Opinions please - for or against!

[sands]

Coda is due into season over the next few weeks and we have decided to breed from her. 

Even although we have investigated the pros and cons inside out there are a few things I would like to ask from my fellow COL members simply because I would like their personal views 

I would like your opinions on three different things:-

1. To give or not to give the CH vaccine.
2. To give or not to give Vit E.
3. Does it help the bitch in whelp if she has been given Raspberry Leaf.

These are all topics I have read up on but, as I said, I would just like some persoal opinions   

Thanks everyone 

[lindseyp]

 Sorry hun  - don't want to rain on your parade but please make sure you take every eventuality into your consideration & all the ones you could never imagine happening too 

I know two different breeders with litters the past two months -
 1st had 8 show type pups from text book whelp ..... one faded shortly after being born & two were swimmers & died too 

2nd breeder of working cockers had 5 pups from a bitch who needed emergency cesarean - 3 pups died, bitch was really poorly (but doing OK now  ) & they had to hand rear pups for 1st week until mum was well enough to take over .

Complications before, during & after breeding are far more common place than you could ever imagine & IMO, should be left to those who know what they are doing, as the upset you may possibly go through is one of the worst experiences you could imagine.

The ultimate question is, is Coda's life worth the risk of having a litter of pups & how upset would you be if something went wrong to Coda or the pups?

I'm sure I sound hard & quite rude but I honestly wouldn't want you to go through the trauma of the sadder side of breeding 

If you do go through with your plans, I wish you all the very best & hope all goes well for Coda & her pups & your experience is nothing but joyful 

[Brimbeck(Dyllan)]

I'm sure you will have read this -
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=3428.msg1313409#new

[JulieNicholds]

In answer to your questions:-
- I didn't vaccinate against CH - gave it an awful lot of thought after a friend lost a litter from fading puppy - but on speaking to my vet decided against it. As a practice covering a large proportion of Warwickshire they very rarely gave the vaccination and had no records of breeders having encountered problems.
- I didn't give Vit E but did give calcium tablets every day for two weeks prior and until the tub ran out about 2 weeks ago. I also put her on the higher protein food that the pups were eventually weaned onto.  Also for 3 weeks prior to the birth she had daily doses of liquid wormer.
- No experience of raspberry leaf but fortunately, Bliss whelped entirely on her own with me just sitting beside the whelping box in case she needed me.  She didn't make a sound during the entire whelp but was very obviously distressed and this is very difficult to witness, its a fine line between reassuring her and her picking up on your increasing panic that everything going OK. Once the first little chap arrived instinct kicked in and she was fine but I didn't leave her side for 9 hours apart from calls of nature and raiding the biscuit tin!

My bible before, during and after the mating, pregnancy, whelping, weaning has been the Book of The Bitch which I know is highly rated on this forum.

Having a litter does require an awful of thought & consideration, sleepness nights, worry and upfront expense - we have been very fortunate, I'm sure you will make the right decision for Coda and yourself. At least you are asking the questions before hand.

[Holly2009]

Find a good stud owner they will go through 'everything' with you!

[LynneB]

First question...Has Coda had all the health tests? Then has the sire had all the health tests?

Breeding is very stressful for the bitch and you. Are you absolutely sure that you want to go through this? Do you have good homes for all the puppies and if not can you afford to keep the ones that are left? For the first time ever I have been left with a puppy (not a cocker), she is now 14 weeks, we are now going to keep her of course but she was reserved 4 times and each time the people gave back word. There is nothing wrong with her but from expreience I have found that only about 20% of enquiries are genuine.

I have used the CHV vaccine and also have girls whelp without it, no difference, all pups well.

I have not used Raspberry leaf so no experience of that. High protein puppy food from 6th week and throughout feeding.

Good lick if you decide to go ahead but please do not breed to make money (it doesn't happen) or just for the sake of it. It really is not worth the upset.

[Jane S]

Find a good stud owner they will go through 'everything' with you!

Yes or an experienced breeding mentor/friend who you can call on at any time day or night (it's often night)

Re the Herpes vaccine, we have used it on some bitches and not on others - I would use it if a bitch had had a problem with small litter size, fading puppies in a previous litter but not necessarily routinely.

I don't give Vit E and would never give calcium tablets prior to whelping. Sorry Julie but it's now thought to be quite dangerous to do this and could lead to the bitch developing eclampsia (http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/80304.htm)
Supplementing with calcium after whelping is fine but not during pregnancy (you were lucky!)

Don't use raspberry leaf sorry so can't comment on that. I do start giving folic acid from the time a bitch comes in season - it's thought to reduce the risk of cleft palates.

[Pudding]

and it dose cost up wards of £2000.00 for a c- section if she needs one
and that's not covered by insurance

[Holly2009]

I do start giving folic acid from the time a bitch comes in season - it's thought to reduce the risk of cleft palates.

We were also told folic acid helps reduce this risk of males retaining testicles?

It's definitely a good idea to find someone that's bred for a few years, lots of horror stories & lots of good experience, some things you'd never think about & someone you can go to to settle your mind when you have silly questions  

[sands]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies all of which are very much appreciated   


Thank goodness for COL is all I can say 

[Cayley]

We have just come off the back of planning a litter for year and then having a singleton which we hand reared for 2 weeks then lost. If you are doing this as a one off to get another pet it is not worth it.