CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Duke on March 31, 2010, 09:45:45 PM
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Can someone tell me how you tell the difference between the 2.. Working/show we wanted a show cocker but i think he is a working? Are orange roan workers? :-\
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This link will help you http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=40635.0
Although a reputable breeder/rescue would be very open about what type you are getting? Have you got photos, they may help us :D
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The easiest way to tell is from a pedigree - if it's a kosher one. Can you post his pedigree?
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Here is the thread with the pictures of Duke in;
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=71173.msg1051537#msg1051537
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from those pics I'd say show x worker but if you do have his pedigree then we could tell you more ;)
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Are orange roan workers? :-\
Both Show types and workers come in Orange roan... What makes you now think he could be a worker?
The pedigree is the key as has already been posted but Duke doesn't look that different to my Jasper at a similar age. You'll have to excuse the pic but I don't have many as these were given to me by his first owner (I didn't have him until he was 9 months old). Jasper is definately all show type
Jasper
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/jaspersmum/dog1.jpg
your pic of Duke
http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae45/wareing68/Duke/Dukeonfloor1.jpg
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Pure workers don't come as Orange Roan - they would be registered as Lemon Roan, and are normally paler in colour.
Honey is an Orange Roan, and is 3/4 worker... she had a litter mate who was very much paler and was registered as Lemon Roan. I just say she got her colour from her show 1/4... ;)
This is a pic of Honey as a pup (click on thumbnail for a larger picture)
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e342/KarmaViolet/th_S7000557.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e342/KarmaViolet/?action=view¤t=S7000557.jpg)
As others have said, the key to knowing is going to be what names appear on his pedigree... :D
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from those pics I'd say show x worker but if you do have his pedigree then we could tell you more ;)
Id agree. His ears look like worked ears but are quite low set which is usually found in the show one. But its very difficult to tell when hes young. And Im comparing him to my working cockers.
My pups 4 months and he looks very similar face to him (nose shape). Her mum was orange roan and registered as lemon roan and shes full worker. But from her colouring Id say she was more orange than lemon. She was too dark in colour to be considered Lemon
I wonder if your is related to my pup somewhere along the lines.
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Thanks for all the replys but still undecided, Duke parents mother a show and father a worker so he may have both. My friend had a liver roan worker and duke looks similar to me..
All i know on his pedigree is that he is a 5 generation, He is not KC registered because his mother was and his father wasn't and he is def a Orange Roan.
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Thanks for all the replys but still undecided, Duke parents mother a show and father a worker so he may have both. My friend had a liver roan worker and duke looks similar to me..
All i know on his pedigree is that he is a 5 generation, He is not KC registered because his mother was and his father wasn't and he is def a Orange Roan.
I'm not following this, you've stated the mothers a show and fathers a worker so you know hes a half show/half worker. :huh:
I think hes gorgeous anyway but if you wanted a show, did you know his father was worker before you got him.
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Well you have your answer there, don't you?
He's (at least) a half and half.
Without the pedigree it's impossible to know whether the Dam has any worker lines in her pedigree and likewise the Sire may have show in his....
I'm not sure what you mean by "he is a 5 generation" - all pups have 5 (and more) generations before them!! As he's not KC registered, I take it you have no copy of his pedigree (which is what would normally be referred to as the 5 Generation thing - you get a certificate naming all ancestors going back 5 generations!).
I suggest you read up on the many threads there have been about working cockers and their needs. We found forewarned was forearmed with Honey, and taking proactive steps in the early days to keep her mentally stimulated has saved us a lot of stress as time has gone by....
Is the Sire actually worked? How driven is he? This might give you a clue as to the potential energy levels of your little guy!
:luv:
(posted at the same time as Jeanette!)
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Hi, I think there are a lot of similarity's between Duke and my Poppy. She is 18 weeks, poppy's mum was full show, but her dad was half show half worker, have a look through Duke's pedigree thats how we found out about Poppy's parents because her breeder told us she was full show, it even had a shch in her pedigree on her fathers side that we found out should of actually read ftch, we searched the names on the internet, Duke looks very handsome looking at his pics :luv:
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Sorry if i am confusing every one yes think he is half and half, the breeder we got him off stated that when the mother has pups they usually end up more of a show cocker........ His pedigree states Great grandparents sire SH CH which i gather is show champion, Dam SC CH which is same.... GT-GREAT-GRANDPARENTS just says sire FT CH which i gather is field champion nothing for Dam...
Yes he does look like Honey and Jasper...
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FT is working seems your pup has both strains in him. :D
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Yep FT CH is working strain and SH CH is Show strain. He looks gorgeous anyway. :luv: Whatever he is, so enjoy him. :D
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Sorry if i am confusing every one yes think he is half and half, the breeder we got him off stated that when the mother has pups they usually end up more of a show cocker
But if the dam is show strain and she'd been mated to a worker the resulting pups are going to be half and half, they can't be more show - what a bizarre thing for the breeder to say. :dunno: Why was she using a worker as a stud to her show strain anyway, did she say ?
Dam SC CH which is same....
I'm not sure if I've misunderstood you here but I very much doubt that any breeder who had a Sh Ch would mate their bitch with a Working Cocker ( just as someone with a FTCH bitch wouldn't mate her to a show Cocker). Tbh going from the info you've posted it doesn't seem like this breeder is a good one at all I'm afraid. :-\
Your pup is very cute though and I hope you have a long and happy life with him - but you will need to be prepared for him potentially needing a lot more mental stimulation than a show Cocker. That's not to say that show lines are always less lively but generally speaking Cockers with close working lines in their pedigree will likely need to be given direction for their natural energies.
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My blue roan, Louie, is 1/4 worker, his mum was 50:50 show:worker, dad all show. Although he looks a lot like his dad, his working drive is soooo much greater than the other 3 who are all show strain. That's not to say they can't give chase to poor Lou and be in the thick cover with him but Lou needs to be there and hunting EVERY time you go out for a walk. As Karma said above, forewarned and preparation are definitely the key to keeping ahead of the game ;)
I imagine that the breeder must of meant that the pups usually look a bit more show type rather than working, unfortunately I wouldn't like to predict that the genes follow suit
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Thanks for all the info, looks like i havn't chose a good breeder, he does show more strain in a worker... Anyway he loves :luv: me and i love :luv: him no matter what ............
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It's probably best to forget the breeder and move on, it's also good you asked the question while he's still so young as it will make you more prepared. Quite a few COL members have show/working Cockers, many more have full workers and they'll be more than happy to give help on what's required if need be. :shades: