CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: karen488 on September 17, 2011, 08:37:52 PM

Title: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 17, 2011, 08:37:52 PM
I'm after a black and White boy next year. Do breeders know if they're selling you a roan or b&w? Is there any guarantee?
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Nicky on September 17, 2011, 08:41:56 PM
By 8 weeks breeders will be able to tell a black and white from blue roan.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 17, 2011, 09:18:52 PM
Thanks Nicky but if you want to pick a pup earlier than 8 weeks is it a bit of a gamble?
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: hollyd443 on September 17, 2011, 09:33:11 PM
Ooo, black and whites are lovely  :luv:

Is there a possibility the paw pads could give it away or is that not guaranteed?

Rio is white a light roan and you could see it coming through when we visited her at 3.5wks:

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff34/hollydavies123/Puppy015.jpg)

and more so at 6wks:

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff34/hollydavies123/Rio6weeksa.jpg)

Now:

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff34/hollydavies123/B2-2.jpg)

Good luck with your search  :luv: :blink:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 17, 2011, 09:36:28 PM
Those pics are really helpful. I would prefer  b&w but know if I fall in love and it's roan that will be it  :luv:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Nicky on September 17, 2011, 09:50:05 PM
You can tell by their pads as the blue roans go black whereas the b&w may be pink.
The pups are 3 1/2 weeks in the pic, the second one in from the left is black and white and the one at the back thats being squashed is too. Its hard to tell with these pups as the roan ones were all very light roan. But you can see their roan coming through.
(http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/princess_topazmoon/3wks.jpg)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 17, 2011, 09:53:39 PM
How helpful thanks. Darcey is pale orange roan (which is exactly what we wanted  :luv:)  but it took a long time for her roaming to appear she just looke like a white polar bear for 6 months! but can see how it is clearer with the blues.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: MegandMolly on September 17, 2011, 09:56:59 PM
Love the photo of the B&W being a pillow  :luv:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Nicky on September 17, 2011, 09:58:59 PM
Yes they're alot clearer to tell then the orange roans! We had an orange roan pup and her roan came through at about 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: cangrejo on September 17, 2011, 10:58:47 PM
 Charlie is black & white and his paw pads were a gorgeous pale pink when we collected him at 8 weeks, he was also very definitely White with black patches. We saw Dexter who is a light blue roan at 5 weeks, he was very light at that age but his paw pads were black and had definite roan on his face and legs, the roan has come out a lot more since but he was definitely a roan baby at 5 weeks. I'll try and put pics up of them tomorrow both at 8 weeks old and you'll see the difference.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: siam on September 18, 2011, 08:11:05 AM
This is Alfie when we first saw him at just over 5 weeks when you can see the roan is already coming through particularly in his front legs so you should be able to see by 8 weeks which are roan or b&w though I guess it might not be so clearcut in lighter roans, but the paw pad colour check should help too!
(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz62/siam17/PA272344.jpg)

How Alfie looks now.
(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz62/siam17/P10300952.jpg)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: cangrejo on September 18, 2011, 09:01:59 AM
Here is my black & white Charlie at 8 weeks old
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x359/cangrejo71/CharlieBWBaby.jpg)

Dexter my light blue roan - his face and legs already show a lot of roan and you can see the roan coming through on his back
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x359/cangrejo71/Dex_BluRoanBaby.jpg)

Really silly I know, but I wish I'd taken pictures of Charlie's pink paw pads while he had them - they looked so sweet :005:

I hope this is helpful x
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: supergirl on September 18, 2011, 10:39:19 AM
Indie my first cocker was a light blue roan, this is her at 6 weeks - as you can see she is clearly a blue roan, she did darken up a bit more, but overall was a light blue.

(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo60/littlebudha/IMG_0064.jpg)
and at 8 weeks

(http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo60/littlebudha/IMG_0075.jpg)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 19, 2011, 07:35:27 PM
All of those pictures are great! I'm getting really excited although we're ages off (not til next year) I was really set on B&W but am now really loving the roans too. Just hope the breeder comes up with a suitable pup.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: hollyd443 on September 19, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
Awww, lovely puppy pics  :luv:

All of those pictures are great! I'm getting really excited although we're ages off (not til next year) I was really set on B&W but am now really loving the roans too. Just hope the breeder comes up with a suitable pup.

When I was on the search for Roxy I was after a choccy roan....and got a golden..when I was on for getting another cocker it 'had to be' a solid black and tan....I came away with a blue roan and tan  :005: Come to think of it, Sophie, my collie I was after black 'n' white or tri-colour and came away with a blue and white  :005:

All the best with your search  :D
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Ninasmum on September 19, 2011, 08:56:38 PM
This pic is Nina with her littermate's taken over 4 yrs. ago  :luv: ...... they were all black/white  :luv:
(http://api.photoshop.com/v1.0/accounts/21e9b400762c4bbbb8e9ca3a19ab8906/assets/e83013bd790c45b78abf0b5d79a364a1)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 19, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
 :luv: :luv: :luv: them. Where were they bred? (am I allowed to ask that?)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: lindseyp on September 19, 2011, 09:03:08 PM
adorable Wendy ...which one is Nina?  :shades:  :luv:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: cangrejo on September 19, 2011, 09:41:53 PM
 :luv: reminds me of when we went to pick Charlie.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Ninasmum on September 19, 2011, 10:16:11 PM
:luv: :luv: :luv: them. Where were they bred? (am I allowed to ask that?)

they were Jo Jo's (my oldest girl  :luv:) puppies  :luv:


adorable Wendy ...which one is Nina?  :shades:  :luv:

Nina is the 'sensible' one on the far right facing  :005: :luv: 
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: ElaineH on September 19, 2011, 10:21:15 PM
*Gulp*  :luv:  :luv: A whole litter of black and whites  :004:  :004: Just heavenly  :luv:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: EmmaA on September 20, 2011, 08:35:29 AM
Oooh these pics are making me so puppy broody. Groove my first cocker was a dark blue roan, he was very blue looking when i picked him at 5 weeks. When i went at 8 weeks to collect him, I didn't recognise him because he was so dark. Eric is a light blue roan but he looks very similar to a black and white ticked he is at the very hazy point between the 2. Not helpful I know but good luck with your search  :D

OMG Jo Jo's pups are sooooooo gorgeous  :004: :004:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: angie68 on September 20, 2011, 03:14:25 PM
I love the photo of Jo Jo's  puppies. This is making me really broody  :luv:
Angie x
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Ninasmum on September 20, 2011, 03:22:24 PM
Thank you for the lovely comments on Jo Jo's puppies  :D :luv:  Jo Jo & Nina will always be extra special in my heart  :004: :021:
Its bringing back some wonderful memories for us too looking at that pic :luv: :'( :luv:
As it was one of the most happiest, emotional, tiring, rewarding times of our life  :luv: :luv: 
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Cayley on September 20, 2011, 10:35:34 PM
This is a photo of Elsie's sisters taken at 2 weeks old, you can see that the orange and white is on the left as she has a very pink and spotty nose, where as the roan has a black nose  :D.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/eclipse12/aaa049-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: karen488 on September 21, 2011, 07:08:59 AM
This is a photo of Elsie's sisters taken at 2 weeks old, you can see that the orange and white is on the left as she has a very pink and spotty nose, where as the roan has a black nose  :D.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/eclipse12/aaa049-1.jpg)

These puppy pics are making me :004: :004: my fried has an orange roan too and her nose is brown but Darcey's is black??
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Darwin on September 21, 2011, 09:42:03 AM
Darwin is classed as a Blue Roan, but we've always wondered if he's actually a b&w ticked.  He's now 2 1/2yr it is really only now in the last month  or so that more of he roan colouring is starting to show
At 8 weeks
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l495/alisonwannell/2009_04040002.jpg)

at 2yrs shows how pale his colouring is,  I need take some more photo's
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l495/alisonwannell/2011_02030018.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Cayley on September 21, 2011, 09:54:01 AM
This is a photo of Elsie's sisters taken at 2 weeks old, you can see that the orange and white is on the left as she has a very pink and spotty nose, where as the roan has a black nose  :D.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v286/eclipse12/aaa049-1.jpg)

These puppy pics are making me :004: :004: my fried has an orange roan too and her nose is brown but Darcey's is black??

Her nose is brown because she's technically a chocolate, colour genetics is confusing  :blink:.
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: c19unn on September 21, 2011, 10:08:10 AM
Funnily enough i went for a Blue Roan and came home with a Black and White  :luv:

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/300740_278363218845381_100000151158117_1301318_1082408_n.jpg)

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314761_283882604960109_100000151158117_1325569_1209648759_n.jpg)

(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284274_262127833802253_100000151158117_1223420_5276258_n.jpg)

(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/314809_284916444856725_100000151158117_1329554_29892433_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: JeffandAnnie on September 25, 2011, 12:55:37 PM
All these puppy pics are so  :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv:
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Miadanu on September 29, 2011, 12:13:12 AM
I came across this which shows a blue roan developing from the early days up to four years old.
http://www.powerscourt-cockers.co.uk/advice_pages/colour_development.htm (http://www.powerscourt-cockers.co.uk/advice_pages/colour_development.htm)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: LynneB on September 29, 2011, 08:39:27 AM
Thanks Nicky but if you want to pick a pup earlier than 8 weeks is it a bit of a gamble?



A bit worrying :-\ Breeders should not let a puppy go under 8 weeks. :o
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: Darwin on September 29, 2011, 08:56:48 AM
Love the info on the powerscourt website about roan colouring.  Is interesting to see the Y2, Y3 and Y4 photo's and how the colouring continues to develop.-
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: hollyd443 on September 29, 2011, 12:30:26 PM
Thanks Nicky but if you want to pick a pup earlier than 8 weeks is it a bit of a gamble?



A bit worrying :-\ Breeders should not let a puppy go under 8 weeks. :o

She means choose/reserve a puppy, not take it home before 8 weeks :)
Title: Re: Blue roan or black and White?
Post by: LynneB on September 29, 2011, 12:33:26 PM
Thanks Nicky but if you want to pick a pup earlier than 8 weeks is it a bit of a gamble?



A bit worrying :-\ Breeders should not let a puppy go under 8 weeks. :o

She means choose/reserve a puppy, not take it home before 8 weeks :)


Oops, my middle name is muppet :embarassed: