Castration

[PennyB]

please don't take offence janice, he does sound like a completely normal over-exuberant working cocker puppy.  He is treating you as another littermate (you've seen how rough puppies play with each other) and this takes time to teach him not to mouth or bite humans. I think it's so important to socialise dylan now with children - and the suggestions given by rachel are great.


you could always have him on a houselead when children are around to monitor his behaviour.

also, what do you feed him?  some foods contribute to more 'hyper' behaviour and it can help to change foods.

Have you got a copy of 'the Perfect Puppy' by Gwen Baillie - it is a really good book to read - sign up for puppy classes too, the socialisation will do dylan good, and will ease your mind about dylan's behaviour (there's always one pup in the class that appears more badly behaved than yours )


I know you feel his behaviour is aggressive and that we are underestimating him, but we do understand.  I think to set your mind at ease you should contact a good behaviourist or trainer in your area.

am also sceptical about your vet - seems very odd neutering a puppy so young for marking/weeing in the house....very odd....

also if you read back through the posts on here you'll find many who were in a similar position struggling with a puppy and then coming through it the other end, then despairing at their adolescent antics and again coming through it, and then either wondering what all the fuss was about or never wanting a pup again but glad they have the adult dog. We have been there honest and don't need video etc. as I have had similar experiences so not trying to belittle your problem but saying it does get better as most of us survived.

It would be worth starting training classes if you can

[Janice-Dylan]

Yes, we have done and are making some headway, all is not lost! Was just looking for opinions

[nohopeleft]

hi,
i`d like to addy my experience recently,our cocker is now just over 4 months,but about 6 weeks ago he went through a stage were for no reason he would get himself into his own little world and lung at whoever was nearby and sink his razor sharp teeth into the closest part of the body,he was aggressive in his behaviour to the degree that i was concerned for my children.this normal lasted about 20 minutes & that was that until the next day,but he had put the doubt in our mind about when he going to lash out next.

this went on for a few days and to be honest i lost all trust in the dog.

i posted on this forum and got some good advice,they way we cured him was doing the following.

when he was starting with his aggressive behaviour etc,i shouted at him NO & turned away from him & left the room ( the whole family left if they were also in the room)

sadly one time he got me in the face when i was sorting his cage out & rightly or wrongly i did smack him on the nose,he got a fright & sat in the corner of the room.

when we returned to the room a short while later he was a good as gold,we did this for a few days and eventually we just needed to say no or distract him with a toy.

but now he`s fine,he does still like to chew your hand etc,but i feel 100% safer


hope this helps,but brambles still getting his nuts off at 6 months regardless

[Janice-Dylan]

Thanks for that, it's just sometimes when people continually tell you that you don't have an aggression problem with your dog and that their behaviour is normal puppy behaviour it can be very frustrating. I've known a few puppies in my time and have never seen behaviour like this. I am coping okay with it, I understand that it will pass, but I also understand that if I don't put in the work with the training, it won't get any better. Quite a few people have told me to give him a good smack, I have resisted this but like you, once, when I was at the kitchen sink , he came running up behind me out of the blue and sunk his teeth very deep into my calf. I didn't have time to think and swiped him off me, it was bloody sore and an automatic reaction to the shock. I regretted it, but it did take him a couple of days to resume the behaviour, it makes you wonder. Anyway, I don't want a puppy who cowers when I go near him. I was only asking about the castration think, if worst case scenario, he gets older and no amount of training will cure him, I want to be prepared for what i will have to do then because getting rid of him is not an option. I live in fear that he will maim a child as, at the moment, he cannot be trusted around anyone without a lead on. I've been to the training classes and Dylan was the only one snarling,biting and jumping up at the lead! Can't blame for being at tad worried.

[Helen]

Thanks for that, it's just sometimes when people continually tell you that you don't have an aggression problem with your dog and that their behaviour is normal puppy behaviour it can be very frustrating. I've known a few puppies in my time and have never seen behaviour like this. I am coping okay with it, I understand that it will pass, but I also understand that if I don't put in the work with the training, it won't get any better. Quite a few people have told me to give him a good smack, I have resisted this but like you, once, when I was at the kitchen sink , he came running up behind me out of the blue and sunk his teeth very deep into my calf. I didn't have time to think and swiped him off me, it was bloody sore and an automatic reaction to the shock. I regretted it, but it did take him a couple of days to resume the behaviour, it makes you wonder. Anyway, I don't want a puppy who cowers when I go near him. I was only asking about the castration think, if worst case scenario, he gets older and no amount of training will cure him, I want to be prepared for what i will have to do then because getting rid of him is not an option. I live in fear that he will maim a child as, at the moment, he cannot be trusted around anyone without a lead on. I've been to the training classes and Dylan was the only one snarling,biting and jumping up at the lead! Can't blame for being at tad worried.

i really think you should call a qualified behaviourist sooner rather than later...from all your posts it really seems that you're worried, stressed and fearful about his behaviour - any advice we seem to offer seems to be dismissed as us not taking dylan's 'aggression' seriously, and us not understanding aggression in pups.  Your frustration and stress will also be clearly evident to dylan, and is likely to exacerbate his stressed out behaviour. 

i don't agree with anyone smacking their dogs, and I'm not sure after reading this in what form your training will take.  If you think that your 'swiping' him off your leg sorted out his behaviour for a couple of days i really beg to differ....he was probably avoiding you out of fear.

i apologise if this sounds sharp, but it looks to me as if you're getting yourself into a vicious circle, and that no-one, least of all your pup, will benefit in the long run

[Cob-Web]

Thanks for that, it's just sometimes when people continually tell you that you don't have an aggression problem with your dog and that their behaviour is normal puppy behaviour it can be very frustrating. I've known a few puppies in my time and have never seen behaviour like this. I am coping okay with it, I understand that it will pass, but I also understand that if I don't put in the work with the training, it won't get any better. Quite a few people have told me to give him a good smack, I have resisted this but like you, once, when I was at the kitchen sink , he came running up behind me out of the blue and sunk his teeth very deep into my calf. I didn't have time to think and swiped him off me, it was bloody sore and an automatic reaction to the shock. I regretted it, but it did take him a couple of days to resume the behaviour, it makes you wonder. Anyway, I don't want a puppy who cowers when I go near him. I was only asking about the castration think, if worst case scenario, he gets older and no amount of training will cure him, I want to be prepared for what i will have to do then because getting rid of him is not an option. I live in fear that he will maim a child as, at the moment, he cannot be trusted around anyone without a lead on. I've been to the training classes and Dylan was the only one snarling,biting and jumping up at the lead! Can't blame for being at tad worried.

   I don't like puppies   

I didn't enjoy Molo's puppy stage really, and unless my circumstances drastically change, I will not have another pup again (famous last words  )

What I did to survive it was to ensure that I gave him every possible chance of success to be good - and remove as many possibilities to fail as I possibly could.   

For instance, you say that Dylan sank his teeth into your calf when you had your back to him while standing at the sink. He didn't bite you because he was p**sed off with you; he bit you because he wanted to play and interact with you (you are the best thing in his life, after all), and the only way he knows how to engage in play is to bite  Even adult dogs do this when they are playing with each other - one will run in and grab and ear, or leg, and then dive away again as a way of encouraging the other dog to join in.  My suggestion (from the School of Puppy Survival) is for you to do the dishes after he has had a play and pee; shut him in his crate for half an hour or so - then he won't be faced with the temptation to engage you in play  

I know you have reservations about the crate, so maybe you could consider a puppy-play-pen instead - but if it prevents him from learning bad behaviour, and protects your ankles when you cannot have your eyes on him, then it is good for both of you

If you give a puppy opportunities to fail, it will become more difficult for you to teach him to succeed - each time he does something that you consider unacceptable, he is rewarded by the success of his action, so the behaviour is reinforced. This cycle can easily be avoided by removing as many opportunities for him to fail as possible - and rewarding him for the behaviour you do want to see    You said "he can't be trusted" without a lead on - but a houseline is not a negative thing; it is a standard piece of training equipment in many homes, and not something to be avoided. Don't make it more difficult for you and him by considering the use of training aids as a failure, or only to be used as a last resort Without training aids such as a clicker, long line, houseline etc, I'd be in a loony asylum 

A dog is born to be a dog - and has to be taught how to behave in a pet home, and taught what behaviour is acceptable and what is not........to expect a 4 month old puppy to know the rules, and to label him aggressive because he doesn't, is a huge amount of pressure to put on yourself, and the puppy

[Penel]

Another one here I'm afraid, to confirm this is totally normal puppy behaviour.  I take it you only have one dog.  People with one dog "suffer" much more than those of us with multi dog households - my first cocker was just like yours is, and I can remember thinking is this ever going to stop - she bit my uncle during a Christmas visit - that went down like a lead balloon I can tell you !!!!
However - my subsequent puppy learnt from her (she was an adult by then), and then the others learnt from Tilly..... it's much easier when another dog tells them not to bite - unfortunately we don't have the same communication skills !!!!!
If you lived in Surrey I'd invite you and your puppy round for some "socialising" - so you can see how normal it is !!!!!!  how many puppies have you had out of interest ?  do you have any children yourself ?
Castration doesn't make puppies grow up by the way, which is what you are waiting for - your pup to grow up...

[CraftySam]

I've known a few puppies in my time and have never seen behaviour like this.

Barney, who's my first cocker, threw up far more things that I worried about than both my other two pups put together! I'm sure I've seen written on here that people who have had alot of experience with dogs and puppies have been challenged when they got a cocker pup.
I'm sure not all cocker pups have been challenging, but I've read about a fair few on here who have. So you are not alone.

but I also understand that if I don't put in the work with the training, it won't get any better.

Too true! Training a pup is hard work. It needs to start from the day you bring them home, and then every day. This is essential and part and parcel of being a puppy owner.

Quite a few people have told me to give him a good smack, I have resisted this but like you, once, when I was at the kitchen sink , he came running up behind me out of the blue and sunk his teeth very deep into my calf. I didn't have time to think and swiped him off me, it was bloody sore and an automatic reaction to the shock. I regretted it, but it did take him a couple of days to resume the behaviour, it makes you wonder. Anyway, I don't want a puppy who cowers when I go near him.

Smacking is a big no-no. No matter how frustrated and angry you might feel. I'm sure we've all had time when we've been so frustrated and have really had to take some deep breaths. Please remember it doesn't take much of that treatment for your dog to become fearful of you.  

I was only asking about the castration think, if worst case scenario, he gets older and no amount of training will cure him, I want to be prepared for what i will have to do then because getting rid of him is not an option. I live in fear that he will maim a child as, at the moment, he cannot be trusted around anyone without a lead on. I've been to the training classes and Dylan was the only one snarling,biting and jumping up at the lead! Can't blame for being at tad worried.

IMO I do think his behaviour is part and parcel of puppyhood. All puppies differ, so may be calm pups and others can bounce of the wall 24/7 (I've had one of each)
Training is the key here, be consistent with it. Inconsistency will make things worse. Stick with your training classes, its all new to Dylan so give him time to settle in to them. If you feel that he can't be trusted around people then take appropriate precautions.

I don't think that castration would resolve this problem.   Both my boys were castrated around 6/7 months. Barney did have a phase of snapping at dogs which lasted a couple of weeks. It may have started following an incident where he had become frightened out on a walk when he was startled by a man walking his dogs (who were on lead) OH didn't tell me about this until weeks after.     But he did say his snapping started just after that.
I would normally neuter my dogs as a matter of course, but I couldn't make my mind up with Barney because of the coat change that would follow. In the end I decided to castrate him. He hasn't snapped at any dog since, but we'll never know if thats because he was castrated or not.

I do understand why you a a tad worried. as I said before I sent many panic email to my dog trainer friend about Barney. Every single time the reply was "this is normal puppy behaviour" together with advice on how to deal with it.
Do training with him every day and take him to training classes, and stick with it......it will get better.  

[pitoreskni]

Milo is 7 months and is getting neutered today (dropped him off at the vets this morning).
I can't say whether or not it would help with any behavioural problems and I certainly don't expect it to either. Milo also does the full on growling and barking while jumping up and biting thing. At first I did think he was being agressive but then I noticed that his tail was wagging the whole time and that he usually will only do it after he's not long woke up and is in full on play mode. A time out (or 4  ) usually puts a stop to it.