CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: ziggy9269 on November 28, 2012, 09:55:50 PM
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I hope anyone can give me some advice about my problem. It is a little long my story so I do apologise.
My cocker, Lily is 2 years old. 2 years ago she was mauled, when 5 months old, by a Japanese Akita. She was like a rag in its mouth, held in its mouth by her tummy and I really thought she was dead. She was screaming and crying and the owner of the other dog, casually walked over and started swearing and threatening me, saying it was my fault (nutcase). He grabbed his dog and walked away to his friend and they were laughing at me. I was in tears, shouting for help and even thought there were other people around - NO-ONE helped... I still get upset about this ( I am getting upset now as I type this). Lily was patched up and I did get the police involved. Nothing done really - he denied everything when the police went round to his house.... >:D
After that any dogs who came near, Lily was scrambling up my legs and crying and shaking.
Now, she will not tolerate ANY other dog, what-so-ever. If we are sat for example in an outdoor tearoom, cafe, ice-cream parlour, she continuously barks to the point where we have to get up and leave. She goes mad if anything comes near her, growling and barking, chasing any dog who comes near her. I have to be so careful if we are out at our favourite spot - the beach - as sometimes friendly dogs (who obviously want to play) come over, she snaps at them and chases them away. The bigger the dog, the worse she is. The number of times, I have to shout to people to keep their dogs away, as "mine does not like other dogs”, is unbelievable.
I have had her to 3 different dog training clubs and trainers and every time, she growls at the dogs in the group and CONSTANTLY barks, where we have had to take her into an other room out of the way. I am at my whits end now.
All I want is for my little dog to be able to run and play with other dogs, and not fear the chance of her attacking anything. She is absolutely fine with people and it is really upsetting me, that because of that swine who let his dog nearly kill mine, I have been left with a little dog who will not tolerate any other dog.
Lily is an absoulte sweetheart at home, loving, friendly, a real soppy thing - who even enjoys a lovely foot massage ( :005: ) and a tummy tickle.
I was wanting another cocker at some point, but with this problem with Lily, I don’t think it is a good idea with her behaviour with other dogs. We took her earlier this year to see her mum and sister, and because Sadie (her sister) ran into the living room - to say hello of course - Lily started SCREAMING and ran behind the settee.
Any ideas from anyone at all? I am so frustated with the whole thing and I do not know what to do next. I have asked the Vet for advice but all they suggested was a training course, which I have tried but has not helped....
Sorry again for the long post :lol2:
Thanks in advance - Lily (and me) :luv:
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Maybe a long shot, but could you maybe try her on a calming med, like skullcap from Dorwest Herbs, it might take the edge off her fear enough to work with a trainer and yourself.
They also have Valarian compound which is good for high anxiety situations when you need that little extra help.
Just a thought x
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Gosh what a terrifying experience you must have had and poor Lily to be hurt by another dog. :bigarmhug: to you both...
My immediate thought is to be thankful that you have a happy Lily most of the time, she's healthy and gets on with humans - why try to make her like, or trust, other dogs? I understand that you really want her to be like other cockers and enjoy her time out being relaxed around other dogs but is that too much to ask from her when she's been through such an experience?
Pearl was attacked on her first walk out, on the lead. Sadly, it was my friends dog and completely unexpected to us both - naturally its caused tension between Sal and myself; I've not seen her dog since and Pearl now has a distinct dislike of big brown dogs - can't say I blame her either......18 months on and we still have some issues, out walking, which I believe stem back to that one incident - and it was no where near as bad as Lily experienced.
I should mention that I have taken great care to be relaxed around big brown dogs, with Pearl, as I'm sure she picks up if I'm anxious......
We've been to a behaviourist, really for my benefit as I'd like to do the best I can for her. I wanted Pearl to join in the fun with Brodie and Jinley on walks, generally she prefers to be closer to me although at random times she will join in it's always a bit tentative - she seems to get so far then chicken out! To be honest, I really just have to accept that Pearl gets stressed / over excited if there are other dogs around that are "misbehaving" in her view! Yes, she is miss goody two shoes now ;) and comes back to me to tell them off :005: we have some coping strategies and she is getting better - or at least I think she is.
Lily sounds such a lovely girl in every other way....all our dogs have their idiosyncrasies, maybe this is just part of her makeup now?
Perhaps others on here have had a different experience - or more experience than I have, I just wanted to share that you are not alone in having a dog that reacts to others due to past history.
Jayne
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[modified to read a bit better as I was tired when I wrote it last night]
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I totally agree with Jayne :shades:
& so sorry Lily had this awful experience :'(
Nina had a couple of scary experience's when she was younger & it did/has affected her badly :'(
Some dogs are more sensitive/nervous than others & it might be (as i have with Nina) you have to accept & manage how Lily reacts in various situations. :-\
Nina was well socialised from a very early age, she went to ringcraft, 2 seperate training classes, walked a lot with other dogs & we had a behavourist visit too, but despite everything i now accept this is how she is....on top of everything else she was diagnosed with GPRA earlier this year & is now almost blind. :'(
She still barks at other dogs/people, although this has subsided a little as she has got older but we now have the added problem of her being startled in various situations.
I would never take her to a busy area where there maybe lots of dogs/people because she will go into 'meltdown' :'( so i walk her in quiet area's, play ball with her, take her over the N.F occasionally & also to Hydrotherapy for fun swimming lessons. She still has a wonderful quality of life but its far from a normal dog's life. :shades:
The one thing that does help is a friend on here has a very laid back Vizla :luv: & we occasionally go walking with him & his owner Caz. Nina will now happily walk alongside him (its so sweet to watch) because he is no threat to her whatsoever & totally ignore's her. :shades:
If you could find someone with a laid back dog to walk Lily with, this may help boost her confidence. :-\
Lots of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:'s Its hard isn't it :'(
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I'm so sorry that you and Lily had such a terrible experience and I'm guessing you're as traumatised by it as poor Lily, and I can fully understand that. No dog or owner is going to get over such a horrific experience easily or quickly.
My younger Cocker, Louis, was attacked by a Lurcher over 2 years ago. The attack wasn't as bad as the one poor Lily endured but I thought Louis was going to be killed and the experience left him unable to cope with other dogs and me incredibly anxious about taking him anywhere. Louis was 11 months old when it happened and he went from being a slightly anxious dog to being incredibly reactive to any dog that came near, a sort of get-in-first-ask-questions-later reactivity.
I've worked hard since then to find ways of helping Louis to stay calm around other dogs and we're making progress. But I'm sure he'll never be 100% with other dogs and that I'm always going to have to be very pro-active in managing his walks. It's hard work and I've had to accept that I'll never be able to do the things that I wanted to with Louis because he can't cope with being close to other dogs, especially if he's on lead. I've given up on training classes because he can't cope with a group of dogs. It just blows his mind and he can't focus on me at all and has no self control.
When we're walking we're lucky enough to be in open spaces (New Forest) with no road walking so Louis is off lead. I have to be watchful all the time and make decisions on Louis's behalf about how close to other dogs we can safely go without him losing self control and chasing, barking and growling. Initially I trained him to do a "watch me" where he sits in front of me and focuses on me while other dogs walk past. It can work well as long as the other dog doesn't come over to investigate. Another tactic is for me to reward every calm action he makes. For instance, if a dog is at a distance and Louis looks at it but does nothing I quietly praise and reward him. If I have to put him on lead for any reason and he's able to walk past another dog at a distance without pulling and barking I quietly praise and reward. If he barks and lunges I don't tell him off but walk on until he's calmed down.
It's very hard work and we have failures. I can predict fairly accurately what Louis will do but not always what other dogs will do. My goal all the time is to keep Louis calm because if he's calm he has enough self-control to make a good decision and not react. Once he starts reacting he's lost the self-control and it can take a few days to get it back again. But on a good day he can now be quite close to quiet, non-reactive dogs and can cope, so we're making progress.
It's really tough and very isolating owning a reactive dog, so I fully sympathise with what you're going through with Lily. I have an 8 year old Cocker as well as Louis but I've had to accept that if I lose my older boy before Louis I won't be able to introduce another dog into the household. Louis is a sweetheart at home but I'm absolutely sure he wouldn't accept a new dog in the house and it would be disastrous.
Have you thought of trying some one to one sessions with a good behaviourist? Lily won't be in a class with other dogs so will be under less pressure and the behaviourist should come up with some strategies you can use to help Lily stay calm.
Sorry for the length of the post but I wanted to explain what helps Louis and that I know how difficult, frustrating and heartbreaking it is to own a reactive dog :bigarmhug:
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Thanks guys.
I really appreciate all of your advice and it is comforting that by hearing other peoples stories, I am not alone... I was chatting to a lady on the beach this morning, and she has said exactly the same..... using calming meds and just accepting that it is the way she is... I knew I was not going to get her completely over her experience.
She is ok, when out on the beach, with her tennis ball (which she carries constantly :lol2:) and other dogs are a certain distance away, as soon as any dog starts to run over, that’s when the problems start... and it a quick recall or “stay” until I clip her back onto her lead.
I feel frustrated that because of itdiots who allow their dogs to do this, cause problems in the long run for sensible dog owners, and to be honest, this guy will have completely forgotten about it. >:( He couldn’t have cared less.
I have been chatting a an older dog owner, who has a beautiful black and tan cocker Jessie, and lately (last 2 days) Lily will accept to sniff her and have a little wag of the tail, then the constant barking starts...Jessie, just stands there staring at Lily as if to say “Oh shut up, you are giving me a headache” :005:
It’s so comforting to know I am not alone, and that there are STILL decent dogs owners out there. I have owned dogs all of my life and I have seen a MASSIVE change in how owners control their dogs, behave, etc.
Thank you all so much again, I appreciate your time in replying and typing :lol2:
I’ll see if any other COL who live in my area would maybe willing to do a meet up and perhaps slowly and slightly change her attitude to other dogs...
I know it sounds pathetic, but I still say “If only I hadn’t taken her there that day”.... I feel so bad still about it and every time I pass the place I do feel myself getting upset.... I do agree, it has completely traumatised me, and maybe I need advice too, as I do start to tense and this of course will be picked up by Lily.
Being a doggie owner is a challenge isn’t it??? :lol:
Thanks again - such lovely helpful COL ;) Hugs back to you all
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I’ll see if any other COL who live in my area would maybe willing to do a meet up and perhaps slowly and slightly change her attitude to other dogs...
There are lots of lovely COLers in the North East and there is a meet up planned for this Sunday :shades: :D
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=95312.75
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Ahhhh Pop-Star... thank you so much for that..... so, so kind but I live in South Shields, so Middlesborough is a little too far. However, I did my Riding Instructor training in Eston, 20 odd years ago, and it’s a lovely place. :lol2:
I think there are other members close to my neck of the woods, but thanks again.
Saying that.... we still pop down to Teeside and have spent a day at Roseberry Topping - so lovely :luv:
I definitely think, getting to know other spaniels, even if for a little gentle walk on the lead will help Lily :lol:
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I've done a couple of COL meet ups with Louis and, if it's any help to you Ziggy9269, this is how I've "managed" them. First, I've checked on COL to see how many dogs are going and if I think any of them might be reactive (that's not a reflection on them or their owners, but me being realistic about what I can expect of Louis). If there will be any dogs going that I'm sure Louis won't cope with, or if there are any puppies, I just don't go! The puppy thing is that Louis bullies them by growling and knocking over and I don't want that to happen of course.
If I think it's going to be a meet up that Louis can cope with I arrive early and I don't wait at the meet up point because I know that Louis on lead and being close to a bunch of excited Cockers will just make him really anxious, he won't be able to maintain self control and our walk will have failed before it's begun. So I walk on a little way and mooch around with him, maybe a bit of ball throwing, but mainly letting him relax off lead. When the walk starts off I let people and dogs start to catch up with us and just blend in as best we can. Once we're all on the move Louis is much more likely to cope than when people and dogs are standing around.
Since the attack I've only taken Louis to a couple of meet ups and those have only been with about 4 dogs, all of which I know will pretty much ignore Louis. I still won't chance him with a bigger group because I know he's not ready.
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Some dog schools do 'reactive dog' sessions for dogs and owners just like you. Is there a good dog school near you who could help, or maybe one that someone on here could recommend :-\ Maybe Jessies owner would do a few quiet walks with you? She sounds perfect, just the right sort of dog to help Lily rebuild her confidence :D
I would happily walk with you and my Vizsla ( I'm Ninasmum's friend ) , it's a shame you are so far away, I am in Hampshire :-\ :D
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Pearl and I go to as many meets as we can -tbh I organise some now for that very reason! Not only is it a very enjoyable experience for me :shades: but Pearl is put in the position that she is learning to be more relaxed/less stressed with other dogs.
The first walk at Cannock - way back in March - was a worry and she constantly dragged at the bottom of my jeans [and will occasionally nip] it's her way of telling me its getting too much for her. We either hang back or use some form of distraction: if I see it happening then I can turn her return into a recall [think that makes sense??] and reward her for it. Or depending on her body language, which I'm starting to be able to read :huh: she's either reassured that all is ok, given an instruction such as sit - followed by the watch me command [which is just fantastic for focussing her back onto me] or possibly told off if there was no trigger and she's just doing it for attention.....which seems to be the latest developmet - as, of course, there's no such thing as bad attention from a doggie point of view ;)
The behaviourist also suggested rewarding Pearl with food - something I'd never done before - as she comes back, to crumble some treat/sausage into bits and scatter on the ground. Not only does it distract Pearl from the attempted "trouser grabbing" but gives off a signal to other dogs that she's happy and relaxed - tail wagging, sniffing the ground! It does seem to help with her confidence.
I should say a very big thank you to Patp, SarahR and especially Sarah/G - they have been so patient with us both - we walk together most weeks and they just accept Pearls odd behaviour when it occurs - Thank you Ladies [and Rob of course ;)]
I agree with Bluebell about attending a 1-2-1 session. The behaviourist will try to replicate the situation for Pearl, at our next visit, so she can give more advice and techniques - it really is as much me learning how to deal with the situation and pre-empt it occuring as much as it is Pearl's behaviour changing.
Will watch this post with interest - thank you for starting it off x
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Hi, just wondered if you had tried her reaction with a puppy? May be she might come to cope with a pup that grew up with her? Just a thought...... Good luck
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I should say a very big thank you to Patp, SarahR and especially Sarah/G - they have been so patient with us both - we walk together most weeks and they just accept Pearls odd behaviour when it occurs - Thank you Ladies [and Rob of course ;)]
Glad to be of help, but I thought it was our company and the drinking and eating you came for :005: ;)
Px
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Hi sorry to hear about the attack and it's effects on you both. Up until having my child four years ago i worked in a mental health team and we worked with people with extreme phobias and ptsd. I guess your dog has a kind of dog version of this. I don't know if this is helpful or doable but with people we used graded exposure. This involved tiny tiny steps, putting the person in the specific situation that made them uncomfortable for maybe only a few minutes then slowly building the time up. We only increased the time of exposure once the person could cope with the present level if that makes sense? It definitely worked with people but i guess would be much harder with a dog and sadly your little one will probably always have some level of fear. Good luck to you both, she sounds like a lovely dog who's been dealt a real blow to her confidence x
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Hello again - thanks for your lovely advice. :lol2:
lottiescat - she is exactly the same with puppies. Anything which moves fast and she is worse. A little pup ran across to us a few months ago, and she reacted exactly the same way - it not the size as such. This is what happened when she was attacked.
The Akita just shot across the hill towards us and was on top of Lily in seconds. It seemed to have appeared from nowhere. And it flipped her onto her back and grabbed her under belly, which as also resulted in her not liking to be groomed underneath - we really have to take time with when grooming under her tum. The attack was totally out of the blue - so it’s the speed, which I think is the problem. After the dog attacked the owner was casually walking over to us, in no great hurry and I am shouting for him to please help..... he started shouting in my face and using lots of bad language. His dog was not on the lead, Lily was as she was only 5 months old and her recall was still developing. It was awful. Seeing the bloody and hearing her screaming - I will never ever forget it.
A little Bichon came to say “Good morning” yesterday at the beach and off she went - Barking and Snarling. I just seem to spend my time out apologising.
Lily is never let off her lead unless the ‘coast is clear’ so-to-speak :lol2: Carrying her tennis ball is her security I think as she is a little calmer when she has that, so it have a good supply of those in my ever growing coat pocket.
We did try food to try and see if it helped which it did but I believe her fear is so strong, it only helps for a little while and then there is no effect. She is back to her Woofy self. I do agree that COL meet-up could help - but as you said elaine.e I would have to take things slowly and obvious more ‘excited pooches’ may stress her out more.
It is so hard, and is a constant patrol of who is about, keeping a check to make sure the are no dogs too close.
I really want to help her, and I have scanned my area for doggie behaviourists, and I don’t care how much it costs. Bluebell, I am going to ask Jessie's ‘Dad’ if we can have a little walk along in the mornings together, as Jessie is older and himself, so I guess the slower and calmer the better. Lovely, I agree, taking little steps will help, and I am more than willing to do that. If anyone from my area does happen to read this post, and would be willing to maybe let us join them for a meet, even for 5-10 minutes, I am sure it will help Lily and me - I think starting this post has counselled me in a way :lol2:
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Just an idea, it may be crazy, but you could try contacting your local PAT (pets as therapy) group as in my experience the guys with the dogs that visit people like to help out in any way they can. You could explain that you want to gradually introduce lily to a very calm dog, as the PAT dogs need to be very well behaved. You never know, they may be able to put you in touch with someone?
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Hi there,
What a horrible thing to happen to
you and Lily :luv:
I just wanted to say that if you are
looking for behaviourists you may be
advised to ask for a recommendation
on here or look at Apdt for someone
as there are a few "organisations"
whose methods are a bit questionable.
Here's a linky ;www.apdt.co.uk/
steffxxx
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My Ellie is dog aggressive but only when she is on a lead, so it is worth bearing in mind that dogs can be worse if they are on a lead (ie they can't escape). Ellie isn't interested in other dogs but if they approach her when she is on a lead she will lunge for them, she barks continuously if they are too close. By contrast when she's off lead she is so much better, because she isn't interested in other dogs she tends to move away from them, however if they get too close to say her ball (most prized possession) she will go for them and it doesn't matter what size of dog.
She can be quite intimidating to other dogs and it took over a year to be able to train and run her successfully in flyball competitions. Now when we're at competitions we have to stand slightly apart for others and she seems fine when just walking on lead with others - ie, you need to keep moving as soon as you stop you can expect an outburst. I have yet to pinpoint why she reacts in the way that she does, but it does seem to be partly possessiveness over me I think and also her lead :dunno: though she doesn't seem to show any aggressiveness to dogs in her family just dogs she doesn't know.
Intially when she started competing she would aggressively chase after the dog that she would run into, but we've worked on that in training and discovered a dog running towards her at full pelt was scaring her so we started to feed her in from the side so that she couldn't see the other dog coming - gradually moving her to face the dogs head on, now she runs full on into other dogs without batting an eyelid, but I've only started doing that in the last month - she's realised that the other dogs don't want to hurt her, they're not interested in her.
I think what I'm trying to say is that it can take a long time, involve lots of repetition in calm and controlled environments and watching for triggers (which are often not easy to see). We still can't stand close to other dogs, but have noticed that her barking is different, not so aggressive but just general barking. As she is a rescue I don't know her background, but she has changed a lot in 2 years, for the better I think, its just taken a bit of time.
ETA: as Lilly's attack happened when she was on lead you may find that she will be worse when she is on lead.
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I’ll give anything a try, and thanks again for your help and suggestions.
The reason I keep her on her lead is that if she is 'off-lead' and anything comes near I am scared of her attacking or biting the other dog, which I would feel so bad about. She really does go for them - awful. However, I do understand what you are saying. Thanks for your help :lol2:
I find most people are very understanding and if I say that my dog does not like other dogs, they do call their own dogs back quickly or put them on their lead. There are a few, however, who ignore me and it ends up Lily Barking and barking, or screaming, or lunging at them >:D and they just laugh - it really annoy’s me.
Oh to be able to a magic wand but I know that is not possible. If only.....
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I've had my thinking cap back on Ziggy9269 & just thought it would be worth mentioning this....
When Nina was younger (up until at least 3.5 yrs old) she would sometimes rush up to other dogs whilst barking at them. When she 1st started doing this it wasn't too long after her 1st attack (nowhere near as serious as Lily's). I would try to distract her with a ball or a treat but occasionally i just couldn't get through to her. The reason she did this was because she was scared, which logically doesn't make sense but some dogs do react this way. Anyway she did grow out of this behaviour. I wanted you to know that to give you some hope with Lily, that she may stop doing this in the future. :D As i said in my previous post though, she still does bark at other dogs/some people but very rarely if she is offlead.
Which has made me think (as Lily & Nina sound similar) that perhaps try Lily either on a long line or let her off lead as much as poss. You can buy 10M long line's. :shades: Which also means you can safely practise recall too. ;)
Just one other thing, as i mentioned Nina has GPRA & i'm not suggesting that Lily has anything wrong with her eye sight but it is probably worth getting her vision checked out too. :-\
Does or has Lily ever hurt another dog? I would guess not if she is anything like Nina. It does sound that Lily is just giving a 'go away' signal to other dogs. :-\
I just really wish that irresponsible dog owners stop to think about how much long term damage a dog can do another :'( It can cause so much heartache :'(
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You beat me to it Wendy, I was thinking that a long line woud be a good idea :003:
She would still be able to communicate effectively, but you will still have control if she decides to take things a step further :D
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Thanks for that..... I do have a lunge rein/line which I use on my horse :lol:. It has a clip attachment on it so I guess this may be suitable yes? I am willing to give anything a try so I’ll use that tomorrow. She hasn’t hurt another dog and I do think that she is saying “go away” but I just scared that she’ll hurt another, just through being scared and not out nastiness.
Lily has her check up a few months ago, and I did ask the vet to check her eyes, ears, etc and they are perfect, so unlike Nina, she has great eyesight (especially for the visiting cat who torments her every morning in the back garden :lol2:)
It is good to hear that it will get better - but of course it is going to take time and patience :D I have had 2 other cockers before Lily and nothing like what happened to Lily ever happened to them. It is so sad that I am left with the problem and Lily is left with her fear, whilst that scumbag will have totally forgotten about the whole incident, and his dog will very likely have done the same again. I don’t blame the dog at all - it's irresponsible dog owners, who think they are tough having bigger dogs, but do not spend time training with them.
It makes me sooooo angry >:D
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Ive just caught up with this , so sorry to hear what happened to lily, you must have been so traumatised and of course poor little baby too.
I would gladly meet you with Riley one day. Though he is very excitable so dont know if it would be a good idea.
He does love to just run round and round with another doggy though.
He is very gentle and only wants to play. Even if it was just for a 5 minute meet I would gladly come to meet you.
I live literally right on the coast ? are you nearby? I have seen a man out with a blue roan down our way and also king george road area, wonder if any are lily?
Just let me know I could bring Riley to the bents park where I let him off to play (also if they are no other dogs )
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Hi there Jane57.
That is so kind of you - thank you.
I live close to Harton Village and I tend to take Lily to Seaburn Beach. I do sometimes walk her around Harton, if I am working lates, as it is obviously too dark to go down to the beach then. I would be very willing to give it a try, as you say even 5 minutes to see how she reacts. She does bark constantly though - but just to start the process of getting her over her fear, would help.
Let me know when you could make it - and I’ll pop down. :) I assume you’ll know Minchella’s at the sea front :D There is no rush though, so you let me know when and I’ll come down. I can only but try.
I think I am still traumatised over the whole thing to be honest.... I wish she wasn’t like this but I can understand her feelings completely
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Hi there Jane57.
That is so kind of you - thank you.
I live close to Harton Village and I tend to take Lily to Seaburn Beach. I do sometimes walk her around Harton, if I am working lates, as it is obviously too dark to go down to the beach then. I would be very willing to give it a try, as you say even 5 minutes to see how she reacts. She does bark constantly though - but just to start the process of getting her over her fear, would help.
Let me know when you could make it - and I’ll pop down. :) I assume you’ll know Minchella’s at the sea front :D There is no rush though, so you let me know when and I’ll come down. I can only but try.
I think I am still traumatised over the whole thing to be honest.... I wish she wasn’t like this but I can understand her feelings completely
Poor you and Poor Lily,
I can be out most mornings, I do know minchellas, we often sit out there even with Riley when he "behaves"
If one day next week you wanted to pop down as I dont often have car during week.
We could just meet for 5-10 mins to see how lily goes, I understand how hard this must be for both of you.
Riley is quite excitable though, but very very gentle.
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Great!!
Just let me know when and I’ll pop down.... much appreciated. It’s worth a try isn’t it? Eve a few minutes. I used to be able to sit outside with Lily when she was a baby until the attack and after that I can’t. She just barks and barks, and I know I wouldn’t want to be sat enjoying a tea/coffee or an ice-cream with a barking dog next to me..
Thank you :lol2:
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Just another idea which might help. Have you heard of Tellington touch? It is various stroking methods which can calm a dog. There may be a practitioner near you or there is a book which makes the techniques easy to understand (Getting in Ttouch with your Dog). It wouldn't be a cure but might just be another tool to help :)
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this is a great thread - I'll wait for the update on how you and Lily get on - what a fantastic site COL is with the generosity of people on here, it really has put a smile on my face this evening :D
Hope it goes well - and if not the first time, maybe the second time will be better x
I am feeling a bit guilty about mentioning Sal's dog - he's a rescue too and has never attacked anything before Pearl - she spends every Saturday with a trainer / behaviourist trying to help him, he is lovely otherwise - but she has a real issue over trust with him now :'(
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Just another idea which might help. Have you heard of Tellington touch? It is various stroking methods which can calm a dog. There may be a practitioner near you or there is a book which makes the techniques easy to understand (Getting in Ttouch with your Dog). It wouldn't be a cure but might just be another tool to help :)
Another great idea :shades:
I learned how to do T Touch with a practioner....Nina loves it & yes i do think it helps calm her :luv:
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Thanks for that Ruby, I’ll look into that too. Never heard of that before, but it obviously produces great results...I feel so much better after everyone’s help and lovely comments. Pearly, I completely agree, I think COL is great as you feel supported and not alone, in whatever owning a cocker brings up :lol2:
I sometimes spend hours reading all the threads and looking at the lovely pictures. Some of the stories are sad but most really make me laugh and after a rotten day at work, it really chills me out :lol2:
I will keep you all up-to-date on how Lily and I get on..... I am certain things will improve but it’ going to take time... maybe I will end up posting a picture of her sitting next to another dog one day :lol2:
Fingers crossed.
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I'm so sorry to hear about your poor little girl. I've no experience or real advice to offer but just wanted to send a :bigarmhug: to you both. I totally agree with others who suggested a one on one with a behaviourist who is experienced with this sort of problem. If you can find one who has a totally trustworthy "stooge" dog who has perhaps helped with this kind of thing before then so much the better. Someone who is qualified and has experience will know exactly how, when and where is the best way to introduce Lily to another dog rather than risk trying by yourself. You may find that as you are naturally very anxious when you see another dog, she is picking up some of your anxiety too. A behaviourist may have ways to help with your anxiety and therefore help you pass a calm, relaxed atmosphere over to Lily? Just me musing out loud.
T touch is fabulous. Definately something to try. It has helped no end with Archie. I also use a pet remedy herbal plug-in diffuser in the house to calm him. It works really well. I don't think they do a collar version for out and about but I think Adaptil do a collar?
Good luck to you and Lily. We look forward to seeing the picture of her with her new best friend one day. :luv:
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This is the book;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Getting-Touch-Your-Dog-Performance/dp/1872119417/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354218917&sr=8-1
Like Ninasmum I did a course on Ttocuh. It was only half a day but has helped me to help my Ruby, who is car phobic. As I said, it isn't a cure but is another thing which can help.
Good luck :)
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Thanks Ruby and Archie.
That’s great advice and I’ll be straight onto Amazon tonight.
I know I do get quite anxious when out with ‘Lil and a bigger dog lumbers over, my heart starts to race in the worry that a) it might attack and b) she’ll be frightened..... I completely agree that any animal can pick up on our fears. My horse Fly, knows when I am upset or anxious, and I do love him to bits but the little so-and-so can act up when he knows I am not 100% :lol2:
I know after Lily was attacked I started to pick her up whenever a big dog came running over, so maybe my behaviour has not helped either. I thought I was protecting Lily and I think I have made the problem worse. I really hope I can help her.
It’s funny that you mention the plug-in - I was thinking about that possibility earlier today.
I’ll do anything for my little girlie :luv:
Thanks for all the support and hugs too - I’ll pass them onto Lily (who is currently lying across my feet and I’m thinking "I really need to make a cup of tea but don't want to disturb her, as she look so comfy" - I’m too soft :005:)
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Hi my cocker Hollie is two and has been attacked three times in the past when she was a pup . Hollie became really bad out on her walks she would constantly bark at people I dare not stop and talk but my main concern was with other dogs . If she saw a dog she would run over and chase them away and constantly be barking really aggressively. I became so worried as I thought she might attack the dog also will not let anybody outside talk to her or stroke her . At home she is the most loving dog you could ask for brilliant with my granddaughter who I have been looking after since she was a baby now 20 months old with the family the same, very loving. I was going to re home her as I thought I was making her worse , I was recommended to get her a behaviourist. I got intouch with Bark Busters ( big mistake ) he made her worse as I was told not to let her on my lap anymore , spray water at her if she pulled while out on lead walk , Hollie became even more nervous. Then one day in floods of tears as Hollie had been really bad on our walk that day ,on the Internet was again trying to find ways I could help her. I came across www.dogcommunication.co.uk two ladies called Penelope and Laura the best thing that could have ever happened to me . I sent an email explaining about Hollie also phoned them.I had to have Hollie checked out at the vets also fill out a long questionnaire regarding Hollie then she had her assessment . Well what can I say they are brilliant Laura explained to me that Hollie is very nervous and anxious so when she chases and barks at other dogs its her only way to get in first and to tell them to stay away from her and no way is Hollie aggressive . Hollie now goes to the shy guys group which is all done outside either on walks in a field with other shy dogs . They have different classes depending on your dog problems. Sorry I have gone on but I am so pleased with Hollie today while Hollie and I were out on our walk together we came across two small dogs and I did not have time to walk the other way but to my surprise Hollie ran over to them had a sniff then run off to play with them. I had tears in my eyes as Hollie would not do that in the past . I still have a long way to go and it won't happen over night but on the right road now . I just thought I had to try and explain as I do understand how you feel and hope you are able to find somebody as good as I have for Hollie. Sorry for posting twice, the first was not meant to go. Brenda
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That is soo lovely for you and Hollie Brenda. Everything you have described is exactly what Lily is like. I can completely understand you having tears in your eyes, and to read that Hollie has made progress... that’s great news. A few weeks ago Lily was really bad when out for her walk - you when you think I wish I hadn’t gone out with her - and I cried when we got back in the car. The thing is, she sat next to me with her sad eyes as if to say “I am sorry mummy but I was so scared” and wiggled her little tail at me and held her paw up to me. :016:She is such a sweetheart - I love her to bits.
My cousin’s fiancee, took her puppy - a little miniature dashund Arthur - to a puppy class, and never went back after the first session. The so-called professional sprayed the pups with water and encouraged people to hold their muzzles if they mouthed or barked at each other. I was disgusted when she told me, I can’t believe this goes on, and people who don’t know otherwise think this is the way to train young pups. >:D
Thanks Brenda for your really encouraging story :lol2:
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Brenda, I am welling up just reading your story. Well done you and Hollie. It just shows that with the right help, the seemingly impossible is possible. :banana: :banana: :clapping: :clapping:
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Brenda, I am welling up just reading your story. Well done you and Hollie. It just shows that with the right help, the seemingly impossible is possible. :banana: :banana: :clapping: :clapping:
Me too :D
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I keep thinking about you and lily, maybe cos me and my terrier spud got attacked by a larger dog once but it was me that got injured when i intervened. I wondered what lily is like on her own patch like in her garden with other dogs? Also what she's like if walked by someone else like is she protecting you? Lastly just wondered if she would be more comfortable at first sniffing a dog through a barrier like a fence? Dunno just trying to come up with suggestions!
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Hi Lovely.
She is exactly the same in her own garden. Growing, barking and just ‘sticks’ herself to me.... it’s so sad isn’t it when this happens. I think its a bit of being scared herself and trying to protect me as the dog was attacking me too.
Yes, perhaps she would be more happy sniffing through a fence at first.... So, so hard >:(
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Hi Lovely.
She is exactly the same in her own garden. Growing, barking and just ‘sticks’ herself to me.... it’s so sad isn’t it when this happens. I think its a bit of being scared herself and trying to protect me as the dog was attacking me too.
Yes, perhaps she would be more happy sniffing through a fence at first.... So, so hard >:(
Hi ziggy, I had riley down at the bents park today, he was the only dog in there, maybe we could meet down there soon? even for just a few mins, , We could "accidently" meet lol
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I'm sure you'll get there in the end, it's obvious how much you love lily and she obviously loves you! I know how you feel about getting tense, i still tense up if a big male black lab approaches, even though i try not to and i used to keep labs! Spud has recovered well though x
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That would be great Jane57...just PM me and you want to meet and we can :lol: - we went for our morning walk to the beach (FREEZING- I ended up with a nose like Rudolph) and there was only 2 other dogs there. Lily was such more relaxed and then obviously more people arrived with their pooches and you can see she’s scanning the area, tensing up .... an older, absolutely lovely Lab toddled over to us and she wasn’t too bad... she ‘wuffed’ a little bit but it was lovely to her not panicking as usual :lol2:
I know it’s speed, anything fast she feels threatened by.
Thanks Lovely - I think we will. I feel so much happier now. It has been stressing me out so much, and talking about it has helped a great deal too... glad Spud has done so well - LOVE the name by the way ;)
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In this month's Many Tears Rescue newsletter, there is a story about a collie called Herbie who was attacked by another dog whilst on a walk. This destroyed his confidence and the once happy go lucky, confident happy dog, was reduced to a nervous wreck who was scared of other dogs. His owner tried everything but after 9 months had got nowhere. Sylvia at Many Tears suggested accupuncture and after a few treatments Herbie is back to his normal happy self.
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That sounds amazing countrygirl...I’d certainly give it try.... I will do anything for little girl
Thank you :003:
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I have to admit that I haven't read through all the replies so don't know if these have already been suggested. From my experience of Millie being dog reactive on lead and hyper vigilant with regard to hunting and chasing I have found this book had some helpful tips http://controlunleashed.net/book.html
Also from a calming supplement I've found Zylkene quite affective http://www.zylkene.co.uk/
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Thank you Sarah.H....... much appreciated :lol2:
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Great suggestions Sarah :)