CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: ginnygirl on September 28, 2010, 07:06:47 PM
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Hi I am feeling very sad as Ginny may have to be rehomed. In the last 3 weeks she has gone for 3 dogs whilst out walking and last night she went for our yorkie Marcus. She had him pinned down and was holding his kneck, he was really screaming and trying to get away. She wouldnt leave him and I had to physically seperate them. I thought she had injured his shoulder but he is okay. These attacks appear motiveless and I cant predict them happening. It is a nightmare as I am now having to keep Marcus seperate from Ginny as he is so small he could easily be injured fatally. Poor Bella our 6 month old pup was quite traumatised and confused when last nights incident happened as Marcus was squealing and my daughter was really upset to
She has 'snacked' at me and my Dad also recently when asked to do something she doesnt want to do....like getting of the settee.
I feel realy sad and guilty about rehoming her but I dont feel I can trust her. She is a lovely dog apart from this, has anyone else had experiences like this? She and Marcus usually love each other; they snuggle up together to sleep :huh: :'(
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when you say gone for was blood drawn/vet treatment needed on any of the dogs?
What was happening before ginny "went for them?"
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I think before deciding on a course of action think strongly about have your dog thouroughly checked by a vet and then be referred to a behaviour councillor who may be able to help.
With issues of aggression it is so important you get the right advice and quickly.
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No blood drawn and no vet treatment needed. on the occasions where we were out walking she just attacked the dogs, two of them she had met and been ok with before. There did not appear to be any reason for her to do this, one little border terrier ran away near her owner and Ginny ran at her again. There had been no incidents for over a week and then this one with Marcus last night. We had been out for our walk and they were lying around in the kitchen whilst I prepared tea, i did not see the moment it began as i wasnt looking in their direction everything was peaceful and then she had grabbed him and wouldnt let go; she was using her paws to hold him to. There were no chews or anything in the vicinity; I have no idea what triggered it. Marcus is a very calm little dog who isnt a pest, you hardly know he's there.
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How much individual walks and training do you do with her?
ireally wouldnt call it an attack if there was no blood etc
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Has she had her first season yet?
I was wondering if she was feeling a little 'hormonal' / under the weather and resenting other dogs being near her :huh:
Do you know the sex of all the dogs she has attacked? Is it only males she has fought??
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How old is she? Have you had from a pup? As Topbarks said you should really get her checked out by a vet first, if something is causing her pain it may be making her act strangely.
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Thanks mark I think I will check her out at the vet.
I spoke to a lady at a rescue place and she is of the oppinion that working cockers should not be in homes and feels she is a frustrated dog and this is how it is manifesting itself; she also said she gaurantees i will have the same problems with Bella my other working cocker.
I feel so bad about the situation I have cried loads today.
Ginny along with my other dogs gets two good walks a day and loves to do training in the house for treats; I was too scared to take Marcus with us today and am keeping them seperate in the house.
I was also asked Ginnys colour (golden/red) i am wondering if this is also a factor. Last time I was at my vets we chatted about the difference in temperament between Ginny and Bella (who is black) as bella is so calm and Ginny is like a whirlwind and the vet suggested this may be due to her colour.
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There is absolutly no colleration between behaviour and colour.
TBH I do think she sounds frustrated which could be because of her hormons or could be because she not getting enough stimulation.
She really needs walks and training on her own away from the dogs.
Working cockers can live in a house, I have six that do but for them to make good pets they need their needs met both mentally and physically and need one on one time. They also need something to do.
I would definitely get her vet checked but by having three dogs under 13mths there not always going to get along and will have spats.
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Forgive me for being blunt - yes I think she is a frustrated and bored working cocker, yes I believe that 3 dogs so close in age together is not a good idea and Ginny is of an age where problems are more likely to start occurring now and no, I don't believe it is ANYTHING to do with her colour. She probably just has a higher work drive than your young puppy (but your 6 month old could well change over the next few months as she matures too)
Because they are so close in age your 2 cockers should be walked and trained outdoors separately for a start ;)
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I know what you mean by no blood but her whole stance is very aggressive and she just would not let go of Marcus. She has had a go at male and females, of different breeds and sizes; a lab, a cocker and a border terrier...and then Marcus.
i think I will be going to the vet tomorrow, I had thought of this but she seems well and happy otherwise......she is snuggled up to me while I type....as if butter wouldnt melt.
I have noticed since she turned one she has become calmer lying around in the house more than she used to.....settling down earlier in the evening. This is why I am surprised and upset at the recent events.
she is usually walked with my other two dogs, I do training with her a few times a week individually, just at home, she does things like pressing a button when asked in order to get a treat. Their walks are off lead in the woods and round a lake area. Her recall is great and she will sit , with the other two when asked while horses and bikes pass.
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She was spayed before her first season on advice from vet
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Working cockers need a little more mental stimulation than a few sessions round the house each week. Have you thought about taking up a doggy hobby to keep her active mind focused? As well as helping you rebuild your trust in her. Its also worth thinking about this for Bella as well as she'll need an outlet as wel pretty soon
Its prob best speaking to a local behaviourist about it all. Preferably one expereinced at dealing with cockers or working gun dogs. They will be able to assess her much better than we can from your description on here and then recomend an approach for dealing with her.
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Thankyou all for your advice.
I feel really bad about this situation and think I have misjudged how much stimulation Ginny needs.
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Thankyou all for your advice.
I feel really bad about this situation and think I have misjudged how much stimulation Ginny needs.
It will be Bella too.
Seth is a similar age to her and he hardly ever gets walked with the other dogs and he will stay like that until hes at least 18mths.
I had two pups close together in age but walked and trained them completely separately.
If I were you I really would start taking your dogs out individually at least once a day at their age.
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I spoke to a lady at a rescue place and she is of the oppinion that working cockers should not be in homes and feels she is a frustrated dog and this is how it is manifesting itself; she also said she gaurantees i will have the same problems with Bella my other working cocker.
I feel so bad about the situation I have cried loads today.
Sorry but I don't think that was particularly helpful at all and I would of hoped that first and foremost they would of said the same as the suggestions here about checking health and getting a GOOD behaviourist to check whats happened if this is a sudden change in character!
I have 4 dogs who are close in age, admittedly they are show type (just a 25% touch of worker in one), the gold is hyper and gobby but the black's not that far behind her! There have been lots of times I've questioned their colour for behaviour but actually, it's more often them sorting out a grumble of one of the little ones getting above their status or one of them not being well and not wanting someone in their face. I do try to make sure that I split who's walking with who and what they are doing. All 4 went out together today and the gobby 2 pestered Lou constantly and deserved a good telling off, he didn't but it could easily turn if it were allowed everyday and he never got a break and I wouldn't blame him in the slightest.
You need to find someone to come and observe before you do anything rash after you rule out any medical problem :bigarmhug:
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Thanks Jenny
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I agree about getting Ginny checked by a vet and enlisting the help of a good behaviourist/working dog trainer but you definitely need to do lots of individual walks and training - this is important anyway but also because a 13 month old working Cocker, a 6 month old working Cocker and a 9/10(?) month old Yorkie do not have the same exercise requirements. Exercise/training that's sufficient and stimulating enough for Ginny is going to be too much for the other two and if you tailor their exercise to the younger/smaller dogs then she's not getting her needs met.
Forget about the colour thing, I have a gold worker and a red one and behaviour is nothing to do with colour. I also think it sounds like Ginny is frustrated and she's now at an age where she's going to start showing it more. She needs proper, individual training and work put into her - as does Bella or you may well find yourself facing similar issues with her in 6 months time.
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Can anyone recommend a good working dog trainer in tyne & wear ?
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How far can you travel? I'll pm you.
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I am happy to travel an up to an hour or so to see someone who can give good advice, I'm in Gateshead.
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Good luck Julie and Ginny :bigarmhug: Your mind must be all over the place just now but I'm sure you will get over this hurdle with the right help. I hope you find the best trainer/behaviourist ;)
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Hope you get the help needed soon :luv: I'm sure it will work out just fine. Please don't listen to the colour issue. I have a red that has some issues but its from her dreadful start in life not her colour. We have worked with her for nearly 5 yrs now and she has come on leaps and bounds :luv: she now shares her home with 4 other cockers and is fab about it....most of the time :005:
Good luck :blink:
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I wouldn't let the vet that suggested Ginny's problem is 'colour' related examine her TBH - first step would be to change vets and hopefully find one that doesn't have a preconceived notion about gold cockers ph34r
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I wouldn't let the vet that suggested Ginny's problem is 'colour' related examine her TBH - first step would be to change vets and hopefully find one that doesn't have a preconceived notion about gold cockers ph34r
Totally agree with this.
A lot of vets are either misinformed or uneducated when it comes to behaviour.
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I wouldn't let the vet that suggested Ginny's problem is 'colour' related examine her TBH - first step would be to change vets and hopefully find one that doesn't have a preconceived notion about gold cockers ph34r
Hi Helen, we weren't discussing this particular problem when she mentioned colour although she did comment about temperament relating to colour when we were talking about Ginny being more lively than Bella.....I take your point though; she owned a sprocker until it died recently to and loves cockers so I felt confident in her as a vet :-\
One of the first questions the woman I spoke to at the rescue asked, was about her colour.
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One of the first questions the woman I spoke to at the rescue asked, was about her colour.
I would hope that was just them being curious rather than trying to say her colour is a factor :-\
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One of the first questions the woman I spoke to at the rescue asked, was about her colour.
I would hope that was just them being curious rather than trying to say her colour is a factor :-\
I felt it was as the questions were all around the behaviour, although she didnt make any comment when I told her the colour, I did mean to ask her directly if thats why she had asked but I was upset and wasn't properly focused
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You've had great advice.
I just wanted to add that Honey was about 10 months when the problems we had started with her - it was a lot of work, as there were behaviour issues from events outside our control, combined with a health issue we weren't aware of until T-Touch picked it up (bad back), alongside a predominantly working cocker going through adolescence.
We HAVE got through it... as long as you're prepared to put in the work (with Ginny, and your younger dog) I'm sure you will too!!
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Hope you manage to find someone who can help you out with Ginny. I too believe a vet visit to rule out any possible medical problem is your first port of call and then definitely a meet witha behaviourist.
I can only agree regarding the comments concerning her colour - dogs are the way they are because of many factors....breeding, training, early interractions, diet, hormones...list is endless....to say her colour is a possible problem is really quite irresponsible and nonsense! My ginger cocker is as calm and cool as a cucumber ;)
Good luck - a good owner is someone who wants to find the best solution for their dog - whatever that may be :luv:
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Hi there,
Sorry for what you're going through. You've had good advice on here and very questionable advice from the vet and rescue lady.
I so hope you are able to work through this and don't go the rehoming route. I would probably have rehomed Mollie once a week by now (she's black BTW) for doing what Ginny's doing, but I never felt like I could pass the problem on. (Our 2 dogs, one of whom is a worker and one a worker/show x, are the same age, and they fought regularly for a year or more until Alfie figured out who's the boss and that it's not him.) Mollie will also kick off with some strange dogs she meets but this is mostly because they are overly rude and get in her face or bum, and she won't tolerate it. Is Ginny just tellling these dogs off for rude behaviour?
I was actually glad of Mollie's fiery nature a few weeks ago because a husky started attacking Alfie quite badly in the woods. Mollie rushed in to defend him and actually chased the husky off. It's not often I've seen an upside to her in this respect.
Vet check, behaviourist if necessary, and if no blood is drawn, you may well be able to manage the situation well. You may always have to "manage" it but I wouldn't give up. Good luck.
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She has 'snacked' at me and my Dad also recently when asked to do something she doesnt want to do....like getting of the settee.
Ruby began doing this aged 6 months and I was taught and advised to teach her to get off the settee on command. I have since had a fair few dogs in the house on foster and adolescence has a lot to answer for in their gaining confidence as well. Teaching her this would be good for a start rather than expecting her to know - I do it by luring off and then when four feet on ground I praise and treat - in the process of luring her off I would point and the ground and say 'off' firmly. With some fosters I have used a houseline. You can also teach them by using clicker training as well.
As others suggest get yourself help but also help yourself by training/walking separately.
There's more to getting a working cocker than just having a nice pet and its not down to what colour they are.
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Thanks everyone. I am worried for Marcus (our yorkie) because of his size and am now keeping them seperate. I feel really deflated and at the moment think that she would be better off in a home that can meet her needs fully; if I'm being honest I dont think our home does. I'm giving it serious thought.
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Thanks everyone. I am worried for Marcus (our yorkie) because of his size and am now keeping them seperate. I feel really deflated and at the moment think that she would be better off in a home that can meet her needs fully; if I'm being honest I dont think our home does. I'm giving it serious thought.
aww...it's hard try not to beat yourself up....you are thinking of the best for her aswell as all concerned. Being happy is the most important thing for yourselves and Ginny :luv:
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Thanks everyone. I am worried for Marcus (our yorkie) because of his size and am now keeping them seperate. I feel really deflated and at the moment think that she would be better off in a home that can meet her needs fully; if I'm being honest I dont think our home does. I'm giving it serious thought.
aww...it's hard try not to beat yourself up....you are thinking of the best for her aswell as all concerned. Being happy is the most important thing for yourselves and Ginny :luv:
Thanks I need a bit of kindness this week x