Entire dog (Freddie) meets in season bitch off lead in trees!!!

[Sheepscheeks]

Freddie is almost 3, entire. I meet a lady quite often who has 3 female dogs, 2 long haired lurcher types and a black lab. Last week we met as we entered the wood, she was with her mum and her mum's long haired daschund (male). The dasch growled at Freddie (not unusual) and the mum said "Oh it's because she's in season" referring to one of the lurchers. Freddie was paying the bitch's hind quarters a lot of attention. Anyway, blow me down but she let the in season bitch off lead and all 3 ran off into the trees! She then said to me "Freddie hasn't been done has he?" to which I replied "No". She was trying to recall her dog, Freddie was ignoring me (surprise, surprise!) and I said when I got him we would head out of the woods to avoid an odd litter of puppies. After a few mins, the lurcher re-appeared and I grabbed Freddie and practically dragged him out of the woods. She didn't think a mating would have occurred in such a short time and, also, that her bitch wasn't ready as she wasn't standing still for Freddie. I was left feeling a bit cross that WE had to leave the woods but I didn't want to cause problems. Anyway next day we were in the middle of our walk in the woods when the same bunch appeared. The owner did put her in season bitch back on the lead but when she had snapped at Freddie a few times when he sniffed her rear she said "oh, she's not ready" and let her off again. I thought to myself that she was taking a risk but I really didn't see why I should have to leave the woods again. It was 8.30am in a very popular dog walking area. I just wondered what the etiquette should be? I know she has every right to not have her bitch neutered as I have every right not to have Freddie done but, what if a mating had occurred in the trees? ...

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

Each party has a responsibility to stop a mating from occurring, but the owner of an in-season bitch should definitely keep her away from opportunities (ie. not allow her off-lead at all). Maybe the woman actually secretly wants to mate her bitch... Sounds pretty irresponsible to let her dog off-lead saying "she's not ready" as if she knows this for sure!
Unfortunately for you it seems as if you either have to keep your dog away or tell her again that you think it's unacceptable to have an in-season bitch off-lead.

[Sheepscheeks]

Yes, I do see I have a responsibility too. How do I stand, though, if she appears when we are mid-walk, Freddie runs off with her bitch into the trees and becomes deaf to my recall in his state of excitement?

[piph]

Yes, I do see I have a responsibility too. How do I stand, though, if she appears when we are mid-walk, Freddie runs off with her bitch into the trees and becomes deaf to my recall in his state of excitement?

If it happens again, why don't you ask her what her reaction would be if Freddie did impregnate her bitch, and see what she says.  If she says she'd be horrified, then tell her in no uncertain terms to keep her bitch on the lead then.  And I'd certainly put Freddie on his lead if you saw her in the distance and walk the other way!

[Emilyoliver]

This woman is being incredibly irresponsible as well as plain inconsiderate. Apart from the chance of a random mating, her in season bitch running free in a popular dog walking area has the potential to cause a nasty fight amongst male dogs who may come across her. So infuriating 

[Sheepscheeks]

And I'd certainly put Freddie on his lead if you saw her in the distance and walk the other way!

If I see her I will but, in the woods, Freddie doesn't stay next to me and her dogs run ahead of her so they meet before I can see them. The only thing I can do is avoid the woods at that time in the morning but I am cross that I will have to do that, tbh. 

[piph]

And I'd certainly put Freddie on his lead if you saw her in the distance and walk the other way!

If I see her I will but, in the woods, Freddie doesn't stay next to me and her dogs run ahead of her so they meet before I can see them. The only thing I can do is avoid the woods at that time in the morning but I am cross that I will have to do that, tbh. 

I totally agree, but, better safe than sorry, I say - after all it won't be for very long, and if it saves you hassle then it's all worth it.

[Sheepscheeks]

Went later today with two friends and she was there again! I grabbed Fred and put him on his lead and when I caught up with her I said "You are going to get some interesting puppies one day!" - she just gave a nervous laugh! Both my friends agreed she is being irresponsible. The bitch did actually turn on Freddie today just as I was putting his lead on - quite nasty but he backed off straight away (plus had me on the end of his lead). I am just not going there for 2 weeks in the mornings. Feel very cross that I am having to avoid somewhere that Freddie and I love but, without actually having an argument with her, don't know what to do.

[piph]

If you've decided not to go back for 2 weeks, then I shouldn't worry any more.  But if you do want to go back then I think you'll probably have to confront her and tell her that she's being unreasonable to allow her bitch of the lead at this time, and also unreasonable to expect other dog walkers with an entire male to stay away. 

[Neon]

Feel very cross that I am having to avoid somewhere that Freddie and I love but, without actually having an argument with her, don't know what to do.

Totally understand but try to see it this way - Freddie loves the wood but if he keeps going there and encountering the in season bitch, he's not going to be enjoying the wood anyway.  He'll only be interested in the bitch (naturally).  Sounds like you have to be the one to take action, so it would be best to keep him away.  It's not for long really.

I also think this woman is going out of her way to get her bitch pregnant so I really think for your's and Freddie's sakes, it's best to keep well away from them all, for now anyway.

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

I also think this woman is going out of her way to get her bitch pregnant so I really think for your's and Freddie's sakes, it's best to keep well away from them all, for now anyway.

Definitely sounds like that to me; otherwise she'd keep her dog on the lead and out of the way of male dogs. She just wants to save the stud fees and get some nice little cocker/lurcher crosses that she can sell for £500+ each!

[Catie74]

I also see it as both owners responsibility to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.  I have both male and female cockers.  Archie has been neutered, and Willow who I rescued in April in currently on the operating theatre as I type.  She is in season at the moment having last been in season in April so earlier than anticipated.  I have kept her on lead at all times when in season but did not walk her out at the optimum time of her season.  I also warned all dog owners in passing that she was in season.  I would then expect a owner of a male entire dog to pop their dog on lead too until we were well out of sight.  Most owners did this when I said she was in season. 

[Sheepscheeks]

I also see it as both owners responsibility to avoid an unwanted pregnancy... I would then expect a owner of a male entire dog to pop their dog on lead too until we were well out of sight.  Most owners did this when I said she was in season. 

Yes, I see it as both owners' responsibility too - once I knew her bitch was in season, I put Fred on lead but my problem is that you can't see people coming in the woods and with her bitch off lead, Fred can obviously smell her and get to her before I can if I don't see her. As I have said, I am just avoiding the area for another 2 weeks.