New and advice please

[Charlie Pup]

I have a 20 week old working black cocker called Charlie who has been with us now for 8 weeks.  I was recommended this forum by other cocker owners as a great way to get specific advice on the cheeky little breed! I am after some suggestions on games to mentally tire him out and also tips for getting him to listen outside.

Inside the house he will happily do the sit command, a jumpy lie down (which is very funny) knows bed but has selective hearing depending on if he wants to go to bed or not, knows get down, again selective hearing here and I am trying to work on settle.  He sleeps in a crate in the living room from just gone midnight till around 8.00 - 8.30 without a whimper.

When we first got him I did not have much of a dog/life balance   What I mean by this is if I am not in the same room as him when he is out of his crate during the day, he will cry until I come back, this includes simply stepping out to make a cup of tea or snack or something.  Before christmas every time I wanted to do something which was going to take more than 5 minutes I would have to put him back in his crate, so he was out for 2 hours, in for 2 hours and so on until the evening time.  Since New Year I am trying to spend longer out of the room with him and get him to play with his toys or kong or rest without me having to be with him. This is going okay so far but he is still uber restless and if he cannot see me he cries.   I think it would help if I could spend at least 10-15 minutes 4 or 5 times a day interactively playing with him and then leave him.  What indoor interactive games can I play which will mentally stimulate him and help to tire him out? 

When he is going out for a walk he pulls terribly on the lead, he first had a metal lead attached to his collar (chewed anything else) but I was concerned this was making the collar rub against his neck (was looking sore). I then put him on a harness which works okay but doesn't correct his pulling.  And now he is on a leather lead which just pops round the neck, this I bought from his trainer.  Its quite frightening walking him as he gets so excited about anything and everything and he's quite a strong pup already, definitely going to be on the taller sider for a cocker and I hate hearing him rasp because he is pulling so much.

Also when we are out he has stopped listening to me.  I can no longer get him to sit on a walk unless I have a treat in my hand let alone teaching heal and proper lead walking.

He has not been off lead yet with me, once with me and the trainer but he is uber confident outdoors (not like inside) that he can't hear me at all so I need to be able to get him to listen before I am willing to risk this!

Also it is a working dog trainer that I am using, one who had been recommended to me.  Personally I think he is good despite not getting anywhere yet, but he is only 20 weeks and we have only had two sessions, and I think I am a slow learner!   Now on the other forum I was on it was mentioned to make sure the trainer is not too harsh, what is too harsh?

He has currently just calmed down and is sat on the arm of the sofa watching TV!

Thanks for any advice you can give

[Emilyoliver]

Firstly – welcome and congratulations on your new puppy 

In answer to some of your questions – some suggestions.

You will find lots of fun things to teach Charlie indoors and keep his brain occupied - just by having a look on the web.  Google ‘puppy clicker training’ or similar.  Kikopup is great (think you have seen these recommendations on the other thread).  You don’t necessarily need a clicker – you can use a marker word such as ‘yes’ instead.

What do you do at training sessions?  Is your trainer a gundog trainer?  If so he should be going over the basics as far as discipline is concerned – teaching sit, stay and recall, as these are vital first steps in the training. 

Do you do any fun retrieves?  These are great for improving puppy’s focus on you during walks.  Do you play with toys/ ball with Charlie when you’re out?  Personally I would suggest you take him to a safe open area – a field perhaps - and attach a long line to his harness and practice recall as well as sit, etc.  Also play lots of games – run away from him so he has to follow you and pay attention.  Throw a ball for him to fetch.  And keep the sessions very short so he doesn’t get bored.  I would focus on this interaction to build your bond with him as it sounds like he thinks going out means he can just ignore you.  He needs to learn that time out of the house is fun – but on your terms.

I would also ask the trainer about these issues as dog training and basics like recall and focus are essential if you want to progress.  He should have some useful advice.

As for him wanting to follow you everywhere – well that is a cocker-thing…  My 3 follow me absolutely everywhere in the house.  If I need to do something without their ‘help’ I put them in the kitchen behind the stair gate.  My 9 year old dog whines very pathetically for the time he is ‘incarcerated’ (I don’t do it very often).  However, there is nothing wrong with enforcing some kind of routine where he is on his own sometimes.  But it will be up to you to enforce this.  If he settles better on his own in his crate for an hour or so then carry on doing this.  And perhaps leave him with a stuffed kong.  You have the right idea about playing/ training with him to tire him prior to leaving him.  I do this as part of my daily routine with my dogs as I work.  So first thing we go walking/ training.  Thereafter, I leave them with kongs and leave for work.  They are used to the routine and it works well.

Hope a bit of that helps.  Even if it doesn't - remember to enjoy your puppy 

[Murphys Law]

Regarding the 'harsh' trainer issue.

Murphy went to a trainer last week. One highly recommended who trains cockers for the police and customs as sniffer dogs.

He kneed Murphy to stop him jumping up. He yanked hard on the lead to stop him pulling and he grabbed him round the snout to stop him biting. That is my definition of harsh and it might work but I will not be using those methods myself.

It's no good having a well behaved dog that's scared stiff of you.

[Charlie Pup]

He doesn't knee him and he does fuss him but he does use the lead to control staying sat and warned me it might seem harsh. His words were we will try something a little harsher but I am not going to push it because he's only a puppy and I don't want to scare him, which to be fair he didn't. 

I don't throw anything whilst we are out at the moment, I have tried but all that was happening was he was jumping and getting uncontrollably excited and ignoring what I had thrown. Taking a step back I don't think I am interacting with him enough whilst out to make him realise that the fun happens around me!, He knows it does at home which is why he gets so excited when I walk in the room. Actually this was what the trainer told me to do but I haven't yet as the sit went down hill and now with the pulling its a 'me trying to control Charlie' walk.

Right, step back and time to make walks fun first.

On the in house training, I am going to try kikopup I think, something new and exciting for both of us

He really is a good puppy in 90% of areas, I just need to learn how to teach him

[HBP]

Kongs and puzzle balls you can stuff with treats and kibble are good for interactive play. "Hide and seek" is a brilliant one for tiring them out, try hiding bits of kibble around the room. My pup is obsessed with blankets so another thing I do is knot treats or kibble up in the blanket, he will spend ages unknotting it to get to them!  Natural chews like cow ears or pizzle sticks are good for keeping them quiet, if you want to do something in the same room as them but don't want them to get "involved" with it  , also probably less calorific than treats.

Two excellent books I read countless times before we got our puppy were: Gwen Bailey's Perfect Puppy and Its Me or the Dog by Victoria Stilwell. They have loads of training tips, and both approach things from a slightly different angle, so if one way doesn't work for you, the other way might.

Personally (although I'm no expert) I would have started letting him off lead earlier - then you have the fact that they still want to be around you constantly on your side for successful recall! We let our pup off lead for the first time at 11 weeks, took him to a quiet spot in the park with a couple of friends for back up- it was terrifying I admit!! But he didn't particularly want to wander too far at that age, so we recalled him easily enough, made an unholy fuss of him and he got mega treats and he very quickly learned. Is there somewhere quiet you can go and let him off? Maybe with a long line if you're really worried about him shooting off? Practice shouting him around the house and rewarding him for coming, or in from the garden, or call him for his dinner! They soon cotton on 

Good luck x

[black taz]

Look at the sticky on this site on whistle recall - follow it to the letter, it will help with recall if you follow it.  I always let my pups off as soon as they are allowed out on walks, but given his lack of response to you on basic commands I wouldn't risk it now u til you have fully recall trained him.

He sounds very much like my show cocker, who was a very stubborn pup.  You need to find out what holds his focus on you. 

As regards to him being away from you, what is the problem with him having access to you most of the time, my dogs are always around us when we are at home. 

Walking you just need to stick with it.  It does take some dogs longer than others to get the hang of it.  I suggest you use a harness though, it will prevent the horrible rasping noise when he does pull.  On walks I suggest you buy a longline (only use with a harness) and practice recall with him then.

Do you have a local obedience class you can go to rather than the gundog trainer for now, that will help with the basics. 

Be very careful with the trainer and do not tolerate any harsh handling. 

Try and build you relationship with him.  Reward calm behaviour.

[Charlie Pup]

Thank you for the tips and I'll definitely buy the books. He wasn't allowed out until 16 weeks old so 4 weeks now because he had a poorly tummy and giardia so the vet delayed his injections. Definitely would have let him off earlier but he's so confident now. I will try his harness tomorrow with a long line and ball, hoping this will make for a more enjoyable session.

He doesn't have access to the whole house as we were getting him and the cat used to one another. We were going to remove the room divider separating the living room and dining room after taking the Christmas tree down but this has been hindered because I have today picked the cat up from a weeks stay in hospital and I can't afford him getting hurt / stressed. The cat has to stay in for two weeks and has further tests on Friday. After he can start going out again I will remove the barrier and just get a stair gate.