Recall - from not too bad to non-existent

[black taz]

cockertimeblues - you may have a point. Although i do training with them both, over the summer due to reasons mentioned earlier the level of training has dropped - what i cannot understand though it how quickly he has gone down hill to the point where he is the worst he has ever been this last week.  Obviously training today has been higher than normal but he seems to know the different between "training sessions" and the rest of the time when it comes to recall. 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

How old is he now?

You will get through it... Any dog with an ounce of spark about it (and we wouldn't want them any other way, right?) has to practice recall every single day - as you know, and it takes time for it to become solid and an instant behaviour. Dave has been my easiest dog by far, but even then he buggers me about on the odd day I had a horrendous walk with him a couple of weeks ago... I though I'd take just him out for 3 hours, we'd have a great time and explore somewhere new, just the two of us, no kids  EVERY single time I let him off lead he buggered off and was completely deaf to my whistle. He NEVER does this and bizarrely hasn't done it since... 

Normy was terrifying when I first got her and for a year and a half I lost her every single walk for up to 40 mins but she now has the most solid solid lightening fast recall that makes me cry sometimes - even at dusk when there are bun buns around and she goes totally out of sight, across 2 fields, she is back at high speed within seconds of me whistling and I never ever would have dreamed in a million years we'd have got to this stage...

Don't loose heart, keep practicing and up your reward every so often to keep him on his toes (roast chicken with lemon and garlic is always a winner here ).. with time you'll become the most interesting rewarding thing for him, but he probably has to get the other stuff out of his system too

[Sarah1985]

cockertimeblues - you may have a point. Although i do training with them both, over the summer due to reasons mentioned earlier the level of training has dropped - what i cannot understand though it how quickly he has gone down hill to the point where he is the worst he has ever been this last week.  Obviously training today has been higher than normal but he seems to know the different between "training sessions" and the rest of the time when it comes to recall. 

Id recomend try to make Every walk feel like a training session in Taz's mind. Thats why i always start every walk with a refresher on a few basics and then random practice recalls throughout the walk. It should be a training session with an occasional bit of free time rather than the other way round.  If they switch off from training mode on a walk that when things go downhill.

You can relax this later once Taz is responding to you better but for now Id be building recall training time into every single walk to really attempt to crack it

[Danni and Freya]

Just to let you know there are more of us with the same problem, Harvey is another   in this area. Today he ran up to four rottweilers on the beach, one of which was on the lead (couldn't see that to begin with), the owners glared as I tried to catch up and thier on lead dog tried to eat him. As he did finally recall one chased him back to me and had a good go at grabbing him too! To be fair I don't think dogs that aggressive should be on the very busy beach on a saturday afternoon with loads of kids and dogs. Not the point though I know, its so embarassing and we always have some sort of incident on walks which is so frustrating. He only does it when he sees a dog, otherwise hes fairly reliable. I am going to start whistle training with cheese to see if thats more reliable  

I found my boy was much  more difficult to recall compared with my girl as well. He seems much more adventrous and a bit to keen to say hello to absolutely everyone. I wonder if its a male thing...

Luckerly now Dexters older hes improved so hang in there. I saw the biggest improvemet when I started using "doggies" as a recall word to call both my two rather than Dexters name (i do still use his name occasionally). I suppose you use their name all the time but "doggies" is the command thats only used for recall. I suppose they why whistles can improve recall.

Thats really good to hear Sarah, I myself was thinking it was a boy thing but then I only had Freya to compare him to! I'm also really relieved to hear it does get better, only yesterday I was saying "I really hope this improves as i'm not sure how long I could cope!". I will try using a different word whilst I try to crack the whistle training, thats a really good idea and it makes sense. Thanks for the reassurance and advice x

[Top Barks]

When I go out with my dogs on a "walk" quite often i don't really walk that far in reality.
Most of my time is spent working with them and playing with them, keeping them close rewarding them for checking in and really as much as possible making myself the  hub of all activity going on.
Dogs need to see us as very valuable and the way to that is control what the dog wants in all environments.
I think the strength of my recall is not only founded on the actual training of the recall its self but also the fact i am very very very valuable to be around when out.

[Sheepscheeks]

When I go out with my dogs on a "walk" quite often i don't really walk that far in reality.
Most of my time is spent working with them and playing with them, keeping them close rewarding them for checking in and really as much as possible making myself the  hub of all activity going on.
Dogs need to see us as very valuable and the way to that is control what the dog wants in all environments.
I think the strength of my recall is not only founded on the actual training of the recall its self but also the fact i am very very very valuable to be around when out.

Oh Mark, you do put us all to shame! Of course you are so absolutely right but it is so, so hard when in the morning the walk needs to tire Freddie out so he will be relaxed when I go to work. I have tried getting him interested in a squeaky tennis ball - he plays with it in the garden and almost brings it back for a treat but I have taken it out on walks and thrown it - he just ignores it. What is the best thing to do to make yourself interesting to a dog? I do recall frequently, but not too often, and when he checks in without being recalled. I also give him a really big fuss once in a while as per your recall training thread. Sometimes, though, he just finds a scent, nose goes down, tail wagging furiously and he is off. He does return eventually - I haven't lost him yet - but he doesn't respond to my recall. I know I shouldn't recall more than once but if he has bombed off out of sight - I worry he won't know where I am so call him now and then to give him a bearing to work on? Also with the long line - should I be letting it trail on the ground or have hold of the end of it? I am endlessly treading on it by accident and getting tangled up as Freddie darts all over the place. Sorry, I have hijacked the thread!

[Black Red + Yellow]

When I go out with my dogs on a "walk" quite often i don't really walk that far in reality.
Most of my time is spent working with them and playing with them, keeping them close rewarding them for checking in and really as much as possible making myself the  hub of all activity going on.
Dogs need to see us as very valuable and the way to that is control what the dog wants in all environments.
I think the strength of my recall is not only founded on the actual training of the recall its self but also the fact i am very very very valuable to be around when out.

Such good good advice - this is exactly how our trainer has taught us to be with our lot, there should be no one else that matters in your dog's world more than you and how you achieve this doesn't matter.....be noisy, be silly, carry smelly food...my hubby has developed a really high voice in the last few years - he has a brilliant 'good boy' than can apparently be heard on all the shoots:005:

I'm not saying my lot are perfect but they're a good example of dogs that have been taught that being with us is much more rewarding than with anyone else.

A sad example at the moment is a couple up our park who recently got a black lab - she is now 8 months old and basically does what she wants.  The owners are full of frustration and blame the dog.....they have no concept of giving her any motivation to be with them at all....no balls, no tuggy ropes, no treats, their monotone voices drive me crazy.  She came over to talk to us about it (again), ranting and raving - they truly believe dogs are just born knowing how to recall or walk to heel.  She readily admitted she hates walking the dog and has no pleasure in it. I asked the other day if she was food motivated and the answer was yes sometimes....I suggested a tube of cream cheese...smelly and a high reward......know what the owner's reply was......'what exactly is that supposed to do then?'

I can only say follow Mark's advice.....we're not trainers by any stretch but I am chuffed to be able to say our dogs are under good control...we've spent the whole of the summer trying to give tips to the owners of this lovely lab and I am so saddened and quite frustrated with them

[Emma xx]

Alfie's recall has been slipping lately and i came across that thread of Top Bark's. I ordered a whistle (really wanted a pink one but my dad wouldnt let me ) and have started training him. So far, so good. Were on the 'garden' stage now and he is responding really well to it. I really want his recall to be perfect rather than hit and miss like it has been so hopefully this method will work.
Good luck xxx

[Top Barks]

Just some of the stuff i do on "walks"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5au3M1AqoY

Sometimes we don't go any further than the van for me attention has to happen before the walk in order for it to continue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPoB7PjVp2o

We always try and have fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9L8WYU9Efg

[black taz]

thanks Top Barks -  i have just watched one of your videos (what a fantastic area to walk in).  I think had it in my mind that training was something i wanted to do rather than what the dogs want to do on a walk, but your video shows that the dogs really enjoy it.  I will try and keep the training more upbeat but go back to your post of whistle training going right back to basics. 

do you reward every time you click, or do they just accept the click as a reward now?

thanks

[Sheepscheeks]

I have watched these videos before in awe of what you do with your dogs, Mark. I guess I have got to believe it is possible to have that relationship with Freddie and I have got to want to do it 100% of the time. Whilst out today he ran out of the Millenium wood we go to as he saw some people walk past. I called him and he came back straight away. He got loads of praise for that as there are horses in fields nearby and we have had an incident with him in a field of horses before! I also did some training and threw some treats in the grass in the stone circle for him to find. He wasn't brilliant later on when he was playing with other dogs but ultimately he did come back to me when I ran in the opposite direction squeaking Fred Fred Fred!

[Top Barks]

the clicker is only used when teaching the dog what you want it to do to earn a reward.
Once the dog is offering a behaviour like checking in frequently then i fade the clicker.
In answer to your question do i reward if I click then the answer is yes, but remember a reward can be all sorts of things, you just have to figure out what your dog wants and enjoys.

[Danni and Freya]

Top Barks you and your dogs are an inspiration to me, I hope with time and effort we get somewhere close to what you and your dogs are. You make me want to get out and train harder! Starting the whistle training tomorrow hoping it helps with Harveys bogging off 

[black taz]

What a difference a bit of advice makes (and probably luck  ).  Took the dogs to the park/fields in the next village and as OH was with me decided to give Taz the benefit of the doubt and let him off (it is fairly safe).

I started them off in a sit before releasing them, played ball with them both, with lots of recall, and we had a really good walk.  At one point a horse ran by us in the next field, both of them went to go to see what it was, i recalled and Taz was actually the first one back .  Not going to let him lull me into a false sense of security though - and recall training is going to be high on the agenda for ever!  Thing is, at the end of the walk he seemed so much more happier as well.

thanks for all your advise

[Sheepscheeks]

What a difference a bit of advice makes (and probably luck  ).  Took the dogs to the park/fields in the next village and as OH was with me decided to give Taz the benefit of the doubt and let him off (it is fairly safe).

I started them off in a sit before releasing them, played ball with them both, with lots of recall, and we had a really good walk.  At one point a horse ran by us in the next field, both of them went to go to see what it was, i recalled and Taz was actually the first one back .  Not going to let him lull me into a false sense of security though - and recall training is going to be high on the agenda for ever!  Thing is, at the end of the walk he seemed so much more happier as well.

thanks for all your advise

I too have upped my interaction with Freddie. There is a nice stone circle in the millenium wood where I stop to do some training and throw tuna bread in the grass. He ran out of the gap in the fence again this afternoon but came back straight away when I recalled him.  Like black taz, though, I don't think I will EVER take his recall for granted!