CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Cocoa on August 27, 2012, 12:04:52 PM
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I'd been noticing Cocoa bumping into things for quite a few months but lately it seems to have got worse and at night time she becomes very disorientated. I thought at first it was just a bit of clumsiness as she rushes headlong into everything she does. I took her to the vets and he said she looked as though she had cataracts and referred me to an eye specialist. Anyway after seeing the eye specialist this week it turns out that Cocoa has dense cataracts and her retinas are degenerating and she will go completedly blind within the year, she is only 6 years old. She seems even worse now since seeing the eye specialist. I feel absolutely devastated for Cocoa and keep imagining how she will feel in her dark little world when she finally goes blind, my heart is breaking for her and I am on the verge of tears every time I look at her. I know I have to control this as it will upset her but it is so difficult. She is an only dog so she won't even have company of another doggie to help her. Do any COLers have any tips they can pass on to me to help Cocoa. She seems so sad at the moment or am I imagining this too.
Jackie & Cocoa X
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Oh, so sorry to hear that :'( Poor Cocoa (and you). No advice I'm afraid. There is an old retriever who lives near me who has cataracts and still seems relatively happy, but it does have another dog which must help a bit
Would you consider getting another dog (not a puppy)?
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Sorry that I have no advice.....but I just wanted to say that I am really sorry to hear the news.
Sending big hugs for you and for little Cocoa too. Xxx
Hope someone comes along soon with some positive advice for you.
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Sorry, also no advice, but so sorry to hear this. There was a blind black lab living near me once, I used to see him out on walks. Of course he was always on the lead, but seemed very happy - if you didn't know he was blind you wouldn't have guessed. I chatted to his owner once, and she said that he loved to chase around the garden after his ball which had a bell in it!
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Hi, our Albert was diagnosed with PRA in January. I felt lik you are feeling for a while, kept crying and thinking it was so unfair, especially as there isn't a cure. Albert still has some vision and we have been told it will probably be a while before he goes blind. But he has blind spots. One eye seems worse than the other, we always make sure his eyes are very clean (although not sure if that helps or not).
It did make me feel a lot better that dogs do manage very well if they lose their vision as their sense of smell is so good. I decided to take it one day at a time and enjoy my time with Albert. If you look on COL there are lots of threads about PRA and helping dogs to cope
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So sorry to read this. But these little dogs adapt so well to whatever life throws at them. Sorry can't offer any advice from experience. Do you think Cocoa would like a dog friend who might help her with getting around? Erica's (Jessiepup) Jessie helps Dylan out. I met a lady in a park in Berlin years ago and she had a little blind dog. She carried a little bell with her so her dog could always hear where she was. I'm sure someone with lots of experience will be on here soon to help out with some useful advice. Take care.
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So sorry to read this. :'( I do understand how heart breaking the thought of your best friend going blind is.
My old dog ( a bitza ) went blind due to diabetes in his old age and he adapted very well, still enjoying his walks with his nose by my leg for comfort and security.
Wendy - (Ninasmum) has recently had a similar diagnoses for one of her doglets, I am sure she will come along soon with some support.
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No advice but just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear this and to sympathise with your feelings - it must have been devastating news for you but try to remember that it's you who has had the news and Cocoa has no idea so just take it a day at a time - they are such adaptable little dogs. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: to you both
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So sorry, but don't despair as she will adjust. We had a poodle when we were growing up and she probably had PRA as the same thing happened with her. She was an only dog and she did go completely blind and lived the last 6 yrs of her life like that, but she coped and coped really well. We stopped moving furniture around when we could she she started to bump into things (not that it was ever musical chairs before hand). We kept the same lay out in the garden too and she was fine for the most part and she actually bumped into less things when she became completely blind as I'm assuming she'd make a mental map of the house by then. The only weather that messed her up was snow, and when that happened she would just jump out the back door, feel the difference and just piddle where she stood, I'm assuming the snow covered the usual scent of things and disorientated her.
She had a wonderful life and I'm sure you'll see Cocoa's future differently when you have had time to adjust.
If you haven't ever used a whistle it may be a good idea. Maybe using a fluorescent bib too when she's out so you can always spot her (that's if she goes off lead). There are also Boing balls which have beads in them so that if she likes ball games she can still play them. There is also something called a Halo which can be fitted which stops her bumping into things its to protect her eyes as her natural reflex to shut her eye to protect from damage will be diminished as she loses her sight.
I have also had another dog who had cataracts and was very nearly blind but again she coped very well too. Dogs use their other senses of smell and hearing to cope with sight loss and at 6 yrs both other senses should be very good.
I never wrapped mine in cotton wool, as I believed that it was better for them to remain as independent as possible for as long as possible and as I said before both my dogs were only dogs.
There are also books out there for owners of dogs with sight problems which may be worth reading, but tbh its all about common sense.
Good luck
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Thank you all so much for your kind and helpful comments, I am feeling a little happier already. I've got to be positive about it and do my best for Cocoa to keep her happy. My husband doesn't want to get a second dog and neither really do I. Cocoa is so possessive of us both and i don't feel she would be that happy with another dog in her household but she does have doggie friends that she meets with quite frequently for walks and my sister's dog comes to stay with us quite a lot so she isn't completely isolated. I have ordered a couple of books online today that I have seen mentioned in other posts so they should be helpful.
Jackie & Cocoa X
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Sending great big :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:'s to you and Cocoa :luv: :luv: :luv: x x x
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I'm so sorry to read this and am so glad some lovely COLers with experience have popped in with sound advice and reassurance.
I would just like to thank you for highlighting the problem of PRA... Hopefully it will encourage testing and stop someone on here breeding untested dogs xxxx
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I'm really sorry to read this and send lots of hugs to your lovely girl :-\ I'm sure you will all adjust but it is a big shock :bigarmhug:
Has the specialist said what kind of PRA Cocoa has? I would also contact her breeder if it is the hereditary version as they should know :-\
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So sorry to hear this, I don't have any experience, but sending you lots of positive vibes and hugs :bigarmhug:
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Hi Jackie, sorry to hear about Cocoa, it must have been devastating to get that news. I think though, that as far as Cocoa is concerned she has no fear for the future and will adapt and take it in her stride :luv:
I don't know if you've seen it but we are having a Kent meetup on 16th Sept at Lullingstone CP and it would be lovely to see you both again. Also Erica (Jessiepup) will be there with Dylan, who as mentioned already, is blind, and it may be an opportunity for you to have a chat with her.
Pam
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First of all lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:'s & I am so sorry :'(
I completely understand how you will be feeling right now :'( Our Nina was diagnosed with GPRA in April this year, before her 5th birthday :'( Trying to come to terms with the diagnosis is the hardest part, it is so heartbreaking & like you i kept crying (& still do :embarassed:)
It came as a huge, huge shock esp. even more so as both parents had all the available eye tests prior to her being born :'(
Since the diagnosis sadly her eyesight has deterioated really quickly, at her last check up it was 20% in her right eye & 40% in her left.
Her life hasn't changed at all (apart from me mollycoddling her ph34r), she still does all the usual doggy things that our others do & i've just started taking her to a hydrotherapy pool for fun swimming/games which she absolutely loves. :luv:
Have the vets told you which type of PRA Cocoa has? :shades:
If it is CPRA they normally retain some sight but GPRA almost always leads to total blindness.
If you google 'Living with a Blind Dog' there is loads of info/tips offering really practical advice. :shades:
Please PM me if you need some more support/advice Jackie :D
Will be thinking of you & sending lots of caring, positive thoughts :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Between you & Cocoa you will cope hun :luv:
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The opthalmologist didn't say which type of PRA but she did say she would go completely blind so I guess its the GPRA type. I am so very grateful for all of your helpful posts. Poor Cocoa is feeling very sorry for herself today as she has a poorly leg, not sure how she has done it but she did trip up yesterday so maybe pulled a muscle, I will have to keep an eye on it.
Hollyberry - I haven't looked on the COL meet-up page for a while but I would like to try and come to the meet on 16th September, it would be nice to see you again and also to have a chat with Dylan's mum as well. Will let you know if we are able to come this time.
Love Jackie & Cocoa X
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Hi First of all so sorry to hear Cocoa has PRA. You might have searched some previous posts on PRA and found posts about Dylan.
He developed cataracts three years ago when he was 8yrs he is now 11. Like you I was devastated and upset. Dogs don't see a disability like we do, they get on with life as they always did. Dylan manages very well, I don't think his life has changed much at all, and Jessie looks after him too they are very much a team :luv:.
He has a Boingo ball you can buy at P& H, he also likes the Kong Squeaky tennis balls. Scenting games are good finding biscuits etc and the Nina Ottersson games are good.
I didn't buy any special books about blind dogs, I watched and learnt from Dylan what his needs were . Using a whistle for recall is useful. He also knows how to stop at a kerb and step low or step up. A lot of instinct and knowing your own dog.
Might see you at our meet-up in Kent. Sending you and Cocoa :bigarmhug: Erica.
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So sorry to hear this
One thing you'll find is that as long as you don't mollycoddle them dogs do a lot better than you think when blind - I have a river swimming, hillwalking (offlead), fun agility jumping blind girl who gets as much out of life as she did before she was blind. Roobs is still as norty as she was before as well and can outrun me when she scents a picnic across the park as nothing will stop her. I think its more a shock for us than them. The only thing that is the same for Roobs is where the water bowl is - I peridodically have furniture moving or obstacles in the way in the house.
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Just wanted to send my best wishes to you both. I think we naturally see blindness from a human point of view, and I know I would be devastated as you are with this diagnosis, but I don't think it is such a big deal for dogs.
Good luck to you both x
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I am so sorry for you all, sorry no advice but lots of hugs and love coming your way x
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I am so sorry for you all, sorry no advice but lots of hugs and love coming your way x
From me as well.
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Lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: for you both :luv:
As Ninasmum and PennyB have said blind doglets can do extremely well. My Bella Boo is blind or as near as but still goes swimming, runs around off lead and generally does everything a sighted dog will do :luv:
Special :-* to Cocoa, take care
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Thank you all for your comments and support, COLers are such lovely supportive people, I feel whole lot better about things from reading your advice and comments. I am sure Cocoa will be fine and I have to just stop seeing it from my human point of view as animals are far better at coping with disabilities than we are.
Love Jackie & Cocoa X
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Jackie, I am so sorry to hear about Cocoa :'( i just wanted to send you lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: I know lots of dogs seem to adjust really well, i do hope this will be the the case for Cocoa :luv: :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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I've only just seen this as I've not been on for a while but I'm so sorry to hear about Cocoa :'( :'( We had the same news about Poppy in January and I was devastated....... I like you just kept thinking how I would feel but our Vet said "she doesn't know she is going blind or that this does not happen to all dogs" so I tried to keep that in mind and not tranfer my worry to her. Its very hard........ :'(
Anyway fast forward 9 months and she is still the same wee little dog (barks a bit more at people / objects till she works them out) but generally I've not noticed too much difference so far. (Touch wood, fingers crossed and everything else).
Two things - one we trained her to a whistle (why oh why did we not do this before or has she suddenly just tuned into it........) the other was this supplement that the vet recomended http://www.ocuglo.com/products.asp - no one on here seems to have come across it but we thought we would give it a try and perhaps its slowing it down or perhaps its doing nothing who knows but i feel better for having something to give her and if its not doing her any harm then I'm ok with a supplement.
We really cant work out what she can and cant see - sometimes you wonder how much she can and then today she was barking from the upstairs window at the neighbours dog who had her head stuck through the bush about 50 yards away so she can see something.
Anyway what I wanted to say is I'm keeping everything crossed that Cocoa is similar to Poppy and its more slow to take her sight than you expect and you then have lots of time to adapt to the subtle changes and train her up. Poppy is off the lead all the time just like any other dog and I always intend to keep it this way unless she is in any danger (cliffs, roads etc). I still let her tiptoe along the edge of the canal and give me a heart attack...... (she has only fallen in once and that was years ago as a puppy!).
Cocoa will adapt becuase you will help her and give her all the love and confidence to allow her other senses to adapt. :luv: :luv:
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Jackie, I am so sorry to hear about Cocoa :'( i just wanted to send you lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: I know lots of dogs seem to adjust really well, i do hope this will be the the case for Cocoa :luv: :luv:
Only just seen this Jackie and want to say the same as Steph :bigarmhug:
I am sure your lovely girl will cope really well and you will get used to the idea in time too - it must be awful though :'( As you say though, animals cope much better than we do with problems and I am sure she will carry on and have a long and happy life :luv:
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How is Cocoa? :luv:
Have been thinking about you both :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Oddly enough I was just thinking about this as well and worndering how she is doing
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Hi again everyone and thank you for your enquiries about Cocoa. Thank you Amanda for that lovely post and I am glad Poppy is coping so well. It is very reassuring and I will certainly look up the supplement. As you have suggested, at least you feel as if you are doing something and it can't do any harm trying her on it. I'm not sure how much Cocoa can and can't see either. I have noticed that she stays closer to me now on walks as she was inclined to go off on a scent after rabbits but she doesn't seem to go quite so far now and comes straight back to me to check in. I have been reinforcing whistle training and she is responding to that quite well and have also started to say things like "step up" and "step down" to get her ready for when the time comes she can't see. She doesn't seem to see at all well at night. To make matters worse we have some building work going on now in the back of the house for an extension and it is troubling her somewhat having to pick her way across things. I have noticed that her pupils are staying dilated most of the time now and I only see her lovely amber eyes now when it is really bright and sunny :'(. She seems quite happy at the moment though and I have a feeling she will cope with it. Unfortunately her problem is compounded by the cataracts that she already has on top of the PRA so I would think her vision is quite dim and probably has been for some time. She is a crazy little dog though and charges around and I get so worried about her banging her head or poking her eyes on something.
Ninasmum - I have checked all Cocoa's paperwork and her parents were tested and pronounced unaffected by CPRA/GPRA I believe like Nina. I have also told the breeder and she isn't aware of any others in the line that have developed this. It is strange, I don't understand the genetics of it all and how Cocoa has come to be affected. The breeder said it could be a throw-back. But anyway I am trying very hard to stay positive and will continue to do all I can to help my little girl and try very hard not to spoil her too much ;)
Love Jackie & Cocoa XX
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Ninasmum - I have checked all Cocoa's paperwork and her parents were tested and pronounced unaffected by CPRA/GPRA I believe like Nina. I have also told the breeder and she isn't aware of any others in the line that have developed this. It is strange, I don't understand the genetics of it all and how Cocoa has come to be affected. The breeder said it could be a throw-back. But anyway I am trying very hard to stay positive and will continue to do all I can to help my little girl and try very hard not to spoil her too much ;)
Really sorry to hear about Cocoa but am sure she will cope well with your help :luv: What the breeder says is a bit misleading - you've posted Cocoa's KC name in the past so I did a health test check on the KC website and it shows that Cocoa's parents have never been DNA tested for PRA - both parents were clinically eye tested some years ago but clinical eye tests only tell you whether a dog is unaffected at the time they were tested, they can't tell you whether the dog is a carrier or even might be affected later (the DNA test does). Both of Cocoa's parents are at least carriers of GPRA to have produced it but sadly for Cocoa, the breeder didn't DNA test and so was not aware of this when she bred the litter (hopefully she does DNA test now although it doesn't sound like it if she's not aware she's bred from carriers :-\)
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Hi Jane, thank you for clarifying that. I fully understand what you are saying. The breeder is quite elderly and I feel that she isn't up to speed on this (as I wasn't when I first bought Cocoa but know a lot more now thanks to COL). She originally purchased Cocoa's parents from a certain commercial breeding kennel (won't say the name but I am sure you know who I mean, they have since been closed down according to the breeder). She says all her dogs are eye checked but she then went on to ask me if Cocoa could be cured :huh: She is still breeding but you are right, I think she probably believes that the eye test is enough. Lets hope we are wrong. The opthalmologist is doing a lot of research on PRA and asked me to send Cocoa's pedigree which I have done as she likes to collect pedigrees from dogs she has diagnosed with this to help with her research. She says there are a lot of cockers and labradors in our area that have got this condition.
Thank you again for this information, hopefully in the distant future it will be something that can be prevented.
Jackie & Cocoa XX
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Hi Jane, thank you for clarifying that. I fully understand what you are saying. The breeder is quite elderly and I feel that she isn't up to speed on this (as I wasn't when I first bought Cocoa but know a lot more now thanks to COL). She originally purchased Cocoa's parents from a certain commercial breeding kennel (won't say the name but I am sure you know who I mean, they have since been closed down according to the breeder). She says all her dogs are eye checked but she then went on to ask me if Cocoa could be cured :huh: She is still breeding but you are right, I think she probably believes that the eye test is enough. Lets hope we are wrong. The opthalmologist is doing a lot of research on PRA and asked me to send Cocoa's pedigree which I have done as she likes to collect pedigrees from dogs she has diagnosed with this to help with her research. She says there are a lot of cockers and labradors in our area that have got this condition.
Yes that is often the problem with some older breeders - a shame though, especially as she is could still be breeding from carriers and producing more puppies which could go blind in the future :( The most common form of GPRA is preventable now with DNA testing (except for rare cases like Ninasmum's Nina who has a form of PRA not covered by the current DNA test) but sadly we'll still get affected dogs while there are breeders who don't DNA test. You might also want to send Cocoa's pedigree to the Cocker Club Welfare Co-ordinator so that the details are recorded in the annual Welfare booklet - let me know if you want the email address.
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Thanks for the update on Cocoa :luv:
It sounds like you are doing everything you can to help her Jackie :shades: :luv:
Its good to know your Opthamologist is doing a lot of research too, as Nina's is also :shades:
Is your Opthamologist not able to give you an indication of how much Cocoa's vision has deteriorated? :shades:
We are due to go back in October & i expect to be told Nina's has worsened since our last visit in June :'( I can tell just with subtle little change's her's has worsened....she still chase's balls but it is mainly done with scent which she is getting very good at....over the last couple of months she can no longer see any treats i give her & its not until its right in front of her nose that she realise's, although if its anything strong smelling she stands their doing her 'guppy fish' impression :005: :'( waiting for it to drop in her mouth :005: bless her little heart :luv:
Its a shame we don't live locally as it makes such a huge, huge difference to have some support :shades:
Thinking of you both & let us know how Cocoa gets on in the future :luv: :bigarmhug:
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Dylan does the same with treats think he is sitting near me and opens his mouth thinking he is going to get a treat. Been having difficulty getting him out for his last wee at night. Goes out turns round and comes back in again.
Erica.