CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Neon on June 14, 2012, 08:48:19 PM
-
Don't want to start a discussion regarding the pros and cons of yearly vaccinations, but Toby went to the vet today for his first booster. I asked him about Titre testing and was expecting him to pooh pooh the idea but he was very interested in what I had to say regarding the research I've done concerning boosters and the link to Auto Immune. Long story short, I mentioned Vaccicheck (an inhouse testing currently being used at some veterinary surgeries) and he took details as it isn't anything they use and have not had any other clients asking about Titre testing. He is going to look into it for me and will ring me when he has more info about it.
He was very understanding about my concerns and acknowledged that it could be the way forward for the surgery. I'm feeling chuffed, to be honest. Toby has had his first booster but his subsequent ones will depend on the results of his future Titre testing.
-
:clapping: well done for doing your research and standing up for what you want. SOunds like your vet is a very levels headed and open one! :)
-
Yes well done! Progress!
-
When doing the research did it say if they are ok there is no need to vaci ate, how does that stand with the passport would they still let them travel. Selby is due to have his and I don't like him having them.
-
When doing the research did it say if they are ok there is no need to vaci ate, how does that stand with the passport would they still let them travel. Selby is due to have his and I don't like him having them.
I don't have that answer for you, sorry, but for a guess, a passport would only be issued to a fully vaccinated animal. It's the same scenario as wanting to kennel an un-vaccinated dog, or claiming off insurance for a disease the dog gets that it isn't vaccinated for. In my opinion, if the owner has a certificate issued by a vet to confirm Titre testing has been carried out and the dog has it's own immunity, then that should suffice and be evidence that the dog has immunity and re-vaccination is unnecessary. As I say, my opinion only but I would sure love that to be the case!
-
Mm that's what I thought, I agree if you hav had blood work done and it says they have immunity then that should suffice, I have to put selby into kennels and the last time he had the injection he was I'll for a few days.
-
Mm that's what I thought, I agree if you hav had blood work done and it says they have immunity then that should suffice, I have to put selby into kennels and the last time he had the injection he was I'll for a few days.
I can understand you don't want to vaccinate him. It's about time kennels woke up to the fact that owners are concerned about yearly vaccinations and the dangers that can go with them. But I suppose in all probability, it would affect their insurance if they changed their views and kennelled titre tested dogs so I can't see them ever budging on that one. unfortunately.
-
Don't want to start a discussion regarding the pros and cons of yearly vaccinations, but Toby went to the vet today for his first booster. I asked him about Titre testing and was expecting him to pooh pooh the idea but he was very interested in what I had to say regarding the research I've done concerning boosters and the link to Auto Immune. Long story short, I mentioned Vaccicheck (an inhouse testing currently being used at some veterinary surgeries) and he took details as it isn't anything they use and have not had any other clients asking about Titre testing. He is going to look into it for me and will ring me when he has more info about it.
He was very understanding about my concerns and acknowledged that it could be the way forward for the surgery. I'm feeling chuffed, to be honest. Toby has had his first booster but his subsequent ones will depend on the results of his future Titre testing.
All three of the local vets I asked were similarly interested - I'll be interested to find out what they quote you!
-
When doing the research did it say if they are ok there is no need to vaci ate, how does that stand with the passport would they still let them travel. Selby is due to have his and I don't like him having them.
Are you referring to the pet passport? If so, this is for rabies vaccinations, not anything else. In the UK these are only required every 3 years. So i just have rabies done to keep their passports valid.
-
hi..may be a stupid question but why would you be concerned about yearly vaccinations xx
-
What about pet insurance though? Mine says it is only valid if the dogs' vaccinations are up to date....
Just a thought.
-
I checked with Petplan today and I was informed that Tali won't be covered for the diseases the vaccines would cover however they didn't seem adverse to the fact if I could prove immunity through titring that with the right paperwork they may consider accepting that.
So I will give that a go.
However, he is fully insured for anything else.
-
Found this on another forum:-
We use the Nobivac vaccine. I would prefer not to vaccinate but as I use kennels and they insist on an up to date vaccine we don't have a choice. Nobivac state that the main elements of the vaccine are valid for 3 years but that the Lepto needs to be done annually. Therefore as long as you have lepto in between the 3 yearly Nobivac full vaccine the kennels are complying with their licencing requirements and happy to take your dog. Their licences say they must have a vaccinated dog and if you are vaccinating in line with manufacturers recommendations this is then "fully vaccinated". The price of a Nobivac vaccine is I believe the same as other brands of vaccines and the years that I have only the Lepto I don't pay any less, but at least that way it saves my dog from having a full vaccine every year. If your vet doesn't use Nobivac it may be worth ringing around the other local vets.
Hope it helps
-
Lepto is the dangerous one as it is a live bacterium vaccine. It only covers a couple of strains so a dog can still pick it up even if vaccinated. I also believe it's only effective for about 8 months anyway.
Please read up more on the dangers of these vaccines before boostering your dogs. ;)
-
All three of the local vets I asked were similarly interested - I'll be interested to find out what they quote you!
Wow, if professional ears are pricking that is a major breakthrough. I'll update this post for you as soon as I have spoken to my vet.
hi..may be a stupid question but why would you be concerned about yearly vaccinations xx
I don't have time to reply in detail bentley, so to keep it very, very short, yearly vaccination can contrinbute to an animal developing Auto Immune Disease by overloading it's immune system. The primary and first booster vaccinations can give a dog all the immunity it needs for as much as 7 years (or even lifetime) therefore to booster every year is overloading the animal's system to a possible detrimental affect. When you get time, have a read through this: http://www.wsava.org/VGG1.htm
I checked with Petplan today and I was informed that Tali won't be covered for the diseases the vaccines would cover however they didn't seem adverse to the fact if I could prove immunity through titring that with the right paperwork they may consider accepting that.
So I will give that a go.
However, he is fully insured for anything else.
Mel, getting insurance companies to accept a Titre tested dog is the next step. Are you going to supply the paperwork to them in the hope they will confirm it to you in writing that they are happy to do this?
Lepto is the dangerous one as it is a live bacterium vaccine. It only covers a couple of strains so a dog can still pick it up even if vaccinated. I also believe it's only effective for about 8 months anyway.
Please read up more on the dangers of these vaccines before boostering your dogs. ;)
As you know Mel, Titre testing covers the three core vaccinations: Parvo, Heptatitis and Distemper (Hardpad). The others; Lepto and Para-influenza cannot be tested for and yes indeed, protection from the Lepto vaccine can last for as little as only six months. It's suggested that owners and vets consult as to the risk of a dog coming into contact with Lepto - if your dog drinks from puddles, canals, rivers etc it is at high risk and should have the vaccination. A dog that is walked onlead an doesn't have access to canal, river, puddle water would be classed as low risk. So, the onus is on the owner to assess the risk factor.
Found this on another forum:-
We use the Nobivac vaccine. I would prefer not to vaccinate but as I use kennels and they insist on an up to date vaccine we don't have a choice. Nobivac state that the main elements of the vaccine are valid for 3 years but that the Lepto needs to be done annually. Therefore as long as you have lepto in between the 3 yearly Nobivac full vaccine the kennels are complying with their licencing requirements and happy to take your dog. Their licences say they must have a vaccinated dog and if you are vaccinating in line with manufacturers recommendations this is then "fully vaccinated". The price of a Nobivac vaccine is I believe the same as other brands of vaccines and the years that I have only the Lepto I don't pay any less, but at least that way it saves my dog from having a full vaccine every year. If your vet doesn't use Nobivac it may be worth ringing around the other local vets.
Hope it helps
Thanks Pat, that's interesting to know and my vet uses Nobivac.
-
Just spoken to my vet.
I have three options, apparently.
1. The Vaccicheck inhouse system is not available to the surgery via their normal suppliers, so they would have to purchase from the manufacturers. These kits come in packs of 12 or 120 so as no other client has asked about this, I would have to pay for a batch of 12 which would cost me £155.40 at today's price.
2. I could go with out of house testing at a cost of £71.40 but if the test showed Toby had no immunity to Hardpad or Hepatitis, the surgery would not be able to source a single vaccine very easily, although they think they could source a Parvo vaccine.
3. To go with a three yearly booster but have Toby vaccinated for Lepto and Parainfluenza every year but of course, in this case, I couldn't be 100% certain he had antibodies for the three core diseases.
My vet is quite happy to go the way I want to and is supportive and I have a year to think about it but no doubt there would have been price increases in the next 12 months.
My thought process is to go with the out of house testing, at least at the moment.
-
Unfortunately living in Scotland I could not help, but if enough people lived close to you and their doggies needed the Vaccicheck within the life of the batch bought (kept in the fridge at the vets), then the cost would be reduced. Given you have a year that might be feasible - otherwise I would think the out of house check was the best.
I am registered with Ayrton vets and our current pooch needs his first booster this July and I had already twigged to the annual booster maybe triggering an autoimmune disease at some point. The more of us that raise this the better chance we have of it becoming the standard.
-
Exactly Sula. Not least from a cost effective point of view, how amazing would it be if more owners were aware of the potential risk. Vets could quite easily bring titre testing to the attention of their clients, (can't think of a more powerful way of alerting to the possible dangers of over vaccination) but hey, ho, they are quite happy to stick a needle in an animal regularly, seemingly with no regard for the consequences.