CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: c19unn on January 31, 2012, 11:25:02 AM
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Hi Guys
I havea question that me and OH keep falling out about and i wanted to get the facts.
Riley is getting neutered by OH mum and Dad as they are surrounded by bitches and say that they think its unfair and that they would rather just have him done. Me and OH have never discussed Neutering Diesel however he went mental at his mum and dad for planning to get Riley neutered ... which got me thinking about neutering and if i should do it (my concerns are health related only - and we are not going to be breeding him)
1. Neutering DOES NOT have any affect on the dogs behaviour i.e calms a more hyper dog down? True or False?
2. Neutering DOES NOT make the dog want to run off and HUMP the girls any less? True or False?
3. Its a Myth that Neutering has any affect on the dog other than him not being able to reproduce? True or False?
(the above are statements from OH)
My questions are:
Are there health benefits to neutering a young healthy male (no man part issues with retained testicles or anything)?
If not breeding and no issues with behaviour etc is there any positive to neutering (except for the reproduction part)
Is there an age that is recommended to neuter i.e when older dog to avoid health issues?
Riley will be neutered regardless as OH mum and dad will be getting him done so that when the surrounding bitches are in season he does not get frustrated or try to escape but i am wondering if i am best to get Diesel done... If it has health benefits then i would like to but if it is neither here nor there id rather not put him through the op ...
Any advice much appreciated
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Hopefully soemone will be along soon that is more 'in the know' than I am. I have heard that it can make things easier for the dog when bitches come into season nearby and that obviously it lessens the rick of testicular cancer but like you I am pretty unclear on it all- I havent had Fred done as he had so many anesthetics when he was little I was reluctant to put him through another one when he didnt seem to be bothered by bitches in season and still isnt if there are tennis balls around to play with instead!!
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Neutering will generally only help with behavioural issues if they are caused by hormones.
If a dog is running off and humping females then neutering should lessen the urge to do so quite significantly but I'm not sure if it would eradicate it completely. The only one of mine to hump a bitch in heat (idiot owner had taken her to the park in the middle of the afternoon!) was a neutered male :005:
Neutering can have other effects on the dog - Vegas suffered from feminisation as a result of being neutered and he was pestered relentlessly by other dogs. In time, he became very grouchy with other dogs especially if they were at the back of him. It was heartbreaking as he was such a sociable dog before that and loved playing with other dogs in the park.
I personally think the health benefits from neutering are far greater for females. With the males, you would obviously eliminate the risk of testicular cancer but there was a study done that showed neutered males were more prone to prostate problems than entire ones. It's easy enough to keep a check on a dogs testicles for any changes though.
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Thanks guys
Obviously with Riley being the OH parents dog its their choice but i love Diesels temprement and would worry that he may change if Neutered - I knew that for the Bitches it is a health benefit and obviously to avoid any litters as the biggest reason but i wasnt sure about the Males.
Diesel was in and out of vets the first couple of months and i wouldn want to put him through anything that didnt have a huge benefit (i know that there is probably very low risks with neutering but its being put under all the same)
If it seems that entire and neutered males have the same chances of cancer or that then i really dont see the point of getting diesel 'done'
I was just curious as i wouldnt like to rule out neutering if it may have had a big health benefit to him ......
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I'll be keeping an eye on this with interest. I've read a little about neutering but opinion and statistics vary wildly depending on what you read and from where.
The vet did ask me at Alfie's 6 months check if I'd thought about neutering, and while I have thought about it I'm just not sure. I'm worried that it will change his behaviour and personality and also feel that he's been through enough to consider it at the moment anyway. I told the vet I'd get back to him after Alfie's birthday if I'm considering it at that point... :lol2:
P.S Is it wrong that I also don't want it to affect his coat? :embarassed: I do love his straight, easy-to-comb coat. :luv:
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I'll be keeping an eye on this with interest. I've read a little about neutering but opinion and statistics vary wildly depending on what you read and from where.
The vet did ask me at Alfie's 6 months check if I'd thought about neutering, and while I have thought about it I'm just not sure. I'm worried that it will change his behaviour and personality and also feel that he's been through enough to consider it at the moment anyway. I told the vet I'd get back to him after Alfie's birthday if I'm considering it at that point... :lol2:
P.S Is it wrong that I also don't want it to affect his coat? :embarassed: I do love his straight, easy-to-comb coat. :luv:
I don't think it's wrong to worry about coat. I'm dreading getting Darcey spayed partly for that reason.
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P.S Is it wrong that I also don't want it to affect his coat? :embarassed: I do love his straight, easy-to-comb coat. :luv:
No, it's not wrong at all, in fact I feel the same way. I had two males before Toby and didn't have them neutered (apart from the removal of one retained testicle as it presented a possible future health hazard). I'm of the belief that if there's nothing wrong with it, don't remove it! I've thought long and hard about having Toby "done" but have come to the conclusion that there wouldn't be any benefit to him. If I have to subject him to an anaesthetic, it would be for something more life saving.
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Will answer the questions i can
1. Neutering DOES NOT have any affect on the dogs behaviour i.e calms a more hyper dog down? True or False? - Don't see how this works, in my experience there are other reasons for a dog to be hyper (food, lack of exercise, etc).
2. Neutering DOES NOT make the dog want to run off and HUMP the girls any less? True or False? Taz was neutered at 7 months and has NEVER been interested in humping girls (other than occasional when gets excited through play). I was told that humping is a learned behaviour, so if they hump before neutering it is highly likely that they will continue to hump afterwards - this is a training issue.
3. Its a Myth that Neutering has any affect on the dog other than him not being able to reproduce? True or False? No idea. Taz's coat is fluffy on his legs, but always has been.
(the above are statements from OH)
My questions are:
Are there health benefits to neutering a young healthy male (no man part issues with retained testicles or anything)? Reduced risk of testicular cancer.
If not breeding and no issues with behaviour etc is there any positive to neutering (except for the reproduction part) Reduced risk of testicular cancer and can see that it would reduce frustration if bitches are on heat (but don't have experience of this)
Is there an age that is recommended to neuter i.e when older dog to avoid health issues? ask 20 people, you will get 20 different answers.
Bearing in mind that you have had issues with Diesel when you had Riley, i would probably speak to a behaviourist before you get him done, just in case it affects his behaviour negatively - i dont have any experience of this so wouldnt like to say go ahead without professional advice.
Just on the coat issue, Taz's torso is very silky and easy to maintain, its just his legs that are fluffy
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Ziggy was neutered at 6 months and still has his lovely silky coat.I will be getting my new pup Lotti done as soon as it is possible and hope that her silky coat wont alter.
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P.S Is it wrong that I also don't want it to affect his coat? :embarassed: I do love his straight, easy-to-comb coat. :luv:
Not in my opinion. It is one of the reasons I haven't had Freddie done. He is healthy, doesn't hump or try to hump any dogs (only us when he is excited!), doesn't have behavioural problems and no probs with his testicles so why put him under a general anaesthetic. That's just my opinion.
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P.S Is it wrong that I also don't want it to affect his coat? :embarassed: I do love his straight, easy-to-comb coat. :luv:
Not in my opinion. It is one of the reasons I haven't had Freddie done. He is healthy, doesn't hump or try to hump any dogs (only us when he is excited!), doesn't have behavioural problems and no probs with his testicles so why put him under a general anaesthetic. That's just my opinion.
I agree ;)
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We are in a similar situation...Jasper will be 6 months old at the end of next month and already we are feeling pressurised by our vets to get him neutered...it's mentioned every time we go in! I have doubts about getting it done, I don't want him to go through such a big ordeal really when the benefits seem so few. I'm also worried that his coat will change although some of you don't appear to have had this problem.
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Both my boys are entire, one of the vets I see is all for neutering them, but the other vet I see has advised me not feel pressurised into having them neutered unless there is a medical reason, especially Murph who is quite an anxious dog and in her opinion could make him worse. We have no problems with humping or agresssion towards other dogs and at the moment no medical problems so I'm not going to have them done if it isn't necessary.
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We are in a similar situation...Jasper will be 6 months old at the end of next month and already we are feeling pressurised by our vets to get him neutered...it's mentioned every time we go in! I have doubts about getting it done, I don't want him to go through such a big ordeal really when the benefits seem so few. I'm also worried that his coat will change although some of you don't appear to have had this problem.
It usually does affect their coats ;)
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None of the labs we had when I was growing up were ever neutered and neither was my previous cocker. Alfie had a retained testicle which was being monitored at his puppy check ups and it looked like he was going to need an op to remove it at 14mths, but I was quite sure that unless the vet advised differently for a very good reason, that he was going to keep his remaining one. As it turned out, to our relief, when he went for his 12mth check up, the vet said its definitely there and descended, just not the most obvious one out :005:Q! I was relieved there was no reason for him to have an op. He's a very submissive boy, doesn't hump, is always under supervision, so can't see any reason why I would neuter him.
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Ollie will remain entire, we have no issues with him humping, agression etc. Jess on the other hand is being spayed in april, More health benefits for a girl and less worry/hastle
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Just my opinion Charlene & not questioning anyones choice at having their dog neutered but he still a little young if their thinking of having it done in the near future :huh: Personally I would allow the dog to mature naturally before cutting of his hormones & wait to see if any of the concerns they have actually develop :dunno: Some vets are far too quick to lop em off or whip them out but those hormones are there for a reason & not just for sexual maturity IMO.
If for medical reasons or he does present with the concerns you have, then of course reevaluate then but it does seem quite extreme to undergo the OP so young 'just in case' he humps etc ;)
Not an easy decision is it & there's no going back once it's done - that's why I feel it needs very careful consideration ;)
PS would love to see pics of the little man & see how he's grown :shades: :luv:
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They have only ever had bitches (King Charles's) and so always got the bitches Spayed however this is their first Male and their are going by the vets recommendation (6 months) so he will be done in like 2 weeks or something - I agree that i thought it was really young and said id have waited til he was at least a year but i have only owned dog for 7 month so what do i know in their eyes - have advised them of forum advice and i know that you had mentioned that before lindsey when the vet advised i should get them both neutered. But they have decided to go with vets advice ph34r Its their choice and their dog so i cant say anything .....
With Diesel i was not going to neuter him as per prev post dont fix whats not broken - Apart from with Riley he has never shown any aggression at all towards any dog :huh: but all other dogs he has met has been either in their enviroment or outside on walks - Riley was the first dog brought into the house and was a very strong willed little soul.
I just wondered if there was any health benefits as i have always said i wouldnt neuter but then wondered if there was any health benefits that i might be depriving him of if i didnt
But now i think ill defo just leave him ! If he had retained testicles or anything like that i would just go ahead when he was at least a year or that but as he has no issues and i guess like someone said .... black taz it was - it may have a negative affect on him - and i am not risking that and i am also not sure what it was that caused his aggreassion - although i do believe that it was the fact that abnother dog was in his home as he has never had another dog in the enviroment but its safer for me not to take the risk
Thanks for all the advice :) He shall be staying entire then :)
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Here is a good article about the pros and cons: http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/144600/EVIDENCE-BASED-APPROACH-TO-NEUTER-SURGERY-AND-INTRODUCTION-TO-EVIDENCE-BASED-MEDICAL-PRACTICE (http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/144600/EVIDENCE-BASED-APPROACH-TO-NEUTER-SURGERY-AND-INTRODUCTION-TO-EVIDENCE-BASED-MEDICAL-PRACTICE)
My American cocker was neutered at 14 months old. I wish I had him done earlier as his aggression towards other dogs started at around 8 months old. Although it got better after being neutered (and being put on thyroid medication), some of the learnt behaviour remains.
Before he was neutered, he started off by humping me, then eventually other people, then female dogs and eventually every dog he met and would let him. When he was neutered, this stopped completely - and I am the only one left that gets humped once in a while when he is over-excited. ;) So yes, that can work really well in that case and will probably with most dogs if there is a problem in that respect.
Jesse's recall also started going out of the window from around 8 months old despite a lot of training. Once neutered, he recalled just fine again almost overnight. :D
I know of several dogs in my classes that were distracted by everything going on around them before being neutered, once done they have no problem focusing on a task at hand.
So yes, there can be quite significant behavioural improvements, but that's by no means a guarantee and therefore shouldn't be the only reason to have it done, though it can be a contributory reason.
In some rare cases, aggression can be increased in more insecure dogs so if a dog is very nervous as it can have adverse behavioural effects. It is also important to remember that aggression can sometimes be temporarily increased after neutering due to the sharp drop in hormones, but if handled correctly, they usually return to normal behaviour after a time.
All my dogs are neutered regardless whether they are male or female, rescue or not. With my dogs I haven't seen any adverse effects in any of mine (5 so far) and I haven't so far seen any adverse effects with early neutering either (before maturity: Skye was neutered at 5 months, Flash - my saluki - at around 6 months and my lurcher Dylan at around 1 year).
My American cocker's coat probably got thicker, but it is by no means unmanageable, though it probably lost some of its shine on his shorter back coat. Skye is 7 months post spay and so far, her coat is still as glossy and smooth as ever, hopefully it'll stay that way. :D
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I understand and respect that people may have different opinions whether to have their dogs neutered or not. Paula is my fifth ECS bitch already, I got my first one in 1975 and have always stuck to this wonderful breed. None of my dogs has ever been spayed. Paula is 3 years old, last week I found a trace of pus in her hair. Since she had her last season in December it was very likely to be a pyometra, so we went to the vet the next morning, ready to have Paula spayed if necessary. After a thorough examination and an ultrasound it turned out to be a vaginitis. Paula got an AB injection and is on tablets for 10 days, then we' ll have another ultrasound. I would only have my dogs neutered if there was a medical reason for it. I am German and live in Essen, a city with a population of 584.000 people. We only use a lead perhaps once a week. Even when Paula is in season she will follow me within a range of a metre. We have never experienced any problems with hypersexual dogs. Maybe we're just very lucky... :005: