Burns - jaundice/liver inflamation?

[darby]

My 7 year old cocker, Darby, was not feeling well last week - he was sluggish, not eating food and constipated. I toke him to the vet and the only problem he found was his anal glands were full. The next day I was shocked to find Darby had developed jaundice. The vet tested his bloods and found he had a liver inflamation. He gave me meds and I am due to go back for a checkup next Monday. Darby may need to have a biopsy. I don't know what has caused this. I am wondering if its diet related?

I started Darby on Burns 9 months ago. At the time he was overweight at 14kg. So I set his food to match his target weight of 13kg. Therefore 10g/kg - Darby got 130g per day. After about 6 months his weight dropped to 11.5kg but I still kept him on 130g.

I rang Burns helpline and they suggested that maybe (1) Darby wasn't getting enough exercise and (2) he was been overfed. That these reasons could cause problems with the liver and anal glands. They suggested I drop his food down to 100g per day. I told the nutritionist that Darby was very slim. She told me about her springer spaniel who gets 4 hours exercise a day, weighs 12kg and only gets 75g of Burns per day! (And gets no snacks.)

This doesn't seem right. A 100g for a cocker? I am starting to wonder if Burns is the right food for Darby. What do you think? Has anybody else out there have problems with Burns? How much do you feed? Thanks Paul.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Hi Paul,

I'm really sorry to hear about Darby, hope the vets can sort him out.

It's not really related but none of my dogs have done well on Burns.. They've all lost too much weight and and too much condition ending up with dull scurfy coats and just look malnourished tbh. I believe in keeping dogs on the lighter side, but I think sometimes people can get a bit carried away with that philosophy.

I would forget talking to Burns about your Darby's problem as no food manufacturer is going to entertain the possibility that their food may have caused a medical problem unless there is hard evidence to support that. It could be worth changing his diet to see if it helps - I have used Chappie in the past and a lot of vets like it as it's simple easily digested protein but definitely talk to your vet first and see what they suggest.

Really hope he starts to feel better soon and it's nothing too serious

[elaine.e]

Really sorry to hear about Darby. I hope the meds kick in soon and that he's a lot better by the time you take him back for his checkup next Monday.

I've had no problems with Burns and have fed my 6 year old Cocker on it for about 18 months now. I tried him on it because on both James Wellbeloved and Arden Grange he used to have slightly runny poos and every few days or so would throw up some yellow bile during the night. That all stopped when I changed him to Burns, plus his skin and coat improved. I also have a 13 month old Cocker who has been on Burns Mini Bites, then Burns, and has a lovely coat and skin.

I recently changed to half Burns and half raw food, but that's only because I used to be a raw food feeder many years ago when I first had Cockers and before so many complete foods were available. I wanted to try dogs on it again and it's proved very successful, but they still get their Burns in the morning.

I'm certainly no expert, but I don't think that feeding a kibble that is generally regarded as one of the better quality ones should cause liver inflammation. Talk to your vet about it and see what he suggests. Has he suggested a temporary change while Darby is unwell, or is he happy for you to continue normal feeding for now?

[Helen]

I'm not a fan of burns either (or should I say my dog isn't a fan!) and agree with Hannah and I would put money on your vet suggesting and selling you Hills Science diet as the best possible (expensive) food alternative for Darby at his check up...

I don't think it's the food TBH  but from what you've said the Burns help line sounds horrendous!  My 12.9kg cocker would perish on 75 gms of food a day  he has 100gms Healthy Paws kibble in the morning and a raw meal at night (and a few treats in between) and is definitely not overweight.

Hope Darby is ok 

[Toni-UK]

I have fed Ruby Burns since she was a pup,and she is now 2 and a half.

She has around 100-120 gms per day,a few treats plus dried tripe and she is lovely and slim.

As some people have said some dogs thrive on it,others don't so it's down to the individual dog really.

I'm no vet  but i cant believe a good quality kibble would cause these problems,and it is a shame the Burns advisor seemed a bit blinkered in her advice really,and IMHO there is a lot worse you could be feeding your dog 

Hope Darby recovers soon.

[darby]

Hi folks, thanks for your support and comments.

Well today I have thought long and hard about whether to stick with Burns or not. I know Burns has quality ingredients but there is something about the food I am not sure about. AFAIK, John Burns suggested to his customers (when he was a practising vet) if their dog had a poor coat or diarrhoea, etc to get off the commercial food they were on and cook the dog boiled chicken & rice. This was how Burns food started. What I am wondering about is: chicken (Burns has 20%) and rice (Burns has 60% rice) is good for your dog now and again if the dog is unwell but not all the time. Its a bit like going on a porridge diet or the Atkins diet - works for a while but never lasts and is defintely not good for your health in the long run.

Darby's liver problem might not be related to his diet but his anal glands are. Incidentally my Mum's dog got sick last week aswell - he is on Burns and he had problems with his anal glands too. (And she decided to change to a new food.)

I am based in Ireland and I bought a bag of Red Mills Leader today (Irish dog food). So I am going to change my 3 cockers over to that and see how we go.
My opinion of holistic foods (Burns, Land Of Holistic, etc.) has changed. When I was checking out alternative foods last night alot of the BIG names - Royal Canin, Hills, JWB, Arden Grange - all had similar ingredients. Ingredients that the holistic foods say a big NO too - like maize, beet plup, poultry fat, etc. I wonder who is right? I can't even rely on my local vet clinic for advice! One of the vets suggested Pedigree before! It's confusing to say the least.

Anyways thanks again for the comments. Hopefully Darby will get better soon. I'll keep you posted. Thanks Paul - and Darby, Clara and Kelly (my 3 cockers).

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Good luck to both of you

It's extremely hard finding a food to suit some dogs and pretty scary... I've had a nightmare finding a 'quality' food that suits my Weim without her loosing condition or having an allergic reaction - which is why we ended up on Chappie for a long time. We've had some success more recently with JWB fish variety whereas she also had a massive allergic reaction to their Lamb and Rice variety.. However, she's put on 2 Kilos with reduced quantities so I need to address that now 

I really hope you find a food that you are happy with and Darby starts to recover, please keep us posted.

[JeffandAnnie]

It is a minefield, especially as it seems no one feed suits all dogs. I feed Burns and have done for many years - my two collies lived well past their life expectancy for the breed without a day's sickness (until they died of course, which with both dogs was due to their back legs going, not illness as such). The cockers do really well in it too. I do supplement a bit though; a few biscuits a day, the odd treat and meal left overs etc; so they aren't exclusively on Burns. I like that it keeps them slim, fit and healthy - I could do with going on it myself 

[Danni and Freya]

It is a minefield, especially as it seems no one feed suits all dogs. I feed Burns and have done for many years - my two collies lived well past their life expectancy for the breed without a day's sickness (until they died of course, which with both dogs was due to their back legs going, not illness as such). The cockers do really well in it too. I do supplement a bit though; a few biscuits a day, the odd treat and meal left overs etc; so they aren't exclusively on Burns. I like that it keeps them slim, fit and healthy - I could do with going on it myself 

Exactly the same here. They are lean on burns so I can afford not to worry about training treats, biscuits etc, because they never ever gain excess weight. Of course everyone has thier opinions based on what suits thier dogs so there isn't a right or wrong answer

[Jessie_Pup]

Hi there.    Jessie also had a problem with Burns. I consulted their helpline. I was also told not to feed her any more than 100grams and add potato, tuna or the tinned food, which I tried no difference.   The person on the helpline also told the same story about her dog.

Jessie continued to lose weight and I was getting very concerned. The nurse at my vet clinic told me she was to skinny and if she was ill she had no reserves to help fight it. She was veryskinny as pup on the mini-bites.

It was then I started to look for another dog food and found Barking Heads She has been on the food for over a year has gained her weight which is now stable, she now weighs 9.5kgs, she had dropped in weight to under 8kgs and looked so thin. Her coat is in lovely condition.  Dylan is now on the senior food he is 9.

I have been very pleased with it. 

[Nicola]

I'm not a fan of burns either (or should I say my dog isn't a fan!) and agree with Hannah and I would put money on your vet suggesting and selling you Hills Science diet as the best possible (expensive) food alternative for Darby at his check up...

I don't think it's the food TBH   but from what you've said the Burns help line sounds horrendous!  My 12.9kg cocker would perish on 75 gms of food a day   he has 100gms Healthy Paws kibble in the morning and a raw meal at night (and a few treats in between) and is definitely not overweight.

Hope Darby is ok  

I agree with this and with what Hannah has said. Although I don't think it's the food causing Darby's liver problems Burns doesn't suit my dogs either, I tried them on it a few years ago and the condition fell off them. They were ravenous and they looked awful, I thought they were ill until I realised it was the food. As soon as I changed them back to Arden Grange they were fine, although I now feed either Healthy Paws or Barking Heads kibble. Caoimhe weighs about 11-12kg, she does a lot of training so she's very lean and muscular but she would starve on just 75g a day of any food let alone Burns  

I really hope Darby is ok and that there's nothing seriously wrong with him

[Jessie_Pup]

Mine too would be ravenous on 75grams a day.   They always seemed hungry on the Burns but are now more content on the Barking Heads.  Dylan was a poo eater from about 6months old and Burns helpline suggested I reduce his food to 90grams a day and nothing else , so what happended when he was out he was looking for more poo to eat 

[honeysmun]

Our cocker's Holly and Honey have been on Burns for over  4 years now and I have to say they are both fit and well and they both have nice shiny coats.
I think that dogs are just like people, what suits one, won't suit another. it is the case of when you find one that suit stay with it.

[supergirl]

As others have said earlier it does depend on the dog.  Misha did very well on Burns, but was very skinny and I doubled her daily allowance to keep weight on her. Roly did very badly on Burns which seemed to have a bit of a laxitive effect on him and he seemed to constantly need the loo especially at 3am!!!  I switched Roly to Chudleys which my neighbour was feeding and he was immediately better.  I did discover that Roly is sensitive to a lot of dog foods and treats so I have to be careful.  I have since switched them both to Arden Grange Lamb & Rice and both Roly and Misha do well on it.   I've found that I can feed practically anything to Misha & Lexi and they stay the same, very firm poos etc.  Ellie is doing ok on Arden Grange, but not as well as I would like, even chicken wings don't firm things up, so we're going to have a try of the CSJ lamb & rice.

Thankfully none of them are fussy eaters, just a bit of trial and error and remove all treats so that they're just having one food source so that you know when you've found the correct food.

[darby]

Just an update...toke Darby to the vets last week for a checkup. He is eating his food, going to the toilet OK and has got his energy levels back. The vet did some blood tests and Darby has made a big improvement. Darby still has some jaundice but the vet said it will take a few weeks for that to go. So it looks like he picked up some bug which caused the liver infection.

Thanks to be to God it was nothing serious. He gave me a fright!

PS In the meantime I have got my dogs off Burns and on to a regular food. I got an email from John Burns and he implied that overfeeding Darby may have caused the anal glands problem and the liver infection. Darby weighs 11.5kg and I was feeding him 130g/day! Burns told me this was too much and I should be feeding him 100g/day. My dogs are very slim - even underweight on Burns food. I have gone off the whole hollistic philosophy.