CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: angie68 on July 10, 2009, 02:33:07 PM
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Hi
i wonder if anyone has any ideas to help me.
Connie is 2 & has always had grumpy times where she would growl, such as if she does not want to be picked up, she recently snapped at me when she had stolen chewing gum & she went under the table to hide, when i went to grab her she snapped. Today we were out in the front garden and she wandererd off to see a neighbour & when i went to get her she ran around the garden barking and laying low & wagging her tail, as i went to grab her she jumped up snapped and ran off. I finally enticed her with a twix & when i went to pick her up she was growling and as i grabbed her collar i was quite worried thinking she was going to go for me. she was very tense and moaned/growled until i put her indoors. She seemed to know i was cross and she was laying on the settee looking at me a bit like she knew she had been bad.
Sorry it's a long saga but i feel really sad today wondering what's going wrong and i need some idea's please.
Thanks
Angie
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I'm sure someone more experienced will be along with advice, but the one thing I would say is to avoid grabbing her. Maybe it would be a good idea for her to wear a houseline so you can gently control her without physically touching her :D.
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don't worry someone will be along to give you some good help with this.
I am no expert, but when i first got my boy he was six month old ( been returned back to the breeder)
he was a bit like you have said i just tried not to take it to hart, and when ever he looked like he may snap
at me i said in a loud voice uuut uuut this seamed to work, he know longer snaps
but he is very vocal, and he makes all sorts of grumbling and growly nosies i just ignore him
Good luck and i hope you get the answers you need from others
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Hi
i wonder if anyone has any ideas to help me.
Connie is 2 & has always had grumpy times where she would growl, such as if she does not want to be picked up, she recently snapped at me when she had stolen chewing gum & she went under the table to hide, when i went to grab her she snapped. Today we were out in the front garden and she wandererd off to see a neighbour & when i went to get her she ran around the garden barking and laying low & wagging her tail, as i went to grab her she jumped up snapped and ran off. I finally enticed her with a twix & when i went to pick her up she was growling and as i grabbed her collar i was quite worried thinking she was going to go for me. she was very tense and moaned/growled until i put her indoors. She seemed to know i was cross and she was laying on the settee looking at me a bit like she knew she had been bad.
Sorry it's a long saga but i feel really sad today wondering what's going wrong and i need some idea's please.
Thanks
Angie
What as in the chocolate bar twix? You don't actually feed twix's to your dog do you? Or is "twix" some dog treat I've not heard of?
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No i don't feed her twix bars she eats hills science plan food but it was the nearest thing to hand to tempt her but she did not get to eat it.
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most of us new that :005: :005:
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No i don't feed her twix bars she eats hills science plan food but it was the nearest thing to hand to tempt her but she did not get to eat it.
He he good to hear - anyway I wasn't much help was I! :005:
Only thing I'd suggest and this is making a lot of assumptions is that your dog appears to have a bit of an issue when you go to grab her. The things I would try would be to work hard on recall type things, calling her towards you, treating her loads etc etc. To really reinforce the message that going to you and you going to her brings wonderful things, rather than a grab of the collar, or being picked up (which she by the sounds of it doesn't like much)
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Growling is a means of communication so if your dog is growling at you it means she's trying to tell you something - generally that she's not comfortable with what's going on. If you ignore these warnings (which in dog communication are polite, controlled warnings) it can leave the dog with no option other than to escalate to snapping or biting. What you want to do is mainly to find out why she feels uncomfortable and why she feels like she has to give these warnings in the first place and while you do this you want to avoid putting her in these situations as far as possible.
From what you've posted I think it's clear that your girl does not like it when you grab at her, and understandably so, a lot of, if not most dogs find this intimidating and confrontational. Instead of going after her and grabbing at her in these situations you need to entice her to come to you - you have to make coming to you a pleasant and worthwhile experience for her and to do this you can use your voice, your body language, toys and/or food or anything else you can think of that she really likes and is rewarding for her. If she takes something you don't want her to have grab a toy or treat (it helps to keep some really special stuff that she loves but only gets in this situation) and make out like it's the best thing EVER! If she's a typical Cocker (which it sounds like she is!) she won't be able to resist coming to investigate and then you can praise her for being a good girl and coming to you rather than grabbing at her for running away.
As suggested a house line would be a good idea for her, this is a lightweight piece of cord which you attach to the dog's collar and which they wear trailing after them at all times in the house, it means that if she is in a potentially dangerous situation and you have to move her you can do it in a non-confrontational way without having to actually touch her and you can then again praise her when she does what's required.
I think it would be a good idea for you to work on your general relationship with Connie too, try some fun training exercises with her and play with her lots to reinforce the bond and trust between you. If she sees you as the source of good things in her life she will enjoy being with you and she will trust you.
One last thing, dogs don't know they've done something wrong or that they've been 'bad' after the event. They are very good at reading our body language and reacting to it though so if we come home to find they've chewed the chair and we're angry the dog may well look like they're grovelling and that they're 'sorry' but they will only be reacting to our angry body language in this instant and be trying to appease us, they won't have made the connection between us being angry now and the chair that they chewed an hour ago; they'll know that we're angry but won't understand why. Dogs live in the moment and don't feel guilt or remorse for things they've done in the past, no matter how recent that past is.
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Great advice from Nicola - I had a rescue who snapped and bit me when she stole my mobile and ran under the table, and I grabbed her collar to pull her out. First and last time she did this (although she habitually 'stole' things for the rest of her life) as I soon learned to get her to swap what I wanted back for something more appropriate (food mainly!) instead of physically trying to get her/take it back - we just really worked on her recall and 'drop it' command - was never perfect and she often growled/guarded things but the offer of a treat soon made her forget the growling/guarding (until the next thing she nicked!). Good luck.
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Agree with absolutely everything Nicola said.
Think of it from Connie's point of view... you are at an all you can eat buffet, but everytime you try and get some of the sweet and sour chicken the waiter races over and takes it off you - you're going to start feeling really protective about that sweet and sour chicken and try and keep that waiter away from it - you would probably also complain. Or in another situation.... you are walking down the street and this strange woman keeps coming up to you and pushing you in a different direction. You'd pretty soon get very angry and possibly lash out at the woman.
Connie doesn't view her having things that you don't want her to as stealing them - she has no concept of property rights... so she is finding a treasure and then warning you to stay away from it. She doesn't understand why you are "grabbing" her and is telling you to stay clear of her.
As well as trading goods (and if you are trading she really does need to get the treat (and for it to be something better for her than a twix) otherwise her trust in you will diminish) you can try teaching a "leave it" command - I was able to use this to stop Honey bothering a mole the other morning, something she had never seen before in her life!
In general it is better to avoid confrontation with dogs - it puts them in the position where the only option they have is to lash out at us...
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Thanks for all your advice.
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Good post Nic, sounded like that came right out of a dog behaviour book. *insert clapping smiley here* ;)
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Good post Nic, sounded like that came right out of a dog behaviour book. *insert clapping smiley here* ;)
:clapping:
there you go
...and I completely agree with Nic and Karma too
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great advice from Nicola and can I just add that I have learnt so much about why dogs growl and give warnings from reading the book Bones would rain from the Sky. Helen recommended it me but its actually on the recommended book list on COL. It really is an eye-opener and I couldn't recommend it highly enough.
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great advice from Nicola and can I just add that I have learnt so much about why dogs growl and give warnings from reading the book Bones would rain from the Sky. Helen recommended it me but its actually on the recommended book list on COL. It really is an eye-opener and I couldn't recommend it highly enough.
I'm really glad you liked it Sue - sorry I didn't warn you about potentially sobbing through the last chapter :'(
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Good post Nic, sounded like that came right out of a dog behaviour book. *insert clapping smiley here* ;)
:clapping:
there you go
...and I completely agree with Nic and Karma too
Why thank you :P :005:
great advice from Nicola and can I just add that I have learnt so much about why dogs growl and give warnings from reading the book Bones would rain from the Sky. Helen recommended it me but its actually on the recommended book list on COL. It really is an eye-opener and I couldn't recommend it highly enough.
I'm really glad you liked it Sue - sorry I didn't warn you about potentially sobbing through the last chapter :'(
It's a really great book and I'd also recommend 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson to anyone who hasn't read it and for situations like this 'Mine!' by the same author is a must-read too.
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Great advice from Nicola and I love Karma's analogies.
When Mollie came to us at 11 months she did everything you've mentioned and more, including trying to bite us. I'd never heard of COL at the time and had to work things out for myself, having had no experience with a bolshie dog with issues. Grabbing Mollie when she'd been thieving was, as I soon found out, dangerous. At the time I thought you had to dominate the dog and the one time I tried it both Mollie and I were terrified. Being a non-confrontational person, I soon learned that if (a) Mollie didn't like being cornered - I just never cornered her and (b) if she had something of mine (which was a zillion times a day) I could get it from her by giving her a treat. At first I thought this was bribery and corruption and just not on, but then realised it worked - which was good enough for me. I negotiate by making her want what I have or can do for her, and remember that for her there's no past and no future - life is lived in the moment.
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Thanks cockertime blues, your comments really helped. I already feel better & positive.
Connie is lovely, a real mummy's girl & is really good most of the time :lol2:
I will keep everyone posted on how it goes.
Angie
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Excellent advice from Nicola and Karma! no need for me on this behaviour board any more ;) :005:
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Of course there is! :D
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Of course there is! :D
Twas a compliment Karma my dear! :lol2: ;) I ain't going Knowhere :005:
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Hi,
I have just ordered the book Bones would rain from the Sky,
Thank you as it sounds like a good book
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Hi,
I have just ordered the book Bones would rain from the Sky,
Thank you as it sounds like a good book
it's not a dog training book by any means but I thought it was a fascinating read - just get the tissues ready for the end of the book :'( :'(