CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Ian Wright on May 12, 2011, 07:35:45 PM
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What is a Sable Is it Just the colour ????? or are they diffrent from a Show / Working cocker ??? as i have googled then and some pictures of then look like they have a diffrent shaped head ????
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I think that sable is just a colour, but quite rare in this country. Is it possible some of the pictures you've found are American cocker spaniels? They are quite different to English cockers.
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There is at least 1 sable COL dog on here that I know of Ian, look under puppy pics section and put in 'sable' - it will bring you some pics of Monty - he is gorgeous :luv: There is also another one on here but I think it's a blue roan and sable, so unusual and stunning colouring :luv:
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I think that sable is just a colour, but quite rare in this country. Is it possible some of the pictures you've found are American cocker spaniels? They are quite different to English cockers.
Just checked and it was an American site i was looking at ph34r some new pups on COL look Like the sable in my search like Blossom I an really struggling to see the difference in colour
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There is at least 1 sable COL dog on here that I know of Ian, look under puppy pics section and put in 'sable' - it will bring you some pics of Monty - he is gorgeous :luv: There is also another one on here but I think it's a blue roan and sable, so unusual and stunning colouring :luv:
Monty is :luv: :luv: but i think he lives Brussels :huh: are there any uk ones on here :huh:
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Yes Monty does! Can't recall any UK sables though :huh:
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I'm sure the answer is somewhere on COL, but I wonder why we don't have sables here? Maybe it's difficult to produce a pure strain?
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Monty's ears were burning!! He is indeed a sable and although an unusual colour here in sunny Brussels, I think a bit more common than in UK. I certainly didn't set out to get a sable, but the breeder I found here has a sable dog that is gorgeous, we had pick of the litter and I had my name down for a red bitch before litter was born. However when we went to see them the sable boy chose me! Probably a bit wasted on us because we don't show him and aren't going to use him as a stud dog, but he is :luv: :luv: :luv: I know people charge alot of money for sable pups, and Monty was a little more expensive than his golden littermates, but not hugely so, and worth every penny!
(http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/montydogdavies/062.jpg)
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He is :luv: :luv: :luv: I have never seen one and only just found out they excised :005:
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:luv: :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv:
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There are breeders who breed sables here in the UK and there are a few doing well in the show ring. I would love one some day :luv:
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There are quite a few threads on "sable" (it's really a pattern rather than a colour) if you do a forum search. Here's one from a while ago but there are lots more:
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=68049.0
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I met one walking along the Regents Canal in London, quite near to where I bump into Colin, so maybe he knows the dog too.
He was beautiful! (The dog rather than Colin - sorry Colin!)
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There are a few Sables belonging to British colers, and a few Europrean sable Col dogs too. Murphy is British havent seen his Mum on here for a while though and her username escapes me at the mo, Martine has Teun , he is sable, not sure where they live? Not much help really am I :005: :005:
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There are a few Sables belonging to British colers, and a few Europrean sable Col dogs too. Murphy is British havent seen his Mum on here for a while though and her username escapes me at the mo, Martine has Teun , he is sable, not sure where they live? Not much help really am I :005: :005:
Ah, yes, of course, Murphy, username SuperCat http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=71464.msg1055949#msg1055949
Sables are so pretty! :luv:
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Sable is just a colour, although quite rare in uk. I have read a few threads about them becoming a non recognised colour which would be a real shame. Throughout the rest of Europe they are quite common.
Does anybody have any info about it as i would love to show my sable cocker and feel it would be a real shame if i couldnt.
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Haven't seen this thread before and I'm so disappointed :012: :012: :012: nobody mentioned my handsome Teun :shades: ;) :005: Okay, he lives with me in Holland but is a COLmember ever since he was born ;)
Teun is a goldsable, so he's more gold then the averaged sable with dark points at the end of the hair on his back.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/kootjoo/karfreitag%202011/Untitled-9.png)
Here you can see his back.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/kootjoo/Kerst%20Sauerland%202010/14.jpg)
I heard that the sableroan is going to be non recognised not the solid sable??? I'm quit curious about that....
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Haven't seen this thread before and I'm so disappointed :012: :012: :012: nobody mentioned my handsome Teun :shades: ;) :005: Okay, he lives with me in Holland but is a COLmember ever since he was born ;)
Teun is a goldsable, so he's more gold then the averaged sable with dark points at the end of the hair on his back.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/kootjoo/karfreitag%202011/Untitled-9.png
Here you can see his back.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/kootjoo/Kerst%20Sauerland%202010/14.jpg
Awww Marina I did remember him I just got your name wrong ph34r ;)
There are a few Sables belonging to British colers, and a few Europrean sable Col dogs too. Murphy is British havent seen his Mum on here for a while though and her username escapes me at the mo, Martine has Teun , he is sable, not sure where they live? Not much help really am I :005: :005:
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Sorry Bajoleth, missed your reply.... glad you mentioned Teun, thanks :bigarmhug:
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I'm reading this thread with interest as I have been waiting on a puppy from a friends litter. They were born 2 days ago and she had a black and tan bitch which is mine. :D She now thinks she may be a black sable (but is not charging more if she is) and having seen the photographs I am inclined to agree, I am researching sables now as I really don't know very much about them, puppies mum is a Cardamine sable and she is really sweet, so it is lovely to see all these pictures of beautiful sable dogs. :luv: Anyone have any advice on how I can tell if she is sable or black and tan? She is gorgeous whatever she is, but it would be nice to know. :005:
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Sorry Bajoleth, missed your reply.... glad you mentioned Teun, thanks :bigarmhug:
Couldn't forget that handsome boy ;) :luv: :luv: :luv:
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I'm reading this thread with interest as I have been waiting on a puppy from a friends litter. They were born 2 days ago and she had a black and tan bitch which is mine. :D She now thinks she may be a black sable (but is not charging more if she is) and having seen the photographs I am inclined to agree, I am researching sables now as I really don't know very much about them, puppies mum is a Cardamine sable and she is really sweet, so it is lovely to see all these pictures of beautiful sable dogs. :luv: Anyone have any advice on how I can tell if she is sable or black and tan? She is gorgeous whatever she is, but it would be nice to know. :005:
Do you have any pics? Not that I would be able to tel :005:l but would love to see them :luv: :luv: Congrats BTW ;)
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Anyone have any advice on how I can tell if she is sable or black and tan? She is gorgeous whatever she is, but it would be nice to know. :005:
I'd get in touch with a knowledgable sable breeder for their opinion eg Elaine Thomas. I didn't know there was such a thing as a black sable - I've seen a photo recently which the owner described as a "black sable" but it looked like an ordinary black with the kind of reddish browning to the ends of the hair you often see in the summer on solid blacks and blue roans :-\
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I've found some pictures of different sables
Black Sable
(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww348/ClaudiaMax/Max%208%20maanden/Max8maanden_0027.jpg)
(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww348/ClaudiaMax/Januari%202009/Max25-01-09_0006.jpg)
"Normal" Sable:
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/kootjoo/Zobel12-1.jpg)
chocolate Sable:
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/selina73feeke/deen/dec09045.jpg)
Gold Sable:
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/kootjoo/Denemarken%202010/58.jpg)
This one is mine.... al mine :015:
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Black Sable
(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww348/ClaudiaMax/Max%208%20maanden/Max8maanden_0027.jpg)
(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww348/ClaudiaMax/Januari%202009/Max25-01-09_0006.jpg)
Well I never, just when you thought you'd got it sussed another comes into the mix!! Really unusual! Looks like a black cocker with a dusting of icing sugar! :luv:
Gorgeous Teun pics as ever. The one from above really shows the sable colour. :luv:
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Interesting pics :shades: Can't say the black sable is very appealing to me but each to their own ;)
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'Normal' Sable is quite striking, as is golden Sable & the wonderful Teun :luv: but black Sable not quite so IMO :-\
Might be the light but 2nd pic looks like the little pupster could do with a bath :005: ..........& I already have one of those - look .......Ginger Sable :rofl1:
(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss173/ladylou_p/P1090452.jpg)
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I want a ginger sable ;) But only if it's THAT one :luv: :luv:
Gorgeous!
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Monty is a Black Sable, at least that's what it says on his pedigree! He is much lighter than the picture posted though. (see first pic posted to see my boy!)
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Monty to my looks like the "normal" sable to me, I know some of them but couldn't find more pics yesterday... will search ones again.
I prefere "normal" and gold Sable the above the other two.
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Found some more photo's of a "normal" Sable
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae166/Francoise72/Thirza/Op%20vakantie%20in%20oostenrijk/DSC_0024.jpg)
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae166/Francoise72/Thirza/Op%20vakantie%20in%20oostenrijk/DSC_0111.jpg)
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae166/Francoise72/Thirza/DSC_0740thirza.gif)
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The black sable looks like it needs a really good clean. It seems to be a race to produce all the colours of sable they can :-\.
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http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae166/Francoise72/Thirza/Op%20vakantie%20in%20oostenrijk/DSC_0024.jpg
:luv: :luv: :luv:
Are there any other breeds that have as many colours as cockers? I was trying to count up all the possible combinations and lost it when it came to sables!
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Yup, Marina, those pics look like my boy!! Seems even the breeders are confused about the different types of sable!! :005:
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Can I just say I am really enjoying seeing these pictures of different sables, in-particular the black sables :luv: :luv: :D
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Can I just say I am really enjoying seeing these pictures of different sables, in-particular the black sables :luv: :luv: :D
me too :shades: :luv: they are all gorgeous :luv: :luv:
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If English cockers are the same as Americans, where sable is a bit more common than in the English, then there are only two sables: black and brown. Black sable is a black overlay and brown sable is brown overlay (and usually accompanied by a brown nose).
How the sable overall appears depends on the amount of overlay colour and what the underlying colour is.
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If English cockers are the same as Americans, where sable is a bit more common than in the English, then there are only two sables: black and brown. Black sable is a black overlay and brown sable is brown overlay (and usually accompanied by a brown nose).
How the sable overall appears depends on the amount of overlay colour and what the underlying colour is.
The AKC don't register sable American Cockers.
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If English cockers are the same as Americans, where sable is a bit more common than in the English, then there are only two sables: black and brown. Black sable is a black overlay and brown sable is brown overlay (and usually accompanied by a brown nose).
How the sable overall appears depends on the amount of overlay colour and what the underlying colour is.
The AKC don't register sable American Cockers.
Yes, as far as I know they do get registered, but because they are not a recognised colour, they can't be shown. However, in Canada and Europe they are a recognised colour. ;)
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The FCI standard does not include sable to be a recognized color for the American Cocker. How can sable be allowed in Canada and Europe? :huh:
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The FCI standard does not include sable to be a recognized color for the American Cocker. How can sable be allowed in Canada and Europe? :huh:
I don't know that much about showing etc, but I suspect that the FCI does not govern the UK or Canadian Kennel Clubs and therefore has no saying on the respective breed standards in those countries.
PS. I just checked and the UK and Canada are not FCI member countries, which means their breed standards and general rules will not necessarily match with the FCI ones!
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But a lot of European countries are members of the FCI. The judges from these countries should follow the breedstandard of the FCI.
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True, so I should have said Canada and UK, not Europe. ;) My mistake.