CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: MrsS on September 21, 2012, 03:30:40 PM
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My husband and I are looking at getting a cocker (doing our research at this stage) and I wondered about the colour types and their personality. I met a lady at the weekend who told me to steer clear of the solid colours as these can have aggressive personalities.
Is this true?? If we chose a puppy with a gold and white coat, would this likely differ from a puppy with a solid gold coat?
Cockers are very new to us (had two westies in the past) so any information you can share would be really helpful.
Thanks
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Personally I don't think this holds any truth, I have a solid black and a solid gold both show girls. My golden is only 14 wks so is in the cockerdile stage but no more that any other pup of this age.
My black is 15mnths and is the gentlest, most laid back, cuddliest cocker ever (so much so that I think someone forgot to tell her she is a cocker) and has been this way since we got her at 8 weeks. She is also extremely good with the pup and lets her get away with everything.
I think that this is a myth and as long as a dog is bred for temperament by good breeders using good health tested dogs then colour is irrelevant.
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I think that this notion comes from years ago when alot of inbreeding took place, and likely still happens at puppy farms resulting in problems with health and temperament irrespective of colour >:D
I have had solid colours, roans and tri colours and haven't noticed any difference in their temperaments.
Just make sure you find a reputable breeder who breeds for health and temperament :D
Good luck with your research, there is an excellent thread on here about what to look for http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=48072.0
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I believe there's some truth in the idea that solids temperament is not so reliable as Parti colours.
Whenever you read about an aggressive cocker 9 times out of 10 it's a solid causing the problems.
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If you use the search facility at the top of the page on the right,you will find quite a few threads about temperament and colour. ;)
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I believe there's some truth in the idea that solids temperament is not so reliable as Parti colours.
Whenever you read about an aggressive cocker 9 times out of 10 it's a solid causing the problems.
Quite a sweeping statement.... Care to elaborate ???
As the owner of 3 excellent tempered girls I am keen to hear your input. And I'm not being rude or sarcastic, just curious... :blink:
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I believe there's some truth in the idea that solids temperament is not so reliable as Parti colours.
Whenever you read about an aggressive cocker 9 times out of 10 it's a solid causing the problems.
Quite a sweeping statement.... Care to elaborate ???
As the owner of 3 excellent tempered girls I am keen to hear your input. And I'm not being rude or sarcastic, just curious... :blink:
Probably quite alot of solid owners thinking the same
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I believe there's some truth in the idea that solids temperament is not so reliable as Parti colours.
Whenever you read about an aggressive cocker 9 times out of 10 it's a solid causing the problems.
I too would be interested in a defined explanation to your statement. Where are you reading about aggressive cockers :dunno:
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I think it's absolute codswallop
:blink:
This topic seems to pop up regularly, if you do a search at the top of the page you will find lots of threads about this.
Finding a reputable breeder and training positively with lots of socialisation are the most important things if you want a dog with a good temperament.
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Rosie is a solid golden cocker and is the most sweetest and softest dog I have ever known.
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I really believe that temperament is not colour affected at all. The same as children, you get out what you put in :blink:
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Two solids here, one being the dreaded red colour lol. I have two beautiful mild tempered girls.
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I really believe that temperament is not colour affected at all. The same as children, you get out what you put in :blink:
Exactly
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I really believe that temperament is not colour affected at all. The same as children, you get out what you put in :blink:
Exactly
Agreed,though genetics play a big part too. ;)
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Hello and welcome.
What credentials did the lady you met at the weekend have for making this statement? Has she produced a scientifically researched paper on colour and temperament for example? (Top Barks on here was doing one but I don't know if he's reached any conclusions yet.)
SInce you'll be doing a lot of research before getting your cocker, you'll be making your own mind up anyway. (COL is a very good place to start.) Just make sure your puppy is from a reputable breeder and has health checked parents. Good luck and keep us posted.
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I really believe that temperament is not colour affected at all. The same as children, you get out what you put in :blink:
Exactly
Agreed,though genetics play a big part too. ;)
Aye im sure they play a huge part but still.... take a lovely genetically created temperament and treat it in an inappropriate way and you can still ruin what nature started to create........just my opinion.
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Well bred, health tested parents are the answer.......by the way I don't know any bad tempered cockers and as far as solids are concerned, they are the best natured dogs and I have partis.
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There is a VERY rare condition known as rage which historically was believed to be more prevalent in solid coloured dogs. Sadly, lots of people that don't know much about cockers have picked up on this and so the prevalent but inaccurate belief that solid coloured cockers may have aggressive personalities has circulated. Rage is so very rare, and appears to be more of a mental health disorder than a personality thing - the dogs who suffer from it often have lovely personalities other then the attacks of "rage". Finding a good breeder will help to ensure that your puppy has the best start, and because rage is so rare there really is no reason to discriminate between colours.
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There is a VERY rare condition known as rage which historically was believed to be more prevalent in solid coloured dogs. Sadly, lots of people that don't know much about cockers have picked up on this and so the prevalent but inaccurate belief that solid coloured cockers may have aggressive personalities has circulated. Rage is so very rare, and appears to be more of a mental health disorder than a personality thing - the dogs who suffer from it often have lovely personalities other then the attacks of "rage". Finding a good breeder will help to ensure that your puppy has the best start, and because rage is so rare there really is no reason to discriminate between colours.
and cockers aren't the only breed to 'suffer' from 'rage syndrome' - springers, golden retrievers, papillions have also been reported cases.
It is likened to a type of fit or seizure, since the dog in question has no 'recollection' of the event, somewhat like an epileptic fit. In which case good breeding techniques and practices help keep such genetic mishaps from hopefully occurring.
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I really believe that temperament is not colour affected at all. The same as children, you get out what you put in :blink:
Exactly
Agreed,though genetics play a big part too. ;)
Aye im sure they play a huge part but still.... take a lovely genetically created temperament and treat it in an inappropriate way and you can still ruin what nature started to create........just my opinion.
Not to get into a debate, but... although both genetics and environment determine the temperament of the dog, genetics is the stronger influence of the two. A genetically fearful dog will always be a fearful dog, though training and socialization will help manage to a certain degree. A dog with a genetically stable temperament will prevail over practically any harsh treatment and will eventually recover from it with their temperament intact. Take for instance, Michael Vick's APBTs that suffered the worst of atrocities yet have been adopted out and have prospered in responsible pet homes. It is very difficult to ruin a dog with a rock solid temperament.
Back to the originally question, if there is more cases of solid Cockers being more aggressive, the trait is probably linked more to the lines that produce these dogs than to their actual color. When kennels are more focused on producing a particular popular color (lets just say red as an example) vs producing a healthy dog with a solid temperament then you're going to see more red dogs with bad temperaments flooding the market than you would another color.
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Whilst I appreciate all your knowledge and experience, I did actually agree genetics play a huge part, not a small part and I didn't say that environmental influences ruining a temperament couldn't be recovered with patience. I was merely trying to point out that colour is no guarantee of whether you get a well balanced dog and other things also play a part. I may not be an expert in anything but I know my dogs enough to know that what I have ploughed in has been given back to me in spades.
Sorry to the OP for this topic taking a detour :-\
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Whilst I appreciate all your knowledge and experience, I did actually agree genetics play a huge part, not a small part and I didn't say that environmental influences ruining a temperament couldn't be recovered with patience. I was merely trying to point out that colour is no guarantee of whether you get a well balanced dog and other things also play a part. I may not be an expert in anything but I know my dogs enough to know that what I have ploughed in has been given back to me in spades.
Sorry to the OP for this topic taking a detour :-\
i, for one understand exactly what you are saying.....i would just like to add that what would also worry me is someone buying a certain colour believing that the temperament must be ok whilst discounting another colour because they believe that colour to have temperament problems. For me, its important that all dogs in the lineage would be of sound temperament and health tested.
For example.....a friend of a friend, decided not to buy a pup from me as it was "red" and someone had told her that the reds were the worst for ""rage""...my dogs are bred for health (all tested) and temperament, this person went on to buy an UNhealth tested blue roan, who admittedly is lovely, but she has no idea about the sire used, other than a name, i just hope she doesnt live to regret it and that he has PRA or FN, or indeed was not bred for temperament!!!
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and cockers aren't the only breed to 'suffer' from 'rage syndrome' - springers, golden retrievers, papillions have also been reported cases.
It is likened to a type of fit or seizure, since the dog in question has no 'recollection' of the event, somewhat like an epileptic fit. In which case good breeding techniques and practices help keep such genetic mishaps from hopefully occurring.
Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but what you say in your comment above about other breeds struck a cord - our last dog, Cassie, a golden retriever suffered from epilepsy (sadly, she is now at the bridge) Her seizures were classic, normal seizures, but last year she had a strange one - she showed all her usual signs of an on coming seizure, but then just got aggressive, backing away from me, barking, growling and baring her teeth at me. We were out in the garden at the time, and when she started lunging at me, I made a hasty retreat into the kitchen and watched from the window. After a few minutes, in which she continued to bark and growl, she stopped and then went into her normal post-seizure actions. I wonder if that was similar to 'rage', although she only ever had one like that.
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Ive read a similar thing about solids - i was surprised that colour would do that.....
The only other colour related to temperament ive heard about is different personalities, someone told me that orange roans were a little crazier and more independant and blue roans seemed to be more people orientated. I dont know how true this is or if its something to do with that persons dogs but its interesting to hear about.
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Ive read a similar thing about solids - i was surprised that colour would do that.....
The only other colour related to temperament ive heard about is different personalities, someone told me that orange roans were a little crazier and more independant and blue roans seemed to be more people orientated. I dont know how true this is or if its something to do with that persons dogs but its interesting to hear about.
I have blue and orange roans and the orange is the most laid back dog I have ever know, defo not crazy.
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I thought golden cockers who had a little white on them was still classed as a solid? or am I wrong???
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There is a VERY rare condition known as rage which historically was believed to be more prevalent in solid coloured dogs. Sadly, lots of people that don't know much about cockers have picked up on this and so the prevalent but inaccurate belief that solid coloured cockers may have aggressive personalities has circulated. Rage is so very rare, and appears to be more of a mental health disorder than a personality thing - the dogs who suffer from it often have lovely personalities other then the attacks of "rage". Finding a good breeder will help to ensure that your puppy has the best start, and because rage is so rare there really is no reason to discriminate between colours.
and cockers aren't the only breed to 'suffer' from 'rage syndrome' - springers, golden retrievers, papillions have also been reported cases.
It is likened to a type of fit or seizure, since the dog in question has no 'recollection' of the event, somewhat like an epileptic fit. In which case good breeding techniques and practices help keep such genetic mishaps from hopefully occurring.
Totally agree.
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I thought golden cockers who had a little white on them was still classed as a solid? or am I wrong???
White is allowed on the chest, (cocker breed standard) and they are still classed as solids. Same with blacks.