dogs, not just Barney and Morgan.
I'd also like to really thank Rhona W and Jann for getting me through this. They've spent their evenings picking me up. :luv:
And I'd like to thank Sam for keeping me up so late that I overslept and my kids were late for school. :lol2:
Seriously though Sam. You know where I am if you ever need me. :luv:
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I think you've made a very brave and selfless decision, you put the dogs before your own feelings and did what is right for them. They will all be happier now, although it will take you a long time to get over it. :-*
Take care of yourself, you did the right thing. :luv:
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I can't imagine how difficult the decision to re home Barney must have been and I admire you enormously for doing what was right for your beloved dogs.
I hope the fact that he seems happier goes a little way to comfort you.
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Thank you everyone for your lovely words. I'm off again. :'( ::)
What a star Nic is as well to come down and collect your boy. :luv:
How are the other doggies doing now? I know you say it is quiet but your house must be a lot less stressful now without having to worry about when the next incident is going to be :-\
It really helped me that Nic collected him because he had met her before and he was more than happy to go with her.
Morgan is still very jumpy. :-\ I think he'll need time to realise that he's not coming back and he's not in the hall! That's where he went when I had to separate them. The other two seem fine. It's certainly a lot calmer here, I always thought Barney's hyper personality wound the others up and I think I was right. I'm sure over the next few weeks they'll all relax completely.
I'd also like to really thank Rhona W and Jann for getting me through this. They've spent their evenings picking me up. :luv:
And I'd like to thank Sam for keeping me up so late that I overslept and my kids were late for school. :lol2:
And no matter what you always succeed in making me laugh every night! :005: And you've just fulfilled tonights mission! :lol2:
I hope no one takes this the wrong way but I can't bare to keep my Avatar of Barney. :'( Having him staring back at me is breaking my heart. :'( He gave me that look when I handed him to Nic and it was the worst look he could of given me. :'(
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Sorry you are having such a bad time of it lately - but as others have so rightly said - you know in your heart you did what was best for your dogs - and that take bravery.
Removing Barney's picture is quite understandable in the circumstances I would have thought, why not have an 'abstract' picture in for now. Something that wont mean so much to you, flowers or fish or sommat.
Hugs and friendly vibes being sent. :luv:
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I'd also like to really thank Rhona W and Jann for getting me through this. They've spent their evenings picking me up. :luv:
:luv: :-* Anytime Sam, and well done for being strong enough to make this decision :-* I know it'll be the right one ;)
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You've been very brave letting Barney go, you've done the right thing for him and for you, Morgan, Sapphi and Max. My heart is still breaking for you, taking him away was horrible but you've done the right thing; you've been very selfless and put your dogs first as you always do.
Barney was indeed good as gold on the way up here :luv: he's an incredibly well behaved and well trained little man and that is all down to you. You don't need to thank me for anything either, I've been in the same situation and it's awful, it's the most dreadful decision to have to make and I'm just so sad that it has happened to you. You know where I am if you need anything :luv:
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Barney is a total star Sam, such a huge credit to you. I'm so happy we could help you all out and that you have entrusted him to the care of my parents. He has settled in amazingly well and mum is officialy smitten already (in fact she was smitten the moment she lay eyes on him). He is so funny and cute and I love his mannerisms. Definitely a typical cocker in the personality stakes, he's full of character!
I'm useless at making people feel better and I cant imagine how it must be for you but I can promise you he is being well looked after in his own private dog palace complete with 3 fulltime hoomans and 1 part-time hooman to wait on him hand and paw.
I'll take some piccies tomorrow which I hope will help and not hinder your sadness :-*
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I feel desperately sorry for you :'( it's a situation that every multiple dog owner dreads :'( myself included, but you have made the most selfless and brave decision for Barney and Morgan. Be kind to yourself :-*
As for Jo :angel: and Nic :angel: what stars they are!!
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Barney is a total star Sam, such a huge credit to you. I'm so happy we could help you all out and that you have entrusted him to the care of my parents. He has settled in amazingly well and mum is officialy smitten already (in fact she was smitten the moment she lay eyes on him). He is so funny and cute and I love his mannerisms. Definitely a typical cocker in the personality stakes, he's full of character!
I'm useless at making people feel better and I cant imagine how it must be for you but I can promise you he is being well looked after in his own private dog palace complete w.ith 3 fulltime hoomans and 1 part-time hooman to wait on him hand and paw.
I'll take some piccies tomorrow which I hope will help and not hinder your sadness :-*
What a lovely post. :luv: Sounds like Barney has got the perfect home to match his needs. Sam you had to do what was right for ALL the dogs. :luv: :luv:
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Sam I really admire you. You are so brave being able to that for Barney. i wish I could say I knew i would be strong enough to do that if needed.
Jo's post was lovely, hopefully you can take some comfort from the fact Barney is being loved and looked after.
I hope you and Morgan will both start feeling better soon. Just now take care of yourself, i will be thinking of you :-*
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What a brave and very hard decision you have made...my heart really does feel for you :-* :-* so glad he is in good hands ...if doG forbid i am every in the same situation i would hope that Jo and Nicola would be willing to help as i would trust them explicitly to care for one of mine ;)
Thinking of you Sam...take care :luv:
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You've made the best decision for all of you, and it was a very selfless one that not everyone would have had the courage to make. :luv: We all know from reading your posts how hard it was for you and that it was one not made lightly.
Be kind to yourself. :-*
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Oh gosh, I've just read all the way though this, I've always had a soft spot for Barney... it's my golden fetish that I can't shake loose :luv: I so so feel for you and can't imagine how hard it's been. I'm also thrilled that yet again, COL'ers have come to the rescue and it just goes to show what a very special bunch of people we have here again :luv: :luv: It sounds like he's in perfect hands now and that must be a huge comfort for you.
Massive hugs from me and hope you start to relax and feel a bit better about it soon as you've definitely done the right thing :-* :-* :luv:
Hannah xxx
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So, so sorry to read all this about Barney. :'( You have made such a brave decision and my heart goes out to you. :luv: I know at the moment it will still be heart wrenching painful for you, but it sounds like Barney will be in very good hands with some lovely people. :luv:
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My heart goes out to you, i cant imagine how you must be feeling, it just shows how much you love all your dogs to make such a difficult decision and i hope knowing Barney is being well looked after and happy will be of some comfort to you.
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I'm so sorry you had to make this difficult decision - it must be 100 times harder than the decision a lot of us have to make regarding PTS. But you didn't just have Barney to consider - you have your own welfare (which has to come first or you wouldn't be able to look after any dogs at all) and the welfare of your three other dogs to consider. And this you have obviously done, so job well done. And Nic and Jo are ace - you don't need to worry about Barney. Anyway, thinking of you.
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I am so sorry that Barneys behavior didn't mprove. You have been so strong and brave in your decision. Glad that you will be able to keep up to date with how he is getting on. Take Care
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So sorry things didn't work out - I've been there myself to the point that the 2 in question couldn't be in the same room together. It's a horrid situation and my heart really goes out to you. I hope it doesn't take too long for Morgan to settle down :-*
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Im so sorry you had to make this heartbreaking decision, I know from experience its not made lightly, you have made a selfless decision to put your dogs first, and deal with your feelings later :-* Jo :angel: took me under her wing and found my Girl the most fantastic home ever imaginable and she never made that decision lightly either, she will move heaven and earth to ensure the welfare of the dog :luv: So take comfort in the knowledge that Barney is not feeling as you are, he has dealt with this move admirably and that is down to you as his Mum :luv:
It took courage and outright love for your dogs to reach your decision, it hurts now but believe me it does slowly get easier, especially when you realise how happy your dog is :luv:
Im not very good at putting feelings into words, and ive probably babbled :-\ just want you to know we are all here for you, and some of us know firsthand what you are going through :-* I know without people like Jo, Nic, Helen and many more people who were there in an instant for support, the healing process would of been impossible.
Please be kind to yourself and give yourself time :luv: :-*
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Thank you everyone for your kind words. :luv: They do really help. ;)
Today is the first day that I've not cried. :D I hated how it felt at home, so quiet, and kept thinking "what have I done?" even though I knew it was the right thing to do. Today I felt some peace inside me if that makes sense. :-\ I'm sure that knowing Barney is with people who understand him and are giving him everything he ever wanted has contributed to me feeling that peace. Everything that Jo has told me about how he is and what he is doing gives me a very strong indication that he is a happy boy. :luv: I pray it continues.......
For the first time in months the dogs have played together today. :luv: Today Sapphi and Max do seem more relaxed (so the vet must of been right), Morgan is still very jumpy when its quiet. I can't say they've missed Barney. :embarassed: Certainly no one is looking for him!
The boys are doing something strange though. :-\ They will not go outside into the garden no matter how much I cajole them. Normally they fly out the patio door when I open it and don't come back in until I call them. They don't seem to want to leave me. :-\ So I'm having to go out with them so they'll go and be clean. I'm sure they'll settle down over the coming days.
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Take a look at this thread..........
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=61853.0
He's a happy boy! :luv: :luv:
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Aww Sam what a heartbreaking time but how ace are the videos thet Jo has posted....He is definately a happy boy and you are the one that allowed that to happen buy finding the strength to let him go :-*
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;) Fantastic Sam, it's good to hear you sound so much happier too :luv:
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Sam I'm really sorry I have only just caught up with this as have been away
You know where I am - loads of love and hugs to you :luv: :-*
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I am missing Barney terribly today. :'(
I don't know if its all caught up with me now I've stop panicking about him being ok. :-\ I hate the fact my brain reminds me the second I open my eyes that he's gone and I feel so sick. I wish I could fast forward a few months.
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Sam - as I said in the other thread - somehow I totally missed all this. Thinking of you and sending you lots of hugs. Words wont make it any easier for you - but what you have done for Barney is amazing. Thinking of you and I'm so sorry that the situation escalated so much. Thank goodness for the support of COL :luv: Take Care xxx
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I am missing Barney terribly today. :'(
I don't know if its all caught up with me now I've stop panicking about him being ok. :-\ I hate the fact my brain reminds me the second I open my eyes that he's gone and I feel so sick. I wish I could fast forward a few months.
That's only natural Sam, you're grieving :'( :'( :'(
I wish we could all take the pain away for you :luv:
Thinking of you :bigarmhug:
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I am missing Barney terribly today. :'(
I don't know if its all caught up with me now I've stop panicking about him being ok. :-\ I hate the fact my brain reminds me the second I open my eyes that he's gone and I feel so sick. I wish I could fast forward a few months.
That's only natural Sam, you're grieving :'( :'( :'(
I wish we could all take the pain away for you :luv:
Thinking of you :bigarmhug:
Helen is right, you really are grieving and it is just one of those things that you have to get through :'( :'( The only thing is to keep busy with your other lovely doggies and in time you will find it doesn't hurt quite so much. :bigarmhug:
You know you have done the best thing for all of them, it is just a shame that they couldn't all get on :'(
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It's a hard process but you have to go through it hun, time does help. You never stop missing them, not a day goes by, but it does get easier :-*
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Just to say Sam that Im thinking of you. I always had a soft spot for Barney as I think you got him around about the same time that I got Hurley :luv: :luv:
Im sure it will get easier with time, but for now, I think you have to grieve for him and it's a natural process to go through.
I completely admire you for putting Barney's needs above your own - its a brave brave decision to make :-*