Size Matters!!!!!

[Rowan Liver Roan]

Recently I posted about Rowan being terrified of a cat sitting on our exterior window sill. I've also posted about her really poor eyesight. Well tonight poor Rowan is curled up on my lap sticking to me like Velcro after a wee encounter on her walk tonight. Gorgeous Goldendoodle pup (1yr old) was off lead in front of us wagging tail and greeting and playing with everybody it met. All owners waved, signalled and went seperate ways. Later we saw him coming, bounding and wagging his tail like the daft big puppy he is. Well, Rowan didn't see him til he was right at us and starts screaming as if he's attacking her. We are holding her close as she's trying to climb up on us screaming the whole time, the other owners ran up and were so apologetic but to be honest their pup did nothing wrong. They were upset thinking that with the noise she was making he must have done something. They have Rowan a few treats and she stopped screaming but clearly wanted away. She's not like that with my sisters Cav King Charles, in fact she rolls, growls and plays with him 24/7 and can tolerate all those little Lhasa apsos, etc (even though they all yap at her), but anything bigger - not a chance! Last week she met my aunt's latest rescue Great Dane and actually squeeled and climbed up inside my dad's jumper and wouldn't come out til it was away! Size definately seems to matter!

[JennyBee]

Guess who else is like this . Brodie doesn't like big dogs. In fact, they terrify her. She doesn't climb up your leg, but good grief can she scream. Normally she is fine (but a little barky), if they are in the distance or don't come near, and she is also great with them offlead. Her greatest fear is when she is on lead and they run up to her at full speed and then won't leave her alone. The typical 'he just wants to say hi' scenario. Labs, retrievers and similar types seem to be the ones she fears the most.

However, just to muddy the waters... Guess what her best friend is:



 

[*Marie*]

Bracken seems fine with any dogs, he has been playing rough & tumbles with a labrador and german shepherds!

[Rowan Liver Roan]

Oh JennyBee, I just laughed out loud when I read your post. It just had to be! And just when you think you've got them sussed out they decide to be pals with a golden retriever!!!! Smashing photo of Brodie too - they look (and behave) identically! Got to just love them 

[JennyBee]

It is really odd - I was very apprehensive when I first heard my neighbours had got a retriever - I needn't have worried! The moment they met they clicked immediately. They are very, very close - never seen anything like it! Considering she can't stand big dogs leaping all over her, she loves to play rough with Beau. And guess who wins

They are so alike, aren't they? It's funny, Brodie's sister is much more confident and doesn't bat an eyelid at big dogs. I think Brodie had one or two scary experiences when she was a pup (once she got crowded by about five collies) and it really frightened her, poor girl

[Helen]

I really would be seeking behavioural help with this as her fear may magnify in time and turn into fear aggression      I don't think comforting her is doing her any good as it will reinforce her fear that something is wrong.

As this is definitely a behavioural issue I will move it to that board 

[Rowan Liver Roan]

Helen, that's a scary thought and to be honest something that (naively) never crossed my mind. The idea of Rowan showing any kind of aggression is so alien to me - she's never guarded, barked, reacted or even been grumpy ever ever. She's the happiest sweetest gentlest cocker that's ever lived (I'm biased I know  ) and the thought of that has just stunned me. I had put it down to her extremely poor eyesight and the fright of something big without warning launching themselves at her. She's not like this with small dogs or children (she's regularly under a scrum of children who descend on her the minute we go out for her walks and she's in 7th heaven with them). She's got the vet this week so will speak to her re this and the fact that although the hospital say up to 50% vision in one eye and 90% in the other I don't think she can see more than a few metres in front of her. Oh dear, food for thought now 

[Helen]

I'm not saying at all this could happen but she has a long life in front of her with lots more big dogs to meet - if you and she have some coping methods then I think it would really help you all. 

It can't be nice for her being scared 

[Top Barks]

Helen, reinforcing fear is a bit of a myth that has been blown out the water. Personally I would comfort a fearful dog 

[JennyBee]

Helen, reinforcing fear is a bit of a myth that has been blown out the water. Personally I would comfort a fearful dog 

This is something that I have been very glad to read recently, as I have always felt it wasn't right. There have been situations with Brodie where I thought she would cope better if I was to comfort her, but hated to think that I was reinforcing it in any way as that's what everything I had previously read had said.

[Helen]

Helen, reinforcing fear is a bit of a myth that has been blown out the water. Personally I would comfort a fearful dog 

Fair enough - depends on what you consider is reinforcing fear though doesn't it and to what extent. There are lots of owners who pre-empt what may or may not be a scary situation and make the dog more fearful. I agree with calmly comforting a dog in a manner that doesn't raise its fear levels even more.

If my recommendation to seek a behaviourist is wrong then it would be helpful to offer some alternative advice which you think is correct

[Emilyoliver]

Helen, that's a scary thought and to be honest something that (naively) never crossed my mind. The idea of Rowan showing any kind of aggression is so alien to me - she's never guarded, barked, reacted or even been grumpy ever ever. She's the happiest sweetest gentlest cocker that's ever lived (I'm biased I know  ) and the thought of that has just stunned me. I had put it down to her extremely poor eyesight and the fright of something big without warning launching themselves at her. She's not like this with small dogs or children (she's regularly under a scrum of children who descend on her the minute we go out for her walks and she's in 7th heaven with them). She's got the vet this week so will speak to her re this and the fact that although the hospital say up to 50% vision in one eye and 90% in the other I don't think she can see more than a few metres in front of her. Oh dear, food for thought now 

I wouldn't panic just yet.  Your explanation of why you think she reacted the way she did sounds reasonable, especially taking her eye sight into account. My puppy screamed the other day when an, albeit friendly, but huge GSD came bowling over to say 'hi'.  Pip didn't see him until he was almost on top of him as he was facing the opposite direction, and he obviously got a fright.  He was fine once he worked out he wasn't about to be eaten.  He spent yesterday morning playing with a variety of spaniels at training yesterday.  So no harm done, and yes - size does seem to matter!!

[Top Barks]

Helen, as you know I don't really advise on behaviour cases on the Internet any more and I wholeheartedly agree with your recommendation to the op for a behaviourist. Best practice of course is not to put your dog in situations it finds fearful in the first place, or remove the dog from the stimulus it finds fearful as soon as possible. A programme of  controlled desensitisation and counter conditioning should be then employed. When fearful the dog is acting with emotion so  any learning is difficult which is why we try reinforce a behaviour when the dog is under threshold. If the dog is over threshold and acting in this state it is almost impossible to reinforce anything as the dog is not in a place where learning can take place.

[Top Barks]

Good informative article on the subject by Patricia McConnell here
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/you-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms

[Rowan Liver Roan]

Thanks everybody for all the advice. When it happened I comforted Rowan and reassured her but then went over and had a play with the Goldendoodle, making a great big loud fuss of it hoping Rowan would see it wasn't anything to be afraid of. The other owners made a fuss of Rowan and gave her treats (always works)! Like has been said once she realised she wasn't going to be eaten she calmed a bit (can't say she came round, but from a distance she could cope). It's something I'll keep an eye on with her. Thanks everybody.