CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Hurtwood Dogs on November 08, 2010, 11:10:19 AM
-
Both my two have always enjoyed exercises with dummies - retrieving from water and land, blind retrieves etc etc... but just recently they've been losing interest so I gave them a break from it for a while but this weekend, took the dummies and tried again. Normy will go in and find them but then just half heartedly picks up and drops it now and comes straight back to me and Dave will pick up then bury it a few meters away ::)
Should I give up for a while or is there anything I can do to get them more interested again?
-
Are they just plain dummies? sorry I don't know what level of work you do with them.....do you know anyone who could cover them with some rabbit fur? Maybe this will pick up their interest?
Just a thought ;)
-
Are they just plain dummies? sorry I don't know what level of work you do with them.....do you know anyone who could cover them with some rabbit fur? Maybe this will pick up their interest?
Just a thought ;)
That's an idea, thank you.. I don't 'work' either dog but have always done gundog type training with them... Dave's never been great but my Weim used to get a real buzz out of it. I think you're right, orange canvas rubbed with cheese, just probably just isn't cutting the mustard anymore! Will see if I can find something more exotic!
-
this might not be relivent, but, Skye my GSD refuses to pick up her ball, dummy etc if its landed in anything smelly (although will roll in fox poo >:( !) HAve you tried fresh ones? Same as she wont pick up any new ones until they've rolled in clean grass for a bit!
-
rabbit fur would be my suggestion too - you can buy them 'ready made' ;)
-
this might not be relivent, but, Skye my GSD refuses to pick up her ball, dummy etc if its landed in anything smelly (although will roll in fox poo >:( !) HAve you tried fresh ones? Same as she wont pick up any new ones until they've rolled in clean grass for a bit!
:005: That's one fussy lady you have there :005: I haven't tried new ones... but she wasn't sure about them when they were 'new' it was only when I rubbed them in smelly stuff they became interesting!
rabbit fur would be my suggestion too - you can buy them 'ready made' ;)
Yes I've seen those... as they're not getting Christmas presents maybe they can have a 'November' present instead :D
-
this might not be relivent, but, Skye my GSD refuses to pick up her ball, dummy etc if its landed in anything smelly (although will roll in fox poo >:( !) HAve you tried fresh ones? Same as she wont pick up any new ones until they've rolled in clean grass for a bit!
:005: That's one fussy lady you have there :005: I haven't tried new ones... but she wasn't sure about them when they were 'new' it was only when I rubbed them in smelly stuff they became interesting!
rabbit fur would be my suggestion too - you can buy them 'ready made' ;)
Yes I've seen those... as they're not getting Christmas presents maybe they can have a 'November' present instead :D
absolutely :lol2:
-
this might not be relivent, but, Skye my GSD refuses to pick up her ball, dummy etc if its landed in anything smelly (although will roll in fox poo >:( !) HAve you tried fresh ones? Same as she wont pick up any new ones until they've rolled in clean grass for a bit!
:005: That's one fussy lady you have there :005: I haven't tried new ones... but she wasn't sure about them when they were 'new' it was only when I rubbed them in smelly stuff they became interesting!
rabbit fur would be my suggestion too - you can buy them 'ready made' ;)
Yes I've seen those... as they're not getting Christmas presents maybe they can have a 'November' present instead :D
absolutely :lol2:
ACtually, I've just got some tennis balls covered with rabbit fur from e bay - they all love them too and easier to put in my pocket!
-
this might not be relivent, but, Skye my GSD refuses to pick up her ball, dummy etc if its landed in anything smelly (although will roll in fox poo >:( !) HAve you tried fresh ones? Same as she wont pick up any new ones until they've rolled in clean grass for a bit!
:005: That's one fussy lady you have there :005: I haven't tried new ones... but she wasn't sure about them when they were 'new' it was only when I rubbed them in smelly stuff they became interesting!
rabbit fur would be my suggestion too - you can buy them 'ready made' ;)
Yes I've seen those... as they're not getting Christmas presents maybe they can have a 'November' present instead :D
absolutely :lol2:
ACtually, I've just got some tennis balls covered with rabbit fur from e bay - they all love them too and easier to put in my pocket!
You can also buy rabbit balls with throwing toggles.
How many retrieves do you do hannah?
Are they easy or hard?
Do you ever reward with food for just holding, I know some gundog trainers think this teaches the dogs to spit the dummy but If you use a clicker and get the timing right it can be useful.
if they like the rabbit skin covered dummy's you could use a retrieve with one of these as a reward for a retrieve of a less valuable item.
-
Millie will get bored if I do the same type of retrieve all the time so I mix it up, also after every 2-3 I'll chuck a ball but roll it fast along the ground as that's what she really loves to chase, that's sometimes more of a reward for her than food.
-
You can also buy rabbit balls with throwing toggles.
How many retrieves do you do hannah?
Are they easy or hard?
Do you ever reward with food for just holding, I know some gundog trainers think this teaches the dogs to spit the dummy but If you use a clicker and get the timing right it can be useful.
if they like the rabbit skin covered dummy's you could use a retrieve with one of these as a reward for a retrieve of a less valuable item.
Thanks Mark, I tend to only do 4, 5 or 6 a walk absolute max and vary what they are - hidden blind retrieves or sit and mark type ones. They also don't get to play with the dummies other than when we're doing retrieves. I do reward them with food for returning the dummy, but wondering if they're starting to think they can just find it then come back for food? I haven't tried rewarding them for just holding - how would I teach that? Would you introduce a hold command and click before (they drop it!) taking it from them and rewarding? Then increase the period of time they have to hold for?
I have noticed they're worse at it when they're together on a walk - even if OH is holding one of them while I do retrieves with the other - might be because Dave applies usual cocker law to everything Normy has and she lets him, so it could be Normy is giving up on stuff when he's around even if he's not loose - Dave burying things when she's there too could be related I guess?
-
You can also buy rabbit balls with throwing toggles.
How many retrieves do you do hannah?
Are they easy or hard?
Do you ever reward with food for just holding, I know some gundog trainers think this teaches the dogs to spit the dummy but If you use a clicker and get the timing right it can be useful.
if they like the rabbit skin covered dummy's you could use a retrieve with one of these as a reward for a retrieve of a less valuable item.
Thanks Mark, I tend to only do 4, 5 or 6 a walk absolute max and vary what they are - hidden blind retrieves or sit and mark type ones. They also don't get to play with the dummies other than when we're doing retrieves. I do reward them with food for returning the dummy, but wondering if they're starting to think they can just find it then come back for food? I haven't tried rewarding them for just holding - how would I teach that? Would you introduce a hold command and click before (they drop it!) taking it from them and rewarding? Then increase the period of time they have to hold for?
I have noticed they're worse at it when they're together on a walk - even if OH is holding one of them while I do retrieves with the other - might be because Dave applies usual cocker law to everything Normy has and she lets him, so it could be Normy is giving up on stuff when he's around even if he's not loose - Dave burying things when she's there too could be related I guess?
have you tried free shaping a pick up and hold using a clicker?
Could very well be something to do with Dave.
-
Just another thought Hannah, do you ever do retrieves with other items you can play with?
Maybe Normy is just not finding the act of retrieving rewarding enough?
-
No, I'll try the free shaping thing and see how that goes...
We do retrieves with balls too but again, not much interest anymore. I've never tried ragging type toys with them partly because Dave has a tendency to take stuff like that too far and I've stopped him guarding toys from us and the kids now so didn't want to risk it becoming an issue again and also because I don't really want them to get into that as they're pretty good (mostly!) at not taking toys from the children etc.. It would be easy to get a bit lazy with them at the moment as they're both pretty good on walks and are having a great time tracking and hunting but never bogging off and their recall is bang on... just want to play with them a bit more!!!
-
That's so interesting as I've recently been puzzling over Fraser's lack of interest in his frisbee. It used to be the love of his life and if I said, want to play frisbee, he'd jump up with his eyes sparkling and bounce around at the door waiting to be let out. Then he'd retrieve happily and bark at me if I didn't throw it. I used to get him to hand it to me (or teeth it to me) in exchange for a little treat. He liked nothing better than me throwing it into the lower garden where there are lots of bushes so he had to hunt it. And then he lost interest. Would still bounce up at the mention of the frisbee (more or less for old times sake, I guess), but when we got outside, he'd do a politeness retrieve and then wander off. It was quite cute actually as he'd do a retrieve with a trot back rather than racing back as if he was doing it to humour me as Mum obviously was so into the game. What a considerate pup is Fraser. Tried to interest him in retrieving a ball, but it was much the same thing. So, glad you posted this as I'd been pondering the change in attitude.
-
I taught Honey's retrieve by building from the clicking the pick up... it was the way we were taught at obedience.
It's actually given her a really good retrieve - she can be reluctant to give the item up (which was always her problem) especially when she is getting tired, but I find if I click and treat a few "hold it"s then build up to a "bring it", a few more "hold it"s and she's willing to obey the "give".
Also wrt to tuggy toys, Honey definately knows what she is allowed to play tuggy with, and we control when the game starts and ends... even when she is being reluctant to give something up she never attempts to tug with it... obviously if you don't want to risk it, I can completely understand, but it shouldn't lead to problems with stealing toys or guarding stuff... ;)
If you're looking for other stuff to do out and about, another thing we've started doing is squashing a couple of treats onto a tree stump for a quick "find it" game.... Honey loves it! :D
-
I taught Honey's retrieve by building from the clicking the pick up... it was the way we were taught at obedience.
It's actually given her a really good retrieve - she can be reluctant to give the item up (which was always her problem) especially when she is getting tired, but I find if I click and treat a few "hold it"s then build up to a "bring it", a few more "hold it"s and she's willing to obey the "give".
Also wrt to tuggy toys, Honey definately knows what she is allowed to play tuggy with, and we control when the game starts and ends... even when she is being reluctant to give something up she never attempts to tug with it... obviously if you don't want to risk it, I can completely understand, but it shouldn't lead to problems with stealing toys or guarding stuff... ;)
If you're looking for other stuff to do out and about, another thing we've started doing is squashing a couple of treats onto a tree stump for a quick "find it" game.... Honey loves it! :D
Thanks hun, Normy's always been a very natural retriever so I'm surprised she's lost interest... Dave on the other hand :lol: Might try your technique with him though as he responds to that sort of stuff unlike huff pants!
The ragging thing is more that I don't want them ragging with the kids - the kids (or their friends when they visit) wouldn't be able to resist it and it would just end in disaster tbh so it's just easier and best to not do it at all here... ;)
-
Honey's so used to the rules that she wouldn't play tug with my brother when he came to visit, cos he was doing it wrong (which is enough to keep my mind at ease for the future as far as tugging with children goes!) - but I'm sure that's more by good luck than judgement, so don't fault your reasoning at all on that one!!! :D