CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: daisy do on June 28, 2009, 09:02:12 PM
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Hello this is daisy do's mum many thanks to everone for your support things are still pretty bad here I do not know how this story will end she bit my O.H.bad yesterday. She has not been spayed because we have to wait until 3 mths after her first season and that will be sept and I am worried it will make her worse even me just loosing my balance and just catching her paw not even treading on it made her angry and go to bite me no growl or curl of mouth just full on BITE I have children about sometimes and this whole situation is really upsetting me I am grateful to Jenny bee she has been wonderful as I have been messageing her and as you probably know Gordo and I are trying to cope with the same problems I hope Lily having her tooth out solves her problem.
I can not believe such beautiful little dog that I love so much can cause so much heartache we will see what tomorrow brings .
Thankyou everyone
Anne xx :'(
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Has she been told off for growling in the past?
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at what age did you get her?
did you take her to training classes and did you start brushing her gently from day one that you got her home?
Mmm What tests is the vet going to do?
How have you dealt with telling her off for something?
sorry for the questions but this is your first post and we don't know very much about your relationship with her.
I'm glad you have taken her to the vet and getting her checked out.
I would wait to see what the vet says, and then get in a behaviourist to see you and her interact etc. This sort of advice can not be given over the internet - what part of the country are you in? as someone might be in your neck of the woods that has seen or knows of a behaviourist that they can recommend
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Firstly, please check that there is nothing wrong with her physically, she could be in pain (hip dysplasia or something else) and this could be her only way of letting you know. :-\
Once you've ruled out any physical problem, then my advice would be to get in a behaviourist who can see first hand the interactions going on and offer advice.
Hope that you can get to the bottom of this soon. :blink:
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Ditto what the others have said plus if the vet mentions rage get another vet. You say there are no warnings for her biting but EVERY dog gives a warning, it may just be that you dont see the signals or she's had to bypass the usual signals if nobody has taken notice of them.
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We have had her from 12 weeks old and when she does anything to be told off for we use the ah ah or time out I have groomed her from the start and also taken her to puppy classes but she has always been nervous of anyone she does not know which is fair enough .I started her at the groomers by just letting her go for a bath and they gave her time to get used to her surroundings I also had a dog trainer in and she said she should not be around children.The vet is doing tests for hip problem and blood tests but said thing do not look good he has put her on pain killers to see if that helps Incas she does have any pain I do not know what else I can do sorry for the long log
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Please dont give up yet and dont despair. There are lots of ways to get through this with time and patience.
Alife, our golden boy, has been seen by two vets who both thought his agression was just behavioural and recommended rehoming etc. But the second vet gave us a month's course of pain killers and after a few days we began to see a real difference. Over the last 3 weeks, he has become more and more relaxed and less growly and snappy, so at least now we know that the "mild" arthritis in his hips is obviously causing him a lot more pain than the vet believed.
If you find the pain killers dont help, then make sure your vet is doing very thorough thyroid testing, as even slight fluctuations can cause agression problems in dogs (but not many vets seem to be aware of this!)
Failing that, find a GOOD behaviourist (APDT registered or similar) to work with you, and also maybe consider some alternative treatment, such as t-touch or bowen technique which can really help stressed dogs.
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She has had a go at my OH and myself this morning and is now sulking in her bed she goes off her food when she is like this and sometimes wets herself after she has got so aggressive I did mention thyroid but he said... . she has no other signs it is that .This has been going in for quite a while now and getting worse she just goes straight in for the bite no growl and does not curl the lip or show her teeth she has bitten my OH twice and we have grandchildren it is very worrying as I look after one of them and she is only 3yrs.. I am doing my best to sort it out and will go to the next stage after the vet a behaviorist that is a problem how do you know they are reputable
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If they are ADPT registered, they SHOULD be pretty good - you can find a list on here.
Or if you tell us which area you live in, someone on here may be able to advise you of a good local person.
Re. your grandchildren, obviously you cant take any chances and should keep the dog shut in a different room, or crated, until you get it sorted. It might be worth training her to wear a muzzle, for trips to the vet etc. (put treats in the bottom of the muzzle and let her put her face into it - dont strap it on for the first few times etc.)
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She has had a go at my OH and myself this morning and is now sulking in her bed she goes off her food when she is like this and sometimes wets herself after she has got so aggressive I did mention thyroid but he said... . she has no other signs it is that .This has been going in for quite a while now and getting worse she just goes straight in for the bite no growl and does not curl the lip or show her teeth she has bitten my OH twice and we have grandchildren it is very worrying as I look after one of them and she is only 3yrs.. I am doing my best to sort it out and will go to the next stage after the vet a behaviorist that is a problem how do you know they are reputable
Going off her food and wetting herself after the incidents are classic signs of stress/fear reactions. It may not make any sense to you what she is doing but it will to her. Ask your vet to do a full blood and thyroid tests, not just the usual basics......
In the meantime Stuffster has given very good advice.
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Hi and welcome to COL :blink:
I have lived with a dog who also would give no warning before biting, it can be scary and I know what you are going through. Even if she turns out to be physically healthy, she is still a young dog and I believe that with the correct help from a behaviourist this is something that can be worked through. As Jo says, the not eating/wetting herself is a sign of fear - I know dogs go through a fear stage at around your girl's age which I guess could be making things worse for her, especially if there's an underlying problem :-\.
This forum offers amazing support and advice, there are many of us who have had similar problems so we are always here to listen if you need us.
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Going off her food and wetting herself after the incidents are classic signs of stress/fear reactions. It may not make any sense to you what she is doing but it will to her. Ask your vet to do a full blood and thyroid tests, not just the usual basics......
In the meantime Stuffster has given very good advice.
Agree 100% ;)
In the meantime (while you wait for vet results and finding a good behaviourist) You can put her on Rescue Remedy or Emergency Essence. They are flower essences, 100% safe and will help her with fear/stress issues. You can put a dropperful in her drinking water. I can't recommend this enough! It really does help.
Now comes the hard part :005: You need to work on your own actions, behaviour and attitude around her. Keep eveything very soft, calm and low key, but at the same time very upbeat. Talk to her lots, just sort of narrate the day for her. Watch for stress signals:
http://www.wagntrain.com/BodyLanguage2.htm
http://www.natural-pet-care.com/natural-pet-health-blog/signs-of-stress-in-dogs/
This will sound silly but lick your lips a lot when you are around her and don't look her full in the face, look just slightly off to the side; these are called calming signals that reassure her that everything is ok and your intentions are peaceful
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/calmingsignals.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7BWxC6iVs
And very difficult, sounds counterintuitive, but very important: don't react when she bites you (or tryyour very best to minimize the reaction) At most say "How ridiculous!" but carry on with whatever you were doing (if it does not involve handling her)
You can also try this:
http://home.att.net/~vlea/THE_JOLLY_ROUTINE.htm
Wishing you success and please do get some professional help :-*
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*****************UPDATE*******************
I’m writing this update on behalf of Anne (Daisy Do)
Daisy has been seen by a behaviourist who has diagnosed her as having fear aggression. He is working with Anne and her OH to help them overcome her problems. Unfortunately in the last two days Daisy has went for four people, including Anne and her OH - with whom she managed to draw blood. Anne, as you can imagine, is very upset and worried and desperately needs some support from the good folk of COL. Anne, her OH and Daisy are all going through a terrible time and would appreciate everyone’s positive thoughts to help them through it :luv:
Thanks, Jenny xxx
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Really hope that Daisy manages to overcome her problems... :luv:
Positive thoughts on their way from Hampshire!
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(((hugs))) and positive thoughts are on their way from here :luv:
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Positive thoughts for Daisy on their way from Suffolk.
Hope you can get the problems sorted - it is obviously such a worry for everyone involved.
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Sending positive thoughts, hope you can work through Daisy's problems.
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I really feel for you as I dont know how I would cope in a situation like this but I'm sending all the positive thoughts I can for you and Daisy.... :luv:
Amanda x
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:luv: Sending love and positive thoughts for Daisy, Ann and her OH.
I really hope they can work through the problems for all their sakes :luv:
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Big hugs to Ann, her OH and wee Daisy. Glad you have taken the first step. Lots of positive wishes.
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Sorry to hear you're going through this with Daisy.
Thinking of you all - I've pm'd you.
xx
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Positive thoughts from here. So sorry that you're having such a dreadful time, but it sounds like you're doing everything possible to help Daisy.
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Is she spayed, or could she be hormonal? There was a post about this the other day. Just a thought. Poor you, we are thinking of you.
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Sending positive thoughts to you, OH and Daisy. I really hope that Daisy's problems can be overcome. :luv:
Just a thought, but have you spoken to the breeder about Daisy? :huh:
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Positive thoughts + big hugs from us to all of you.
Hope things settle quickly for you.
Jo.xx
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Just a thought, but have you spoken to the breeder about Daisy? :huh:
She came from a house, there's a bit of doubt over how reputable they were - it would explain a lot if it turned out she was from a puppy farm :-\. Not sure if she's been spayed, it's something I've wondered myself. Hopefully Anne will be able to tell us the next time she's on :D
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I just want to say I hope you manage to get the right help to overcome Daisys issues. She sounds very similar to Charlie when we got him, he has much improved with time and lots of help and support.
Has anyone suggested zyklene or scullcap and valerian?
Hope she calms quickly for you.
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I just want to say I hope you manage to get the right help to overcome Daisys issues. She sounds very similar to Charlie when we got him, he has much improved with time and lots of help and support.
Has anyone suggested zyklene or scullcap and valerian?
Hope she calms quickly for you.
She's been on Zylkene for a few days, I don't know how long it takes before it has any effect?
Thanks everyone, I know Anne's really going to appreciate all your support :luv:
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How distressing for all of you, please don't give up we really are all supporting you 100%
Lynne
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I just want to say I hope you manage to get the right help to overcome Daisys issues. She sounds very similar to Charlie when we got him, he has much improved with time and lots of help and support.
Has anyone suggested zyklene or scullcap and valerian?
Hope she calms quickly for you.
She's been on Zylkene for a few days, I don't know how long it takes before it has any effect?
Thanks everyone, I know Anne's really going to appreciate all your support :luv:
Zylkene can take up to a month to show its effects
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Sending lots of positive thoughts to Daisy and family. :-*
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Me too - must be very upsetting - hope more positive news after behaviourists input.
Best wishes
Lynne :luv:
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Hoping Daisy and her family and the behaviourist can help sort out this awful situation to everyones satisfaction. Hope the meds work too.
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Wishing you lots of love and positive thoughts. I know how stressful it can be, looks like you have a good Vet and Behaviourist on your side so I hope you get all the support you need. :luv: ;)
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I am sending you all my love and positive thoughts. I hope this little one will come right for you. I know how desperate you must feel.
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So glad to hear that the reason behind daisy's out bursts has been found and that you are working hard with her along with a behaviourist. It's not going to be an easy ride I am sure, so loads of positive thoughts from here and hope the bites were not too bad :luv: :-*
Take care and good luck thinking of you :luv:
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Sending you all our cyber support and hugs!
Difficult time for you, but with your determination and love of Daisy, I hope you see some improvement very soon and she can relax and be happy again!
Linda and Baxter
X
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Anne has asked me to thank everyone for their support, both her and her OH really appreciate it :luv:. She has told me that Daisy has not been spayed so I guess that could be a factor? She will be phoning the vet at the start of the week to ask if Daisy had a complete screening of her thyroid function when she was checked over.....
Thank you everyone, I hope it is some comfort to Anne to know she has our support :luv: :luv:
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Just seen this. I hope little Daisy can be helped, positive thoughts from me too. :-*
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Anne has asked me to thank everyone for their support, both her and her OH really appreciate it :luv:. She has told me that Daisy has not been spayed so I guess that could be a factor? She will be phoning the vet at the start of the week to ask if Daisy had a complete screening of her thyroid function when she was checked over.....
Thank you everyone, I hope it is some comfort to Anne to know she has our support :luv: :luv:
Just my opinion but i don't think that spaying Daisy at this moment in time will help the situation. :huh: Please pass on to Ann that i am keeping fingers crossed that with all the help/advice she receives, that Daisy improves. :luv:
I also think she should tell the breeder about the situation, as it is possible for behaviour issue's to be 'passed down the line', even from previous generations i.e grandparents etc... I am not saying this is the case with Daisy but the breeder should be told.
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Just my opinion but i don't think that spaying Daisy at this moment in time will help the situation. :huh:
Sorry I didn't write that very clearly ph34r. I meant that she's not been spayed so may be about to come into season, I know that this can cause drastic changes in a dog's behaviour?
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Hugs :luv: :luv:
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Hi, Anne tried to post on here but things went a bit wrong, here's what she wrote in case anyone missed it:
Hello this is daisy do's mum many thanks to everone for your support things are still pretty bad here I do not know how this story will end she bit my O.H.bad yesterday. She has not been spayed because we have to wait until 3 mths after her first season and that will be sept and I am worried it will make her worse even me just loosing my balance and just catching her paw not even treading on it made her angry and go to bite me no growl or curl of mouth just full on BITE I have children about sometimes and this whole situation is really upsetting me I am grateful to Jenny bee she has been wonderful as I have been messageing her and as you probably know Gordo and I are trying to cope with the same problems I hope Lily having her tooth out solves her problem.
I can not believe such beautiful little dog that I love so much can cause so much heartache we will see what tomorrow brings .
Thankyou everyone
Anne xx :'(
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She has my number if she wants to use it ;)
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Just read the full post. Sending hugs & positive thoughts for a good outcome with Daisy.
Jo & Milly xx
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I spoke to Anne on Sunday and gave her the name of someone local to her who is an aggression specialist to get a second oppinion.
Really trust this ladies judgement as she was one of my college tutors and certainly someone I would travel along way to see myself.
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Oh Anne - I have only just realised from your PM who you are :luv: I hope you are all OK. Mason & I send lots and lots of love and good wishes to you and yours :luv: :luv:
You have certainly come to the right place. If the COL clan can't get you and Daisy through this then no-one can. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help :luv: :luv:
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Thankyou I have P.M.'d you I only wish things could be fine again
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sorry everyone I am not good with these things(laptops :005:)can anyone help me Daisy has got better with the grooming but she is still giving my O.H. a bad time he cannot speak to me be near me (in the same room) as me she gets very cross growling barking and this morning she ran and jumped up his leg to bite his arm he just managed to move it up out of the way I had to tell him to get into the bathroom so I could get her outside to calm down when she came in she was still growling I am almost sure she is now guarding me and it is making life hell :'(you do'nt know what she is going to kick off about next and she really means it it's scary :o I am going to ring another behaviorist that top barks gave me could not get her last week to speak to just wondered if anyone can help me I am very worried at the latest thing Daisy is doing we cannot live like this :'( :'(Ihave my daughter and her two children staying next week for a week I am VERY WORRIED will I ever get my little girl back!!!she is beautiful I know she is in there somewhere.Sorry for the long post
Lol to all Anne xx Daisy :-*
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Anne, I feel so sorry for you all, I really wish there was something I could do to help :-* :luv:. :bigarmhug: to you and your OH and Daisy, I know how much she means to you :luv: :luv: :luv:
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Anne, I feel so sorry for you all, I really wish there was something I could do to help :-* :luv:. :bigarmhug: to you and your OH and Daisy, I know how much she means to you :luv: :luv: :luv:
Ditto. I wish with all my heart there was something i could do to help. :'( Please don't give up on Daisy, and i hope that another behavourist can help you all. :luv:
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sorry everyone I am not good with these things(laptops :005:)can anyone help me Daisy has got better with the grooming but she is still giving my O.H. a bad time he cannot speak to me be near me (in the same room) as me she gets very cross growling barking and this morning she ran and jumped up his leg to bite his arm he just managed to move it up out of the way I had to tell him to get into the bathroom so I could get her outside to calm down when she came in she was still growling I am almost sure she is now guarding me and it is making life hell :'(you do'nt know what she is going to kick off about next and she really means it it's scary :o I am going to ring another behaviorist that top barks gave me could not get her last week to speak to just wondered if anyone can help me I am very worried at the latest thing Daisy is doing we cannot live like this :'( :'(Ihave my daughter and her two children staying next week for a week I am VERY WORRIED will I ever get my little girl back!!!she is beautiful I know she is in there somewhere.Sorry for the long post
Lol to all Anne xx Daisy :-*
Forums are of limited use in a case like yours, you need professional help from someone who deals with aggression sooner rather than later. ;)
Is Daisy insured?
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No she is not,we enquired about it but they asked had she had any behavior problems(and this as you know been going on for months now)and if I had said no any claim would be void it has already cost us a lot of money in vet fees and different behaviorists we are trying so hard to sort things out sometimes I feel it is to much.